KI Guy Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Geauga Lake's Big Dipper classic wooden roller coaster still stands on a vacant lot. I know that it would make little financial sense, but I'd like to see Cedar Fair purchase the ride and give it a new life at CP, KI or Michigan's Adventure. It would be a very Knoebel-like move, but I'm sure it could be done. It bothers me to hear of one of the world's oldest roller coasters rotting away. I think it works fit in best at CP given its rich history, that is if they can find enough room for it. If KI were to get it I it world be fascinating to have a roller coaster that is over twice as old a the park. I know it probably will never happen, but I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBEASTunchained Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I've always been the kind of person that believes in restoring and refurbishing standing-but-not-operating wooden coasters. To this day, I still respect Knoebels and their decision to bring Phoenix to the park. I'm not sure what kind of condition the Big Dipper is in, but last I heard, a whole section of track was missing. ...I can say one thing though.....and that is that If any of the 3 parks that you mentioned got Big Dipper, I would recommend that the park be Kings Island, for multiple reasons. Overall it would be GREAT to have to the Big Dipper at Kings Island, but quite frankly, I just don't see it happening, especially with the shape that the ride is in. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovinMeSomeBanshee Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 According to Wikipedia, the current owners placed it on eBay with a starting price of $9500 and a Buy-It-Now price of $65,000 and it still didn't sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoor Man Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 It wouldn't be the same experience for several reasons: 1) lots of rotted wood = new boards. 2) ride experience would need upgraded to 2014 (err.. 2015 code)- the ride experience while at an operating GL could have been grandfathered in (within reason). Unfortunately, the 800lb elephant in the room is the fact that sooner or later it will need to come down; I'm surprised that it hasn't attracted more vandals and been more of a liability risk. My thought is that to attract a buyer... CF is going to have to level the property entirely and maybe "plant grass" in it for a year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcgoble3 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Do we even know for certain who the current owners are? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyroKinesis Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Don't know where you would fit it in at Cedar Point. Unlike new rides that get designed for the space left there, this was designed for the space at Geauga Lake, so unless you just plop it in the parking lot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhyano Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I think it should go to Kings Island because of it would be a needed family ride 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoor Man Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Do we even know for certain who the current owners are? Not exactly. In 2010 a set of clowns tried to make an advance. The roster: 1) an (undisclosed aged)- edit... year old from New Zealand 2) 19 year old female college student from Dayton (unrelated to the above, but met in an online coaster chatroom) 3) said 19 year old's boyfriend. The article says that the 85 year old bought the coaster. It on TV and internet, must be right.... View the video and about 30-seconds into it you get a glimpse of #'s 2&3. If I'm wanting to be taken seriously, I would have left the baggy sweat suit at home and gone with some khaki's and a polo shirt.... maybe had my boyfriend get a haircut. http://archive.wkyc.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=153937 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcgoble3 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Two notes on that article: 1. First, the coaster is what's 85 years old according to the article, not Garmonsway. I've met Garmonsway at HoliWood Nights last year, I think, and IIRC he's about the same age as the other two. 2. Second, the woman and her boyfriend (now married) are KICers, though they don't post much on here anymore. I do have them on Facebook, so I'll point them to this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoor Man Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 You are correct- I wrote that rather hastily between bites for a late lunch after my Mac crashed twice. I got my lines crossed- I believe he (Harold) was 25 at the time but had 85 stuck in my head; and even that number may be off... it's been 4 years. The term "clown" may have been a bit pointed- but go ahead, point the thread out to them. They may have received more credible attention if they hadn't looked like college students on a road trip. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcgoble3 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Kat says that she does not know who currently owns it, and doesn't want to get involved any further. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KI Guy Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 Don't know where you would fit it in at Cedar Point. Unlike new rides that get designed for the space left there, this was designed for the space at Geauga Lake, so unless you just plop it in the parking lot... ^All that is needed: Devarious, what Pyro said makes good sense. He is saying that he is not sure if there is a Big Dipper-shaped space available at Cedar Point. Cedar Point has space like you said, but they just have to be creative with it when adding new attractions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoor Man Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Best guess is that 4 years ago, Cedar Fair probably didn't care who bought it or where the money came from- just get it off the lot. Sort of surprised it hasn't been demolished yet.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedevariouseffect Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 There is space...Trust me.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medford Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I just looked at a POV for the first time; as far as one can tell from a POV it looks like a fun woodie. Lots of bunny hills and I"m guessing a good amount of ejector air time; definitely worth taking a ride on. I don't know how a relocation of a wooden coaster would work exactly, let alone one that has been standing neglected for as long as that ride has been neglected, but once you take it appart, by the time you go back to reassembling it, I would think you'd be using a ton of new pieces, dare I say significantly more than a majority of the pieces required to rebuild it would be new. If that is the case, it made me think, wouldn't it be cheaper to just be an identical or nearly identical ride, however who owns the rights to that particular layout, if anyone? Could someone come along and build a clone or near clone of a ride that has been around for a while? If you can't just build a clone w/o permission, how different does the layout need to be in order to claim it as your own? Certainly there are similar elements in many coasters around the world, so there would have to be some degree of separation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 A. Any design patents expired years ago. B. Cedar Fair SOLD the coaster after it, experienced in the business and having conducted due diligence, concluded it did not make economic sense to relocate it, including to close by Cedar Point. C. The coaster was available on the open market for a very long time. No one bought it. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread. In this case, even the fools passed on by. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Let's pretend for just a moment. If Amusement Park A buys this coaster, photographs it, knocks it down, and rebuilds it at their park with entirely new materials, how is it the same ride? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyroKinesis Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 There is space...Trust me.. And no, there isn't space for Big Dipper at Cedar Point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB1 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Hey, I wouldn't mind having our first Dippin' Dots themed coaster at Kings Island. Put it up some where in the back, put in a Dippin' Dots stand right next to it, heck even put in a podium for the notorious Dippin' Dots Guy! All joking aside, I do think that Cedar Fair has a coaster that it could buy and still bring some thrills to any park. Now, to which park, I would imagine due to resources and the cheapest move, Dorney Park, Cedar Point, or Kings Island. Kings Island just got a coaster, and more than likely, in my opinion, the next addition could be a flat or a waterpark add on. Cedar Point, well, they seem to be hinting towards a new coaster, making an addition less than likely. BUT they both have ample space for the coaster in areas that could be added on. Dorney Park, same thing, they just got an addition in the waterpark, easily allowing for a new addition in the hard park. Plus, unlike MA, CP, KI, DP has a very small wooden coaster count, easily allowing for a new wooden coaster to come in for 2015. Now, in regards to reality, Cedar Fair may not take such a risky move. It is dilapidated, old, and somewhat in a state of major repair. Such a move would not be the best thought, but hey, anything could happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedevariouseffect Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 There is space...Trust me..And no, there isn't space for Big Dipper at Cedar Point.Ok..here's a few easy spots it'll fitArea 3 by mean streak behind the train Area 2 Frontier trail on the left by Millies infield Where Golds was or where Cedars are Beach area by Maggie sitting unused Next to train off Gemini Midway headed towards STR and Snake..could put three of em back there Trust me..plenty of room you don't see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KI Guy Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 A major reason I thought that it was worth bringing up was that Cedar Fair management is much different now than it was when the Geauga situation went down. In all likelihood, someone in the new management has at least thought about it. I'm well aware that it's close to a pipe dream for it to ever be reopened somewhere, but I think it would be fantastic if it were to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I helped those 'clowns' a few years ago. The owner is a mysterious entity that nobody seems to know much of anything about. Much like Howard Hughes before him, he has an agent who handles all of his business transactions. Kat and Harold didn't have nearly the funds or the resources to buy, let alone operate the BD, though they were more than earnest in their intents. My help was limited to a cursory review of the document presented to them by the agent. I did not offer them legal advice, since I am not a licensed Ohio attorney, but merely told them that from my standpoint, the purported document would lock them into a fianancial hellhole which would likely destory their credit and make them personally liable on multiple fronts--which is not a good thing. They wisely walked away and I know of no other suitors who have come forward since. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoor Man Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Clown was a bad choice of words. I don't know either person personally nor as a casual acquaintance. Likely back at that time Cedar Fair didn't care who, what, or how- just buy the thing and remove it. My 'clown' comment was derived partially be what Gabe mentioned in that they didn't have the funds or resources. Their efforts were only going to be helped by individuals and park "vigilante's" that would donate $5-100 each. What they would have been in need of was corporations that would donate $5,000-$10,000 at a time (or more). A college student and coaster enthusiast from overseas wouldn't attract that kind of capital. I recall when the effort first came up there was a bit of initial buzz- and as a interested bystander (from the SeaWorld days), I thought that a second life for the coaster (by a credible investor) would have been great. I was thinking development corporations like Phillips Edison, Corporex (though Cincinnati organizations- at least similar). What I don't understand is why the coaster continues to stand almost 7 or 8 years after it closed and why the communities the park straddles hasn't forced Cedar Fair's hand to clean up the property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 How long did Kentucky Kindom stand fallow--the entire park was SBNO for nearly 5 years after Mr. Six got back on his spooky bus and departed the scene. If the former park site isn't harboring any industrial waste, I doubt there's really that much of an outcry to clean it up, other than the site being somewhat of an eyesore. Simply put, the coaster continues to stand becasuse nobody knows who the true owner is. Does he have good title? Or is he simply a ghost of some sort? When people buy things, whether it be a can of corn, a house, a car or a coaster, they like to know that the seller has the legal right to sell such goods and has proper ownership of the item he's selling. Anyone buying this coaster fits PT Barnum's quote of a fool who is soon parted from his money. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 When a prudent real estate owner sells a fixture or real estate to be severed from the land as salvage, it gives the buyer only X period of time to remove the salvage. Failing such timely removal, the contract normally provides that title reverts to the seller. If the sales contract did not include such a term....the mind boggles. Who would draw up such a silly contract? A law clerk? A drunk paralegal? Really? Terp, whose head hurts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I bet CF now owns it and will sell it with the property, so the new owners will be the one to choose to demolish it for condos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 That's not the story the locals are told. They are told the coaster buyer at the auction retains ownership. No one but a fool would buy that property now without deeds or a deed from both the landowner AND the coaster buyer. No one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Do you really think they would have signed such a foolish contract? What do you think a typical timeframe would be? It has undoubtedly passed that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 If Cedar Fair had not drafted the contract, and the time was not specified, it would be assumed to be for a reasonable time. But Cedar Fair DID draft the auction sales contract, it will be strictly construed against them. Since no time is specified (and those who have seen it say that IS the case), it can be argued the buyer can remove the coaster at his leisure, whether it takes 30 days, 30 months, 30 years or a millennium. Unbelievably sloppy drafting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oysterman Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 somebody start a kickstarter and let's get this thing! ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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