Does KI compete with area parks?

[King Ding Dong]

^ Assuming $80-100 for a hotel room that helps but not by much.   Admission and feeding 3-4 people on the road is what kills it for me.  The wife isn’t going to camp anyway.  

I guess my point is HW is a tough sell to the GP with such great options here in OH.  Don’t think I have heard anyone claim HW is better than KI or CP and we are a long way from getting bored of them.  

[CoastersRZ]

Kentucky Kingdom was heavily advertising in the Cincinnati area this summer with bill boards.  There was even one just down the street from Coney Island.  My wife and I took advantage of the out of state ticket deal, which included free soft drinks, earlier this summer we had a fun time at the park.  It was by no means KI, or even Holiday World, but we thoroughly enjoyed ourselves.

When my son is older and can rides rides, we will be going out to Holiday World.  It is a family park and although it has grown bigger in recent years, and the matriarch is no longer greeting visitors, it is still a fun place to go, and not that bad of a drive from Cincinnati.

[jcgoble3]

3 hours ago, King Ding Dong said:

Don’t think I have heard anyone claim HW is better than KI or CP

I will absolutely make that claim. Holiday World is IMHO simply superior to both of those parks across the board. Don't let the low number of coasters fool you; quality is more important than quantity, and they have a LOT of quality in their coasters. When I say that Legend is my least favorite coaster there, that's very much relative, since it still beats the majority of the other coasters I've ridden elsewhere. The flat rides are mostly better than those at KI as well. Customer service at HW trounces the same at KI in all respects, especially in food service. Speaking of food service, Plymouth Rock Cafe blows away anything KI or CP has to offer; how about a full Thanksgiving meal in the middle of summer for a very reasonable price? And that brings me to another point: they have much more reasonable prices on food than KI or CP, so you won't be left wishing your Cedar Fair dining plan could absorb the cost. And did I mention free unlimited soft drinks, free parking, and free sunscreen?

Yeah, I think I've made my point. In 2013 I actually bought a season pass to HW and made three trips down there (four-hour drive each way), staying for two to three days each time. Well worth my money, even though I had to cut back on KI visits that years to afford it.

[BaileyM912]

KI employees have free admission to Holiday World and Dollywood. Considering both of these are close by, I thought this might be interesting to point out. 

[malem]

^^ Legend was my least-favorite (of 3 very good woodies), but it's now my second-favorite after its reworking in 2016 by GCI. When Voyage's trims are on, Legend is my favorite coaster in the park.

[Creed Bratton]

Voyage is my least favorite in the park overall (no matter if trims are on or off). That ride really needs Millennium Flyers or Timberliners....I shouldn't come off feeling like I'm still shaking 20 minutes later and my head shouldn't feel like it's going to explode.

[IndyGuy4KI]

I don't ever see them changing from PTC's at this point. I do agree Millennium Flyers would be sweet in it. 

[Creed Bratton]

I likely will ride it once if I go to Holiwood Nights and I'll be done.

[IndyGuy4KI]

10 minutes ago, chugh43 said:

I likely will ride it once if I go to Holiwood Nights and I'll be done.

I can ride it several times just needs to be spaced out. Nothing much better than a night ride on Voyage.

[McSalsa]

Holiday World is a great park. I enjoyed all 3 wooden coasters (though I was one of those crazy people who liked Legend best even before the GCI revamp) and they still have a nice small park charm to them the 2 bigger parks I have been to (Kings Island and Cedar Point) lack. They also really try to theme their rides to whatever section of the park they are in, which can lead to odd yet fun results- see Gobbler Getaway, their shoot-em-up dark ride in the thanksgiving section. It is far better than Boo Blasters (and I don't even think Cedar Point HAS a dark ride period if I recall) and the ending is hilarious. Jcgoble is also not kidding about food there being cheaper- at Cedar Point (and I think KI would be the same price 'cause same chain) we paid $10 for some chicken fingers, and all we got were chicken fingers and honey mustard dip for that price. At Holiday World you get that, plus fries and celery, and a choice of ranch and blue cheese dip for $9. So you pay $1 less, yet get more. (At least the Chicken Fingers I got at CP were good though) Or make that $5 less when you add the fact the $4+ drinks are free at Holiday World. Oh and unlike most parks, Holiday World's web site is not afraid to show what they charge in-park for food.

https://www.holidayworld.com/park-tickets/food-snacks/

Just click a restaurant, and you can see the prices for yourself. And I'm kinda surprised no one has mentioned one of Holiday World's biggest draws, attractions wise: Splashin' Safari. It is the Cedar Point of waterparks- except instead of huge steel coasters everywhere, it is huge waterslides everywhere. You know the giant Funnel slide at Kings Island, which is one of the biggest and most popular waterslides KI has? Holiday World has that. There however, it struggles to make their top 5 waterslides in terms of scale and "draw" factor! You have ZOOMbabwe- one of the world's biggest waterslides which is over 100 feet tall, and is completely enclosed on the inside, creating a massive "dark" water slide (the view from the top of it is also incredible). Bakuli is almost as big and ends with a huge toilet bowl section. Hyena Falls is a complex is multiple slides, the biggest of which has a awesome and intense half-pipe element. There is also the massive mat racing slide, Jungle Racer, as well as numerous smaller slides, a fun lazy river (perfect after riding Voyage IMO), 2 water play areas, and 2 wave pools. And then you come to the star attractions of Splashin' Safari: Wildebeest and Mammoth, the ProSlide Water Coasters. These 2 slides CONSTANTLY get rave reviews, and also huge waits on busy days. Basically these slides feel more like a mix of a roller coaster and a waterslide, as they have twists, turns, and drops just like roller coasters do, complete with airtime...lots of airtime. Especially Wildebeest, and if you can ride it by yourself somehow (you'll need a day with no crowds) prepare for the best airtime I have experienced on ANY ride so far. Splashin' Safari blows Kings Island's waterpark out of the water, IMO...no offense to Kings Island though, Splashin' Safari blows MOST waterparks out of the water.

And this isn't even mentioning Thunderbird, which was built after my last trip to Holiday World so I have not yet ridden it. Though if my rides on GateKeeper were any indication, Thunderbird is probably also awesome. I do hope I can get back to Holiday World at some point- I had great fun there on my last few visits, and would love to go back.

Oh, and on Voyage: I like the coaster, and actually adored it back in 2010 when I first rode it, but when I returned to ride it again in 2011 it had become pretty darn brutal and rough (I heard that year they did not do as much re-tracking since they were expecting the Timberliners). I rode again in 2013, and while the first half of the coaster (everything up to and including the triple down in the dark) was almost back to 2010 quality, the 2nd half still felt brutal and somewhat painful. I was fine after a ride on the Lazy River afterwards though. I could ride it a few times a day, sure, but I'd need breaks between rides. I honestly prefer Legend over Voyage- Legend is a bit on the brutal side too, but not as much and it hits the brake run before it becomes too much. I haven't ridden Voyage since they began "trimming" it though (aka using the mid-course brakes more), so maybe that has helped them upkeep the 2nd half better, even if the intensity is reduced. Still, I know Holiday World works their butts off trying to keep Voyage running well. I cannot imagine how bad it would get if a chain park/new owner that didn't put as much TLC in took over Holiday World. Voyage would probably become a nightmare after a few seasons tops.

[diamondBanshee011]

Yeah, I agree that Voyage is a pretty rough one, I only got to ride it once a day while I was there (but only because I rode the other woodies a lot and they gave me headaches too ). Also, does anyone else think Legend has an underrated night ride?

[SonofBaconator]

In terms of the Kentucky market, does anyone think a hyper coaster at KK will hurt Kings Island in anyway?

[BeeastFarmer]

@SonofBaconator...of course it will hurt it in some way.  If one KI passholder decides not to renew because s/he can just go to KK that is lost revenue.  

[McSalsa]

On 11/8/2017 at 6:19 PM, McSalsa said:

Holiday World is a great park. I enjoyed all 3 wooden coasters (though I was one of those crazy people who liked Legend best even before the GCI revamp) and they still have a nice small park charm to them the 2 bigger parks I have been to (Kings Island and Cedar Point) lack. They also really try to theme their rides to whatever section of the park they are in, which can lead to odd yet fun results- see Gobbler Getaway, their shoot-em-up dark ride in the thanksgiving section. It is far better than Boo Blasters (and I don't even think Cedar Point HAS a dark ride period if I recall) and the ending is hilarious. Jcgoble is also not kidding about food there being cheaper- at Cedar Point (and I think KI would be the same price 'cause same chain) we paid $10 for some chicken fingers, and all we got were chicken fingers and honey mustard dip for that price. At Holiday World you get that, plus fries and celery, and a choice of ranch and blue cheese dip for $9. So you pay $1 less, yet get more. (At least the Chicken Fingers I got at CP were good though) Or make that $5 less when you add the fact the $4+ drinks are free at Holiday World. Oh and unlike most parks, Holiday World's web site is not afraid to show what they charge in-park for food.

https://www.holidayworld.com/park-tickets/food-snacks/

Just click a restaurant, and you can see the prices for yourself. And I'm kinda surprised no one has mentioned one of Holiday World's biggest draws, attractions wise: Splashin' Safari. It is the Cedar Point of waterparks- except instead of huge steel coasters everywhere, it is huge waterslides everywhere. You know the giant Funnel slide at Kings Island, which is one of the biggest and most popular waterslides KI has? Holiday World has that. There however, it struggles to make their top 5 waterslides in terms of scale and "draw" factor! You have ZOOMbabwe- one of the world's biggest waterslides which is over 100 feet tall, and is completely enclosed on the inside, creating a massive "dark" water slide (the view from the top of it is also incredible). Bakuli is almost as big and ends with a huge toilet bowl section. Hyena Falls is a complex is multiple slides, the biggest of which has a awesome and intense half-pipe element. There is also the massive mat racing slide, Jungle Racer, as well as numerous smaller slides, a fun lazy river (perfect after riding Voyage IMO), 2 water play areas, and 2 wave pools. And then you come to the star attractions of Splashin' Safari: Wildebeest and Mammoth, the ProSlide Water Coasters. These 2 slides CONSTANTLY get rave reviews, and also huge waits on busy days. Basically these slides feel more like a mix of a roller coaster and a waterslide, as they have twists, turns, and drops just like roller coasters do, complete with airtime...lots of airtime. Especially Wildebeest, and if you can ride it by yourself somehow (you'll need a day with no crowds) prepare for the best airtime I have experienced on ANY ride so far. Splashin' Safari blows Kings Island's waterpark out of the water, IMO...no offense to Kings Island though, Splashin' Safari blows MOST waterparks out of the water.

And this isn't even mentioning Thunderbird, which was built after my last trip to Holiday World so I have not yet ridden it. Though if my rides on GateKeeper were any indication, Thunderbird is probably also awesome. I do hope I can get back to Holiday World at some point- I had great fun there on my last few visits, and would love to go back.

Oh, and on Voyage: I like the coaster, and actually adored it back in 2010 when I first rode it, but when I returned to ride it again in 2011 it had become pretty darn brutal and rough (I heard that year they did not do as much re-tracking since they were expecting the Timberliners). I rode again in 2013, and while the first half of the coaster (everything up to and including the triple down in the dark) was almost back to 2010 quality, the 2nd half still felt brutal and somewhat painful. I was fine after a ride on the Lazy River afterwards though. I could ride it a few times a day, sure, but I'd need breaks between rides. I honestly prefer Legend over Voyage- Legend is a bit on the brutal side too, but not as much and it hits the brake run before it becomes too much. I haven't ridden Voyage since they began "trimming" it though (aka using the mid-course brakes more), so maybe that has helped them upkeep the 2nd half better, even if the intensity is reduced. Still, I know Holiday World works their butts off trying to keep Voyage running well. I cannot imagine how bad it would get if a chain park/new owner that didn't put as much TLC in took over Holiday World. Voyage would probably become a nightmare after a few seasons tops.

Well, I have been to Holiday World again since I wrote this (went last July) and have some updated thoughts: Voyage was running MUCH better in 2018, in spite of being trimmed at the mid-course brake run. Still had PLENTY of intensity, the airtime was back in spades, and the ride was considerably smoother than in 2011 or 2013, I would say it beats a wheel seat on any of the Cedar Fair woodies using the 3-bench PTC's (Blue Streak, Racer, and Beast) in terms of smoothness. I also got a night ride on it, which was incredible. As such, Voyage shot up from being outside my Top 10 to being my #3 overall coaster and new favorite woodie, behind only Steel Vengeance and Maverick.

The GCI overhaul also didn't affect my opinion of Legend too much, though I'd say Legend is now easily the 2nd smoothest wooden coaster I have ever been on (Mystic Timbers is #1). The laterals in the final few corners lost a tiny bit of oomph, though, so Legend pretty much stayed where it was on my rankings. Voyage surpassed it to return to being my favorite coaster at Holiday World with its huge rise, but Legend is still my #3 woodie, just edging out Mystic Timbers. Add in the short-but-sweet Raven, which was also running pretty well on my last visit, and you have a great collection of wood coasters, I'd even say the best of the 3 parks I have been to (just barely edging out Kings Island, and Cedar Point is...well...Blue Streak is good but by itself it stands no chance against the other park's collections. CP needs more woodies.).

I also finally got to ride Thunderbird- it is a solid B&M, though due to the short length of the coaster, I did like GateKeeper a bit better. Thunderbird is a good ride in its own right though, and it is more forceful than GateKeeper is. I really like the slow roll at the end, it's even better than Banshee's, and the launch, while not Top Thrill Dragster, is pretty forceful. I'll put it this way: I waited in line for a HOUR to ride Thunderbird (Saturday in July) and did not feel jipped when I got off. That is a sign of a good ride.

The rest of my OG comments still ring true- the waterpark is still amazing as usual, with the 2 water coasters being the stars. Though even Holiday World isn't perfect: we had some issues with food service at Wildebeestro, though the park's main guest services really were amazing. And the dispatches could be MUCH better on their coasters, Voyage was stacking its 2 trains and that coaster has a 3-minute long ride, even with bins that feels like it never happens at a Cedar Fair park unless you are talking about Firehawk. (Though I do like that all the coasters there have bins, making Lockers less of a need) And if you aren't really into waterparks, you're gonna be re-doing the same coasters and flat rides over and over because the sheer number of rides at Holiday World isn't nearly Kings Island level, much less Cedar Point. But the Pro's of this park still very much outweigh the cons, I would highly recommend this park, especially to fans of wooden coasters and waterslides.

Oh, and to keep this on topic: Yes, I do think Kings Island competes with area parks- more Kentucky Kingdom than Holiday World since it directly attracts the Louisville market, but I do think Holiday World does still have some effect. Kings Island may not be first park Cedar Fair tries new concepts at, but we are still getting new rides (especially if they are hits at the other parks) and I think KK and HW are one of the reasons why. If those 2 parks did not exist, there would be far less of a incentive to improve Kings Island. Banshee, Mystic Timbers, and the rumored 2020 B&M (Giga?) would probably not happen if Kentucky Kingdom and Holiday World were not tugging customers away from Kings Island. Heck, the whole reason I think Kings Island might actually get a Giga from B&M in 2020 would be a preemptive move to make Kentucky Kingdom getting a hyper look weak, and also to say "Hey. Kentucky Kingdom. Don't you dare step on our market and take customers from us, or else.".

 

[SonofBaconator]

@McSalsa Would you said that said KK hyper would be better than Diamondback?

[Kenban]

On 11/8/2017 at 9:06 AM, chugh43 said:

Voyage is my least favorite in the park overall (no matter if trims are on or off). That ride really needs Millennium Flyers or Timberliners....I shouldn't come off feeling like I'm still shaking 20 minutes later and my head shouldn't feel like it's going to explode.

HW tried Timberliners on the Voyage in 2010 and I think it was the first train ever built. You can find YouTube videos of members of the Koch family riding on it but the park never allowed the general public to try it out.  Last I saw or heard the train was for sale on a used ride website.

I have heard two rumors why they did not switch trains.  One is that the lighter trains carry less speed reducing the airtime, second the PTC’s mold the wood track to an extent and caused the Timberliners to run rough and would have required retracking the entire coaster to switch.  Both sound true, but it’s tough to know if either is why they made the decision to stick with the PTC’s.

[McSalsa]

17 hours ago, SonofBaconator said:

@McSalsa Would you said that said KK hyper would be better than Diamondback?

Maybe- depends on a LOT of factors. Manufacturer, Layout, etc etc. KK probably would not get a B&M Hyper since they are so expensive, but a Mack Hyper (like DC Rivals in Australia) would be something new that has not yet come to the USA and would thus be able to get quite a bit of attention.

[SonofBaconator]

On 9/8/2018 at 1:31 PM, McSalsa said:

Maybe- depends on a LOT of factors. Manufacturer, Layout, etc etc. KK probably would not get a B&M Hyper since they are so expensive, but a Mack Hyper (like DC Rivals in Australia) would be something new that has not yet come to the USA and would thus be able to get quite a bit of attention.

On the topic of Mack, I think Cedar Fair wants to install more Macks down the road. Europa Park, Mack's own amusement park, has won the golden ticket award for best park consecutively since 2014. The only thing that's keeping Cedar Fair from installing Macks like crazy, however, is the fact that they manufacturer their rides overseas which costs a lot, opposed to B&M who manufacturers coasters in our own backyard.