Decoding Episode II: Rivertown 2017 and the Falling Trees

[BavarianBeatle]

No injury was life-threatening, no, but drowning was a possibility. As was stated, thanks to the bystanders, the passengers happened to get out unscathed, but if the same bystanders did not help, and the passengers had to wait, say, 5 more minutes, they could have all sustained serious injuries to their lungs and brains, or worse (that is, if the boat was submerged or caused the passengers to be submerged. Could somebody please verify either way?). Still, it was a very serious incident that turned out to be a minor incident due to the good Samaritans that jumped in and helped immediately instead of succumbing to the Bystander effect

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You are using hypothetical situations to exaggerate what actually occurred.   There was a thunderstorm in my hometown today (I could have been killed by lightning), I took a shower this morning ( I could have slipped and hit my head and died), I drove to work today (I could have been rear-ended by a semi).....  Suggesting that people were "nearly killed" on Shoot the Rapids is about a half step above the people who think that people were killed on Son of Beast and/or The (original) Bat!  It is a wild exaggeration that unfairly casts the park industry (And, in this case, Cedar Point) in a negative light that is unfair, inaccurate and fuels unfounded rumors such as those mentioned above, which is why I even came back here.   

[malem]

 

^Slacker.

 

silver2005, avoiding 1 word posts. 

 

Well, if we hadn't sat down at that table at 2:00 and chatted until 3:30, I might have had time.

 

 

Or maybe it was no accident that we decided to chat until it was too late for you to go?

[jcgoble3]

No injury was life-threatening, no, but drowning was a possibility. As was stated, thanks to the bystanders, the passengers happened to get out unscathed, but if the same bystanders did not help, and the passengers had to wait, say, 5 more minutes, they could have all sustained serious injuries to their lungs and brains, or worse (that is, if the boat was submerged or caused the passengers to be submerged. Could somebody please verify either way?). Still, it was a very serious incident that turned out to be a minor incident due to the good Samaritans that jumped in and helped immediately instead of succumbing to the Bystander effect

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You are using hypothetical situations to exaggerate what actually occurred.   There was a thunderstorm in my hometown today (I could have been killed by lightning), I took a shower this morning ( I could have slipped and hit my head and died), I drove to work today (I could have been rear-ended by a semi).....  Suggesting that people were "nearly killed" on Shoot the Rapids is about a half step above the people who think that people were killed on Son of Beast and/or The (original) Bat!  It is a wild exaggeration that unfairly casts the park industry (And, in this case, Cedar Point) in a negative light that is unfair, inaccurate and fuels unfounded rumors such as those mentioned above, which is why I even came back here.   

 

I presume you took appropriate safety measures during that thunderstorm, such as staying inside, that reduced your risk of dying to virtually zero. The odds of slipping in the shower and dying as a result are extremely miniscule. The odds of dying in a car accident are may not round to zero, but unless you had to swerve out of the way to avoid an out-of-control semi barreling down on you in a traffic jam, those odds are still low enough to be insignificant to this discussion.

 

The Shoot the Rapids accident does not even remotely resemble any of those situations. A boat flipped off a lift hill and landed upside down in the water, with riders having their heads submerged and being unable to breathe or escape on their own due to the restraint pinning them in their seat. Without quick action by spectators who rightly decided that it was worth violating multiple park rules to save lives, those riders would suffer permanent brain damage in a couple of minutes and would be dead in three to four minutes, all without the ability to save themselves.

 

The phrase "nearly killed" does not require injuries of any kind. Here, riders were stuck in a position that would have (not could have, but would have) killed them in four minutes or less, and were saved only by the quick response of other guests. If those other guests don't jump into that water, those riders would likely be dead today. That is "nearly killed", and to suggest otherwise is severely trivializing a traumatic experience for those riders.

[jcgoble3]

(Double-posting to clearly separate the rant above from this attempt to move the discussion back toward more lighthearted things.)

 

^Slacker.
 

silver2005, avoiding 1 word posts. 

 

Well, if we hadn't sat down at that table at 2:00 and chatted until 3:30, I might have had time.

 

Or maybe it was no accident that we decided to chat until it was too late for you to go?

 

We would have sat there chatting even longer if I hadn't stated that I was ready to go and stood up.

[benny1388]

This was just posted not long ago...I found it funnier than I probably should have"
 

https://twitter.com/JGreen_LAT/status/738357206207365120

[KI Guy]

 

No injury was life-threatening, no, but drowning was a possibility. As was stated, thanks to the bystanders, the passengers happened to get out unscathed, but if the same bystanders did not help, and the passengers had to wait, say, 5 more minutes, they could have all sustained serious injuries to their lungs and brains, or worse (that is, if the boat was submerged or caused the passengers to be submerged. Could somebody please verify either way?). Still, it was a very serious incident that turned out to be a minor incident due to the good Samaritans that jumped in and helped immediately instead of succumbing to the Bystander effect

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

You are using hypothetical situations to exaggerate what actually occurred.   There was a thunderstorm in my hometown today (I could have been killed by lightning), I took a shower this morning ( I could have slipped and hit my head and died), I drove to work today (I could have been rear-ended by a semi).....  Suggesting that people were "nearly killed" on Shoot the Rapids is about a half step above the people who think that people were killed on Son of Beast and/or The (original) Bat!  It is a wild exaggeration that unfairly casts the park industry (And, in this case, Cedar Point) in a negative light that is unfair, inaccurate and fuels unfounded rumors such as those mentioned above, which is why I even came back here.   

 

I presume you took appropriate safety measures during that thunderstorm, such as staying inside, that reduced your risk of dying to virtually zero. The odds of slipping in the shower and dying as a result are extremely miniscule. The odds of dying in a car accident are may not round to zero, but unless you had to swerve out of the way to avoid an out-of-control semi barreling down on you in a traffic jam, those odds are still low enough to be insignificant to this discussion.

 

The Shoot the Rapids accident does not even remotely resemble any of those situations. A boat flipped off a lift hill and landed upside down in the water, with riders having their heads submerged and being unable to breathe or escape on their own due to the restraint pinning them in their seat. Without quick action by spectators who rightly decided that it was worth violating multiple park rules to save lives, those riders would suffer permanent brain damage in a couple of minutes and would be dead in three to four minutes, all without the ability to save themselves.

 

The phrase "nearly killed" does not require injuries of any kind. Here, riders were stuck in a position that would have (not could have, but would have) killed them in four minutes or less, and were saved only by the quick response of other guests. If those other guests don't jump into that water, those riders would likely be dead today. That is "nearly killed", and to suggest otherwise is severely trivializing a traumatic experience for those riders.

 

I know that the park would never want to publicize the fact that this happened, but were the bystanders thanked or recognized in some way by the park or the press?

[Joncars05]

 

This was just posted not long ago...I found it funnier than I probably should have"

 

https://twitter.com/JGreen_LAT/status/738357206207365120

 

 

That's my tweet! I can't believe Don re-tweeted it! 

[MadMaverick]

Kinda surprised we didn't see any major progress this week. I was hoping after memorial day things would really start picking up.

[Oldschool75]

So Piccolo, any luck?

If not, I can try and stop today. I get off at 4 and about 15 minutes away.

**update. I just stopped up. They are not very cooperative. You need to have a specific project name. Maybe I need to contact some of my friends in the media?

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[warriordog10]

Kinda surprised we didn't see any major progress this week. I was hoping after memorial day things would really start picking up.

 

Yeah, I figured as well. Trying to think back to Banshee's construction and how far along they were around this time, but I am unsure. 

[Creed Bratton]

So Piccolo, any luck?

If not, I can try and stop today. I get off at 4 and about 15 minutes away.

**update. I just stopped up. They are not very cooperative. You need to have a specific project name. Maybe I need to contact some of my friends in the media?

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[Magenta Lizard]

I've been thinking they might do something interesting at the Coaster Campout (June 11-12).

Didn't the ones camping at CP get an overnight visit from some Rougarou teasers a couple years back?

I forget where the camping is this year, was it behind Backlot, or near DB? At the very least it is in the actual park rather than Picnic Grove.

[Oldschool75]

So Piccolo, any luck?

If not, I can try and stop today. I get off at 4 and about 15 minutes away.

**update. I just stopped up. They are not very cooperative. You need to have a specific project name. Maybe I need to contact some of my friends in the media?

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^LOL. And for originality

https://youtu.be/M5QGkOGZubQ

Funny because your meme is out of context, since I wasn't complaining. So again nothing.

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[Creed Bratton]

 

 

 Maybe I need to contact some of my friends in the media?

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Oh, but this isn't trying to "expose" someone for doing their job? Oh okay. 

Back to the topic at hand, the picture of the queue of WWC and the marked trees, has me thinking, a fly over of sorts with the support(s) being placed in that spot.

[Piccolo]

So Piccolo, any luck?

If not, I can try and stop today. I get off at 4 and about 15 minutes away.

**update. I just stopped up. They are not very cooperative. You need to have a specific project name. Maybe I need to contact some of my friends in the media?

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Yeah, so after seeing you didn't have any luck I went there and was told the same thing. I'm gonna do some digging and see where I can get. I have the Engineering and Building Dept. sending me the Banshee blueprints to try to see if I can get on some sort of track as to project naming and to see if I can 'decode' some stuff. 

 

I'll be quiet now.

[Oldschool75]

No. Let me educate you. The media has ways of obtaining information, they know the tricks and the processes throughly that everyday people are not aware of. All I was was going to do was get some pointers from that person.

And by law, public information filed with the building department cannot be withheld when requested.

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[malem]

So, "give me anything you've got on Kings Island's 2017 project(s)" isn't a valid public records request?

 

I'm sure KI finds it quite amusing that people are trying so hard to find more clues.

[Creed Bratton]

And they probably find it a bit annoying too.

[benny1388]

And they probably find it a bit annoying too.

 

Idunno. I'm sure it's more flattering than annoying. It's not like people are trying to expose a trade secret and lower their revenues. People are acting out of passion. Not many companies have fans passionate enough to go digging through public records just because they 'have to know'.

 

Since the Dept of Agriculture is the regulatory body for amusement rides, would it be worth looking there? Or maybe they just have to inspect and clear it for use after it's built and periodically thereafter? I really don't know, just throwing it out there.

[LovinMeSomeBanshee]

Not sure if anyone really needs this, but linking it for those interested.  Mason, OH's public records policy:

 

http://www.imaginemason.org/PDFs/Public-Records-Policy_2007-2009.pdf

[thegajone]

Nevermind....

[Creed Bratton]

 

And they probably find it a bit annoying too.

 

Idunno. I'm sure it's more flattering than annoying. It's not like people are trying to expose a trade secret and lower their revenues. People are acting out of passion. Not many companies have fans passionate enough to go digging through public records just because they 'have to know'.

 

Since the Dept of Agriculture is the regulatory body for amusement rides, would it be worth looking there? Or maybe they just have to inspect and clear it for use after it's built and periodically thereafter? I really don't know, just throwing it out there.

 

 

Put yourself in the shoes of the marketing/PR department and the park. (I'm not saying this is what they do exactly)

You have been working on a project for a year/months/hours/minutes, figuring out teasers scheduled up to the announcement. You start implementing teasers, you spend hours working on code for the website, you spend a few days placing/coordinating little hints throughout the park, you spend hours in meetings coming up with various things for the project....then to have people on KIC deciding they want to be the first to find out and essentially spoil the surprise for the enthusiasts, the info would be out there and all the cool things they have planned won't necessarily be all that great to do since the "cat is out of the bag."

[KI FANATIC 37]

If you do not agree with it, just don't get involved. It's a simple as that!
 

 

And I doubt the whole coaster theme, layout, and name would be found in one public place. If it were to be found, this early, it would probably give very subtle details. I could be incorrect though.

[Creed Bratton]

You'd be surprised what is on the plans. Theme not so much, layout that can be deciphered, type for sure. Name maybe not. 

 

I'm not going to get the plans and refuse to ever do so. I simply stated how I thought the park could be annoyed by people going to get them and posting the plans. 

This isn't a site where everyone has the same view point and that's it. There are always two sides. It's as simple as that.

[benny1388]

 

 

And they probably find it a bit annoying too.

 

Idunno. I'm sure it's more flattering than annoying. It's not like people are trying to expose a trade secret and lower their revenues. People are acting out of passion. Not many companies have fans passionate enough to go digging through public records just because they 'have to know'.

 

Since the Dept of Agriculture is the regulatory body for amusement rides, would it be worth looking there? Or maybe they just have to inspect and clear it for use after it's built and periodically thereafter? I really don't know, just throwing it out there.

 

 

Put yourself in the shoes of the marketing/PR department and the park. (I'm not saying this is what they do exactly)

You have been working on a project for a year/months/hours/minutes, figuring out teasers scheduled up to the announcement. You start implementing teasers, you spend hours working on code for the website, you spend a few days placing/coordinating little hints throughout the park, you spend hours in meetings coming up with various things for the project....then to have people on KIC deciding they want to be the first to find out and essentially spoil the surprise for the enthusiasts, the info would be out there and all the cool things they have planned won't necessarily be all that great to do since the "cat is out of the bag."

 

 

 

I totally understand that. The folks at CF/KI (and Apple/Blizzard Entertainment/Disney/Fox) know all too well that they are playing a cat and mouse game with anything that can be discovered via public record. That's why they have their jobs - they're good at winning that game.

 

My point was that the people trying to figure things out aren't doing so with any malicious intent, but rather pure passion and excitement and that probably (based on commentary from video game designers) makes it less annoying and more flattering since people care enough to spend the energy.

 

It's no different than people trying to figure out the next iPhone, fans of video game companies trying to figure out the same sort of thing based on trademark filings. How is it different from fans of a tv show or movie series wanting to know everything about an upcoming release (other than the public records bit)? They're not trying to steal anybody's cookies, they're just that passionate about it. 

[KI FANATIC 37]

I agree there are two sides. I never made the assumption that your viewpoint is wrong! 

[malem]

People are talking about Project 2017. The fact that fans are searching public records for more clues shows that the park's teasing has been effective. If anyone's annoyed, it's probably those working at the Mason city offices.

[KI FANATIC 37]

I do see how that can be very annoying to people who work at the city offices!

[Creed Bratton]

 

 

 

And they probably find it a bit annoying too.

 

Idunno. I'm sure it's more flattering than annoying. It's not like people are trying to expose a trade secret and lower their revenues. People are acting out of passion. Not many companies have fans passionate enough to go digging through public records just because they 'have to know'.

 

Since the Dept of Agriculture is the regulatory body for amusement rides, would it be worth looking there? Or maybe they just have to inspect and clear it for use after it's built and periodically thereafter? I really don't know, just throwing it out there.

 

 

Put yourself in the shoes of the marketing/PR department and the park. (I'm not saying this is what they do exactly)

You have been working on a project for a year/months/hours/minutes, figuring out teasers scheduled up to the announcement. You start implementing teasers, you spend hours working on code for the website, you spend a few days placing/coordinating little hints throughout the park, you spend hours in meetings coming up with various things for the project....then to have people on KIC deciding they want to be the first to find out and essentially spoil the surprise for the enthusiasts, the info would be out there and all the cool things they have planned won't necessarily be all that great to do since the "cat is out of the bag."

 

 

 

I totally understand that. The folks at CF/KI (and Apple/Blizzard Entertainment/Disney/Fox) know all too well that they are playing a cat and mouse game with anything that can be discovered via public record. That's why they have their jobs - they're good at winning that game.

 

My point was that the people trying to figure things out aren't doing so with any malicious intent, but rather pure passion and excitement and that probably (based on commentary from video game designers) makes it less annoying and more flattering since people care enough to spend the energy.

 

It's no different than people trying to figure out the next iPhone, fans of video game companies trying to figure out the same sort of thing based on trademark filings. How is it different from fans of a tv show or movie series wanting to know everything about an upcoming release (other than the public records bit)? They're not trying to steal anybody's cookies, they're just that passionate about it. 

 

I appreciate your point! I get the excitement for sure.....I just wish this time we'd have a full out announcement without a leak, don't think we've really had anything major without a leak as of recent.

 

[Pagoda Gift Shop]

How far in advance would they need to submit plans?  I wouldn't think clearing trees would require any plans to be filed.  I'm not sure pouring footers would either.  I have no knowledge of building construction laws, but I don't know why the city would care until an actual "structure" was being built.