Ohio senator's proposed legislation could add 38 days to school year

[CoastersRZ]

http://www.wcpo.com/news/education/kearney-ohio-school-year-bill-ohio-senators-proposed-legislation-could-add-38-days-to-school-year

What would this mean for seasonal places that rely on high school workers for three months out of the year, and to these same destinations that would see their peak season drastically reduced.

[shark6495]

A couple of things.... One this is a band aid approach more than anything. Instead of talking about things that would help more students (parent information and participation for one) this seems to be an "easy" fix that would not work in the long run, at least the way schools are organized now.

For example, Germany has 240 school days but they also have tracks in place for students. A certain percentage tests and goes into the college track, the work force track, etc. Imagine at 8th grade being tested and placed in a track for the rest of your school life. Conversely, we have students who we put through the riggers of HS education when they should be learning a trade. Looking at school days only is not the precedent you want to set.

Not to mention the school year is based on hours, not days. The proposal looks at an increase of 209 hours for HS kids. Most schools are in session for a little less than 180 days. That means we are looking at either an increase of the school day by a little bit over an hour or a longer school day of less than an hour and the potential to add 1-5 more days.

If it does pass, I would guess that it would barely affect the school year and businesses....

[BoddaH1994]

I see the value in education and all, but let's be honest: if they cut out the useless stuff, seat work, throw away days when the teachers have a sub, and unnecessary review periods the kids would only have to go for about two months per year.

[shark6495]

No offense, but that may be the worst statement I have ever read from you.

What sort of useless stuff are you speaking of? I mean schools have already gotten rid of shop classes, most schools are getting rid of theater and/or music. Heck, art in most places is enough to just have 1 or 2 classes in your academic career.

Not to mention that the state legislature has ruled what has to be done in the classroom. Bell work/seat work may seem useless but its part of the grading scale the state uses. Teachers have subs for a slew of reasons, professional development, sickness, mental health days, etc. Review periods are usually offered by teachers as a courtesy and most times they are offered as an opportunity for a student to clear up any mis-information.

[XGatorHead 8904]

From the WCPO article linked above:

Right now, Ohio students are required to serve 182 days in school. Kearney’s legislation could increase that total to 220.

Serve 182 days? That wording makes it sound like a prison sentence. Of course, I imagine some kids would equate it to such...

[rhyano]

I'm a kid UG middle school life

[silver2005]

Longer school years do not equate to better test results, especially when most of the time students are studying for those highly flawed standardized tests and are highly unprepared for life beyond high school, particularly those going into college. There are sooooo many students in college today who really, really don't belong there.

Also, I hope the addition of a month+ of days is over a period of time and not all at once. You'll have teachers woefully unprepared for the extended time teaching and students struggling to keep their minds engaged for such a large portion of any given calendar year.

And for goodness sake, let kids have time to be kids.

I feel this thread is in the wrong section. Sure it affects parks, but there are much, much bigger issues with this than how it affects amusement parks.

[shark6495]

As an educator let me say this. There are no day requirements, it is a min number of hours that is required.

[BoddaH1994]

No offense, but that may be the worst statement I have ever read from you.

What sort of useless stuff are you speaking of? I mean schools have already gotten rid of shop classes, most schools are getting rid of theater and/or music. Heck, art in most places is enough to just have 1 or 2 classes in your academic career.

I'm talking about how students are taught to the test, primarily. I really feel like students are taught "nice to know" information rather than "need to know" information. I high school graduate knows how to diagram a sentence but doesn't learn how to file taxes. They can tell you about the themes of Beowulf but now how to prevent ruining their credit history before the age of 25.

College is even worse. WAY too many gen ed classes that have nothing to do with your field of study. Of course, you have to pay for each class so it works well in their favor.

For the record, I think the elimination of classes such as art and music is a travesty. Those sorts of disciplines improve skills in reading and math. They enrich society in ways that other things can not.

Maybe it's a society thing rather than the responsibility of the schools, but I really feel as though too many people are misplaced in what they are doing. People mistake what they perceive as "easy" for themselves having talent. It's all too often that a person who is a poet should really have been a brick layer - or even worse, a brick layer who should have been a poet.

Not to mention that the state legislature has ruled what has to be done in the classroom. Bell work/seat work may seem useless but its part of the grading scale the state uses. Teachers have subs for a slew of reasons, professional development, sickness, mental health days, etc. Review periods are usually offered by teachers as a courtesy and most times they are offered as an opportunity for a student to clear up any mis-information.

My mom is a second grade teacher. The strategy of her entire school (essentially) is lesson - seat work - lesson - seat work, etc. Simply put, she has an hour to kill for each lesson. When the lesson is done you can't simply go on to the next lesson the same day. It would be an overload. There certainly is a value in reinforcing what is taught through seat work, but I truly believe that if they added hours to the school day it would just be more of this - without the added value.

I really believe that teachers should get days off like anybody else. I'm not saying they shouldn't. But let's be frank - when a sub comes into a classroom, more often than not they are given instructions to give an assignment to the class they the students must do on their own. They're often not qualified to teach the lessons. So the students are either left with an assignment that they could have done at home (sacrificing valuable interactive classroom time) or left with more seat work.

When I'm talking about review time, I'm talking about relearning what you had learned the previous day/month/or even year. I'm totally in favor of the teachers having a planning period. I just think that, although there is a great deal of value in review, it happens entirely too often.

I, more so than most my age, will preach the value of education. I think that teachers are incredibly underpaid and undervalued for what they do. I really just think that adding more classroom time isn't the solution. It's going to be more of the same. They need to worry about the quality of education over the quantity of hours. How can they teach things in a way that opens new doors rather than being regurgitated in an essay. Teachers, more than anyone else, can tell you how things can be improved. They know more than anyone what works and what doesn't. They key to this is investing the time and money into the experience. Use technology to your advantage, talk about current events and how they relate to your history lesson, etc. Teachers are some of the most brilliant showmen I have ever seen and if you just give then the resources to mold their students then they can make a real difference. Slapping another hour on the school day and calling it a job well done is not the answer.

[shark6495]

Now had you said all they in your first post..... I agree 100%.

[coasterfanatic83]

My parents are both teachers, and their school district already attends for about an hour per day over the minimum. I think my dad said that it totals to something like 23 extra days, but that might be wrong.

My point is here is that in some school districts this proposed change might not be as drastic, in terms of scheduling, as you might think.

[jcgoble3]

My parents are both teachers, and their school district already attends for about an hour per day over the minimum. I think my dad said that it totals to something like 23 extra days, but that might be wrong.

My point is here is that in some school districts this proposed change might not be as drastic, in terms of scheduling, as you might think.

Indeed. Under this proposal, middle school and high school minimum hours would increase from 1,001 to 1,210. The local high school here (Xenia) is scheduled for 1,259 hours this year. No change would be needed there. Middle schools here are scheduled for 1,189 hours this year, and would need just under seven extra minutes per day to meet the new requirement. Elementary schools here, which would see the minimum go from 910 to 1,100, are already scheduled for 1,098 this year, and would only need to add just under four minutes each day.

In summary, it wouldn't really have much of an effect.

[silver2005]

Huh...then where does this '38 extra days' figure come from?

[coasterfanatic83]

It was probably found by just calculating the changes to the bare minimum.

[jcgoble3]

1,210 − 1,001 = 209 / 5.5 = 38 days, assuming that 1) all schools are doing the absolute minimum number of hours per year currently (which, as I demonstrated, is not true), and 2) all schools are doing the minimum number of hours per day of 5.5 (also not true).

[bkroz]

Education is so difficult. There are so many problems and so few agreeable solutions. As we run it today, education is an outdated and outmoded model that makes some pretty heinous and seemingly arbitrary assumptions (for example, that all children of age X should be able to perform similarly to one another, or that education should be mandatory for every child through age 16). Funds are cut as expectations rise. Ridiculous federal programs have lead to a practical witch hunt wherein teachers are blamed, children are medicated for an inability to sit for countless hours (well, duh) and all the while class numbers rise and school days grow longer.

We're in a bad spot with it. Not sure where the answer lies, because a lot of separate things would need separately reversed. And given politics, what's best for the children of the United States and our future is unlikely to be enough to instigate that change.

I was formally educated to educate formally with a degree and teaching license for K-12 education. I bypassed the classroom entirely and went right into informal ed, and am finding myself much happier; learning more, and maybe teaching more. Odd, that.

[RollerNut]

The schools in NC have become little more than free daycare.

[The Interpreter]

Not free. See property tax. And income tax. And those without school age children also get to help pay. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[shark6495]

1,210 − 1,001 = 209 / 5.5 = 38 days, assuming that 1) all schools are doing the absolute minimum number of hours per year currently (which, as I demonstrated, is not true), and 2) all schools are doing the minimum number of hours per day of 5.5 (also not true).

Well that is 5.5 hours of educational study. Lunch times do not count towards the 5.5.

[The Interpreter]

I haven't been in secondary school for more than 40 years now. Back then, we had tracking. Using the California Achievement Test, we were grouped prior to high school into academic (college bound), standard (everyone not in the other two groups), and general (those destined for blue collar jobs or vocational training).

The classes were different, the requirements to graduate were different, and teachers had great latitude to teach what and how they saw fit.

We did fine.

Then the PC police showed up and determined ALL the children were above average.....

[RollerNut]

My students' parents look at it as free when they are happy and only fuss about paying for it through taxes when they are mad at a school....

Taxes would have to be paid whether we have public schools are not.

[BB1]

Here's my viewpoint on the subject. The days do not matter, rather, it is the teaching administered. The goal is for the students to pass the final exam and to learn, not make them "serve" a sentence for school incentives. Which on the serve point, WCPO, really? That right there makes me upset, a high school student is not serving a class to pass, rather better diction, or word choice, would be enrolled, required to take.

The education system rather should have changes, not days. For example, Charlie's school has x hours of school, and he learns from old text books. Billy's school has y hours of school, and he learns from new text books and reinvented teaching techniques. Charlie's school has more hours, yet he fails, Billy's school has less hours, yet he passes. Education for the workplace, education with College credit (AP comes to mind). Now, after a change of the administration of the knowledge, and further changes are needed, sure go on to add a few more days, just without the days that students do nothing in.

[Dieseltech20]

From the WCPO article linked above:

Right now, Ohio students are required to serve 182 days in school. Kearney’s legislation could increase that total to 220.

Serve 182 days? That wording makes it sound like a prison sentence.

Because it was.

[rhyano]

I mean come on this law will NEVER pass on my watch expressly with kids vs teachers aka Teacher: okay kids we have 38 more days of school! kids: NOO!! (banging and screaming)

[shark6495]

Education starts at birth, period. Parents need to start teaching kids from the moment they escape the womb.

[shark6495]

I mean come on this law will NEVER pass on my watch expressly with kids vs teachers aka Teacher: okay kids we have 38 more days of school! kids: NOO!! (banging and screaming)

Again even if it does pass, it won't he 38 extra days....

[thekidd33]

As both a member of this site and a licensed educator, this may be the most interesting topic I have come across on this site in quite some time.

[BoddaH1994]

As both a member of this site and a licensed educator, this may be the most interesting topic I have come across on this site in quite some time.

We'd love to hear your opinion on the matter.

[Skyrider]

No offense, but that may be the worst statement I have ever read from you.

What sort of useless stuff are you speaking of? I mean schools have already gotten rid of shop classes, most schools are getting rid of theater and/or music. Heck, art in most places is enough to just have 1 or 2 classes in your academic career.

I'm talking about how students are taught to the test, primarily. I really feel like students are taught "nice to know" information rather than "need to know" information. I high school graduate knows how to diagram a sentence but doesn't learn how to file taxes. They can tell you about the themes of Beowulf but now how to prevent ruining their credit history before the age of 25.

College is even worse. WAY too many gen ed classes that have nothing to do with your field of study. Of course, you have to pay for each class so it works well in their favor.

For the record, I think the elimination of classes such as art and music is a travesty. Those sorts of disciplines improve skills in reading and math. They enrich society in ways that other things can not.

Maybe it's a society thing rather than the responsibility of the schools, but I really feel as though too many people are misplaced in what they are doing. People mistake what they perceive as "easy" for themselves having talent. It's all too often that a person who is a poet should really have been a brick layer - or even worse, a brick layer who should have been a poet.

Not to mention that the state legislature has ruled what has to be done in the classroom. Bell work/seat work may seem useless but its part of the grading scale the state uses. Teachers have subs for a slew of reasons, professional development, sickness, mental health days, etc. Review periods are usually offered by teachers as a courtesy and most times they are offered as an opportunity for a student to clear up any mis-information.

My mom is a second grade teacher. The strategy of her entire school (essentially) is lesson - seat work - lesson - seat work, etc. Simply put, she has an hour to kill for each lesson. When the lesson is done you can't simply go on to the next lesson the same day. It would be an overload. There certainly is a value in reinforcing what is taught through seat work, but I truly believe that if they added hours to the school day it would just be more of this - without the added value.

I really believe that teachers should get days off like anybody else. I'm not saying they shouldn't. But let's be frank - when a sub comes into a classroom, more often than not they are given instructions to give an assignment to the class they the students must do on their own. They're often not qualified to teach the lessons. So the students are either left with an assignment that they could have done at home (sacrificing valuable interactive classroom time) or left with more seat work.

When I'm talking about review time, I'm talking about relearning what you had learned the previous day/month/or even year. I'm totally in favor of the teachers having a planning period. I just think that, although there is a great deal of value in review, it happens entirely too often.

I, more so than most my age, will preach the value of education. I think that teachers are incredibly underpaid and undervalued for what they do. I really just think that adding more classroom time isn't the solution. It's going to be more of the same. They need to worry about the quality of education over the quantity of hours. How can they teach things in a way that opens new doors rather than being regurgitated in an essay. Teachers, more than anyone else, can tell you how things can be improved. They know more than anyone what works and what doesn't. They key to this is investing the time and money into the experience. Use technology to your advantage, talk about current events and how they relate to your history lesson, etc. Teachers are some of the most brilliant showmen I have ever seen and if you just give then the resources to mold their students then they can make a real difference. Slapping another hour on the school day and calling it a job well done is not the answer.

As an educator myself I appreciate the high regard that you have for teachers. I wish politicians would consult educators more often and get feedback from education professionals on the real issues before deciding on legislation regarding education matters. My personal opinion is that if we would intensify supports for a child in the beginning of their schooling that in the long run we would spent less money on education overall. When building a house don't you want the strongest foundation? Not that students are buildings, but they need a strong foundation to be more successful in the rigors of school. Schools can then make sure to intervene early on for students that are below grade level in reading and math. Many countries that outperform the USA focus intensively on reading and math skills in the early years. They make sure that each child can read and understand math on grade level.

The common core standards was suppose to give more rigorous standards and make USA students more college read. There is suppose to be more time to teach these more rigorous standards since there are less standards than before so that teachers could teach more in depth. I was lead to believe that I could teach more in depth and not have to scratch the surface on each standard, make sure that students had a real mastery of the concepts. So what they did instead (politicians) is added more high stake testing throughout the year giving teachers less time to teach and expecting the students to perform better.

I would personally would like to see year round school eventually with more breaks for students throughout the year instead of longer school days or added total number of days. Studies have been done about how much students lose over the long summer break--it is shocking. Have shorter cycle assessments instead of these hours long assessments and if a students hasn't mastered the concepts they have a shorter break than other students that have mastered the concepts. It would provide motivation for the students to try their best (some students are not intrinsically motivated---especially if they do not have any successful role models close to them) and that would provide the smaller class size to provide additional interventions to those students struggling with the concepts. Provide preschool for ALL students (not just the well to do and those that win a lottery to get their child in) from the local school district with very small class sizes and thus giving small student to teacher ratios. Have students demonstrate that they are ready for kindergarten and if not provide an additional year to get them ready (Kinder Ready). If we build that strong foundation from the beginning I believe we would help our students be more successful in school and in life.

[Skyrider]

As an educator myself I appreciate the high regard that most of you have for teachers. I wish politicians would consult educators more often and get feedback from education professionals on the real issues before deciding on legislation regarding education matters. My personal opinion is that if we would intensify supports for a child in the beginning of their schooling that in the long run we would spent less money on education overall. When building a house don't you want the strongest foundation? Not that students are buildings, but they need a strong foundation to be more successful in the rigors of school. Schools can then make sure to intervene early on for students that are below grade level in reading and math. Many countries that outperform the USA focus intensively on reading and math skills in the early years. They make sure that each child can read and understand math on grade level.

The common core standards was suppose to give more rigorous standards and make USA students more college ready. There is suppose to be more time to teach these more rigorous standards since there are less standards than before CC so that teachers could teach more in depth. I was lead to believe that I could teach more in depth and not have to scratch the surface on each standard, making sure students had a real mastery of the concepts. So what they did instead (politicians) is added more high stake testing throughout the year giving teachers less time to teach and expecting the students to perform better.

I would personally would like to see year round school eventually with more breaks for students throughout the year instead of longer school days or added total number of days (except for student that have not shown mastery). Studies have been done about how much students lose over the long summer break--it is shocking. Have shorter cycle assessments instead of these hours long assessments and if a students hasn't mastered the concepts they would have a shorter break than other students that have mastered the concepts. It would provide motivation for the students to try their best (some students are not intrinsically motivated---especially if they do not have any successful role models in their life) and that would provide the smaller class size to provide additional interventions to those students struggling with the concepts and give them more time to learn. This idea that all students learn at the same rate is really misunderstood by many. Provide preschool for ALL students (not just the well to do and those that win a lottery to get their child in) from the local school district with very small class sizes and thus giving small student to teacher ratios. Have students demonstrate that they are ready for kindergarten and if not provide an additional year to get them ready (Kinder Ready). If we build that strong foundation from the beginning I believe we would help our students be more successful in school and in life.