brenthodge Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Its sad (and amazing) that these two parks have the same corporate parent. Why can't we have even HALF of the investment in KI that Knotts sees? KI is a sad shell of what was once there - bland, shopping mall style landscaping and bad pop music blaring - heck the new area mall has better theming than this park. Just frustrating that our regional park is left to become an amusement park - nothing more. http://micechat.com/114489-knotts-berry-farm-ghost-town-75th-anniversary-celebration/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollerNut Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Knotts has bounced back from Cedar Fair doing more harm than good, I believe it is like a pet project for Matt Ouimet. Plus there is more and steeper competition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkroz Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Both parks answer to their competitors. Knott's Berry Farm competes with Disneyland for Southern California locals and it shows in Knott's priorities. Kings Island competes with Cedar Point. Kind of. And it shows in Kings Island's priorities. Kings Dominion competes with Busch Gardens and it shows in Kings Dominion's priorities. Matt Ouimet's the other big piece. Remember he came from Disneyland Resort where he was the park president. During his time there, he restored a lot of the history and reverence of the park in preparation for its 50th Anniversary, and eliminated many of the cost-cutting choices of the era that preceded him. Knott's is about 10 minutes from Disneyland, and I'm pretty sure Ouimet has said before that he was excited to bring out the potential in Knott's. And he's doing it in spades. That's probably his "spirit park" of Cedar Fair's line-up. He saw it from Disneyland for years and no doubt had grand plans in mind once he was able to make changes there. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrum91 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Talk about a clickbait thread title. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Knott's Berry Farm has another major park competitor not mentioned above. One that desperately needs to figure out what it wants to be. (Hint: Cedar Point West is probably not the best or most profitable answer). 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagoda Gift Shop Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 A couple other factors might be that KI has a lot of season pass holders and is only a seasonal amusement park. I'm sure a lot of thought is put into how to keep the pass holders happy. Kings Island's 40th anniversary was in 2012. What was new that season? A water park expansion. Among the additions last year were a huge Starbucks and a petting zoo. Those are not the kind of additions that get huge press, but they keep the locals happy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Too, there was a change in management between those two very different seasons. See also Banshee. Compare Diamondback....(Placement, context, stations, "theming," &c.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenthodge Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 My point exactly - ONLY A SEASONAL AMUSEMENT PARK. It's just interesting the difference between the parks owned by the same corporate company. They know their "markets" and the customer base. I just wish we weren't that customer base. Kings Island - from the music, to the landscaping, to the ride theming is nothing special and getting less and less. Its clean, tidy and looks like an average shopping mall. I don't get the "see also Banshee"comment. What is the context and placement? A big metal coaster in an area of concrete, pavers and "sun shades"? Whats the theming? A few tombstones with lots of much and a few grasses scattered around. I guess the theme fits the overall theme of "slightly modern, minimal mall-ish look with easy to maintain shrubbery" That could be said for Diamondback as well. That goes along with the non-theme mall directory style "touch and go" maps throughout the park, the bad TV time infotainment all over the park and the sans serif metal lettering on the now painted over and unthemed german style "Festhaus". It just feels like there should be a Best Buy on International Street and a Hobby Lobby in Action Zone and we could make a day of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenthodge Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 and the "huge" Starbucks is unthemed to anything other than "Starbucks" and the petting zoo looks like a temporary event that just stayed. We also tore down a nonfunctioning waterfall and added MULCH to an area that looks disgusting with dead trees filling all the old stream beds and nothing but a few shrubs filling the "Tower Gardens" while the haze of smoke fills the air of this "relaxing spot" right next to the grand carousel with burt out light bulbs, chipping paint and missing wood detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenthodge Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Oh and "moved on" from a Starlight Spectacular but left half of the lights hanging out of the half dead trees - Replaced it with nothing in the way of evening entertainment (except for the 5 min firework "spectacular" set to the oddest chopped up soundtrack I've ever heard. These have all been GREAT changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italian Job 2005 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Wow. Even I love satire. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 And if it is not, find a new pastime. No need to go to a place that so negatively affects you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenthodge Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Its a forum to express opinions - Mine are expressed. If you don't like them - sorry, but I can still have them and express them. Im not negatively affected - I don't sit at home for hours as a pastime dreaming of Kings Island - I just see the potential in this park that would appeal to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorarius Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Wow, for a second there I thought I accidentally wound up on TPR... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Perhaps Bob Avery has joined us.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 To be fair, the water fall that was removed from the area that was once known as Tower Gardens was looking pretty sad the last few years from years of no upkeep. It was quite an eyesore the last couple of times (with the underlying foam that was used to create the rock work showing). The difference between Diamondback and Banshee`s station is quite striking. To me, Diamondback`s station is a pretty simple station. While Banshee`s station has a lot of cool architectural elements on it, including the trusses in the station area. This is an example of placemaking, which is something both Matt Ouimet and Rob Decker (the corporate designer for Cedar Fair) have been trying to implement in the parks. The other factor behind Knott`s getting those upgrades is it is the one park in the chain that is open year round, and can bring in revenue every single quarter for the company. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 ..and it is the one park with not just one but two major competitors for top of mind/dollars/visits in the same competitive space. No other Cedar Fair park comes close to that. Southern California park lovers have choices. And that makes a huge difference. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 That is very true. When I visited Southern California back in April on my honeymoon, I loved Knott`s and Disneyland/DCA. Six Flags Magic Mountain just seemed a little odd when we were out there. It was probably the least favorite of the parks we visited when we were out there. But yes, those parks need to keep adding things so that they can try and lure paying customers to keep coming back to their park so they are not upstagged by one of their competitors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Oddly enough, Magic Mountain has aspired to be Cedar Point West and THE coaster capital. Though the two parks are very different, as are their markets and competition, this has proven to be a problem at both parks. Mr. Ouimet has seen the folly of super-serving thrill seekers to the virtual exclusion of everybody else. (See, for instance, Cirque Imagine--which would NEVER have happened under Mr. Kinzel). Mr. Reid-Anderson? Not so much. Example? NJFTP 2016 addition. Really? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeastFarmer Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 The difference between Diamondback and Banshee`s station is quite striking. To me, Diamondback`s station is a pretty simple station. While Banshee`s station has a lot of cool architectural elements on it, including the trusses in the station area. This is an example of placemaking, which is something both Matt Ouimet and Rob Decker (the corporate designer for Cedar Fair) have been trying to implement in the parks. I agree, but if they wanted to engage in placemaking, why would they detheme places? Yes, it is only an entrance sign, but when they removed the Coney Mall sign, it really seems like they are making a statement. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Generally, small changes like that are harbingers. Perhaps new management intends to de-emphasize Coney over time. After all, those of us who went to old Coney of Ohio and know the history are leaving this orb and/or becoming a smaller portion of park guests each year. Do you, as a park exec, really want to teach people about what is now a competitor, at least in a small way? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlondyRidesOn Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Comparing Knotts to Kings Island makes me think about Kings Dominion. That park seems to be bringing back some old themed elements. Candy Apple Grove, Safari Village, even their International Street is being acknowledged a bit more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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