SonofBaconator Posted May 9, 2020 Author Share Posted May 9, 2020 While talking about combining dives with traditional looping coasters I went planet coaster and created this: Basically what I just made it 175 feet high and gave it a 170 ft drop. I gave the coaster 7 inversions and drew them out a little bit more for hangtime. The length is around 3,000ft long and has a top speed of 67 mph. I didn't give it a mcbr because I wanted to see how it was paced and it rode fine. Of course the elements would have to be tighter and the height would have to be shorter to make it a true dive-looper but that takes a better mind than mine to figure out. This ride would have a pretty big price-tag so it would have to be shorter than what I've made to keep it closer to the mid- to- high $20 millions. When you look at it its basically a larger, faster, longer, higher capacity euro-fighter by B&M. I would be fine with something like this replacing Vortex as well; I even built it with the plot of land in mind until I got carried away with the cutback after the sea-serpent element. It would knock out the need for a 90 degree drop as well as gain back some of the inversions we lost these past two years. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUN&ONLY! Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 8 hours ago, Shawn Meyer said: Well if they ever wanted to replace Vortex in a similar way that it was designed or layed out, a B&M floorless is the answer. Now Kings Island is more of a family park compared to Cedar Point. I'm happy Orion was installed, but I imagine they're going to build something the whole family will enjoy. If they decide to build an RMC ground up, they could make that less intense than Steel Vengeance at Cedar Point, so the whole family will enjoy it. I just want them to throw a loop in there to pay tribute to Vortex. If they go with a B&M floorless, they have a better chance of going back to back with the loops to give it that look that area of the park just lost. While I agree, I don’t think I would classify even the smallest RMC as a family coaster. If the park wanted to build a family coaster, they should build something like Cobra’s Curse or Slinky Dog Dash (would be redundant with Backlot Stunt Coaster nearby). Anything above 100 feet or contains inversions really isn’t a true family coaster regardless of what some enthusiasts might say. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSourNinja Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 On 5/9/2020 at 10:05 PM, FUN&ONLY! said: While I agree, I don’t think I would classify even the smallest RMC as a family coaster. If the park wanted to build a family coaster, they should build something like Cobra’s Curse or Slinky Dog Dash (would be redundant with Backlot Stunt Coaster nearby). Anything above 100 feet or contains inversions really isn’t a true family coaster regardless of what some enthusiasts might say. what about mystic? It’s over 100 feet but I’d definitely say it is a mid-range or family coaster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofBaconator Posted May 11, 2020 Author Share Posted May 11, 2020 1 hour ago, MrSourNinja said: what about mystic? It’s over 100 feet but I’d definitely say it is a mid-range or family coaster. I used to think that. Mystic was built with families in mind but I do not consider it a family coaster like I would consider Adventure Express or Backlot family coasters. For me its in between Racer and The Beast in terms of intensity. Mystic and Racer have the same speed but Mystic has more intense airtime and pretty rapid transitions. I consider Racer to be more of a family coaster compared to Mystic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUN&ONLY! Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 2 hours ago, SonofBaconator said: I used to think that. Mystic was built with families in mind but I do not consider it a family coaster like I would consider Adventure Express or Backlot family coasters. For me its in between Racer and The Beast in terms of intensity. Mystic and Racer have the same speed but Mystic has more intense airtime and pretty rapid transitions. I consider Racer to be more of a family coaster compared to Mystic. I agree with this. Mystic Timbers is in between a family coaster and an extreme coaster due to its high intensity. It is far above The Racer, The Bat, and Adventure Express in terms of its aggressiveness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSourNinja Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 7 hours ago, FUN&ONLY! said: I agree with this. Mystic Timbers is in between a family coaster and an extreme coaster due to its high intensity. It is far above The Racer, The Bat, and Adventure Express in terms of its aggressiveness. I wouldn’t necessarily disagree either but BLSC has some high positive Gs in that first helix for it to be a family coaster. I’d say that part alone is more intense than any of mystic. Overall intensity is lower for BLSC though. Just depends if you look at overall or the most intense part. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coaster sally Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 10 hours ago, SonofBaconator said: I used to think that. Mystic was built with families in mind but I do not consider it a family coaster like I would consider Adventure Express or Backlot family coasters. For me its in between Racer and The Beast in terms of intensity. Mystic and Racer have the same speed but Mystic has more intense airtime and pretty rapid transitions. I consider Racer to be more of a family coaster compared to Mystic. Mystic has intense airtime? What would you call El Toro's? Mystic is just as intense as Invadr @ bgw, and its considered a family coaster with a lower height limit. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofBaconator Posted May 11, 2020 Author Share Posted May 11, 2020 1 hour ago, coaster sally said: Mystic has intense airtime? What would you call El Toro's? Mystic is just as intense as Invadr @ bgw, and its considered a family coaster with a lower height limit. I'm comparing it to other coasters in Kings Island, not to other parks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuxedoman52 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Mystic has intense airtime? What would you call El Toro's? Mystic is just as intense as Invadr @ bgw, and its considered a family coaster with a lower height limit. I did not find Invadr intense at all, nor did I feel much air.Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastForever Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 Evidently, but not surprisingly, it seem there's vast disagreement with regards to what classifies "family" intermediate, "thrill", or "high-thrill" rides and where the distinctions between all of them are set. And that's fine. We all define things differently... But that having said, to those who consider Mystic Timbers to be little more than a family coaster, I'm curious to know what scale of ride you consider Gold Striker, Thunderhead, Renegade, Prowler, Apocalypse etc? Because by every relevant dimension - height, speed, length, drop, angle etc. - all of MT's stats are basically equivalent to, if not greater than, all the aforementioned coasters. Yet it seems only Mystic Timbers receives the subtly deprecating/diminishing connotation of .... "family" that the other ones don't. In fact, would you believe that it just so happens to be the second-tallest GCI in the world behind only the outlier Wodan? Now of course, that isn't to say that the ride is not popular with families. It is. (inherently, all successful rides are made with "family" audience in mind to some extent, in that they have to be acceptable to a general population of guests) The problem I have with it receiving the "family" mark is when its used in the pejorative sense (as is the case sometimes)... And then there's the issue of, if Mystic is one of GCI's "family coasters", (despite it being the tallest, one of the fastest, and one of the longest in North America), then what does that make what I consider to be their true family coasters in InvadR, Wicker Man, White Lightning etc.? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc3E Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 Evidently, but not surprisingly, it seem there's vast disagreement with regards to what classifies "family" intermediate, "thrill", or "high-thrill" rides and where the distinctions between all of them are set. And that's fine. We all define things differently... But that having said, to those who consider Mystic Timbers to be little more than a family coaster, I'm curious to know what scale of ride you consider Gold Striker, Thunderhead, Renegade, Prowler, Apocalypse etc? Because in every relevant dimension - height, speed, length, drop, angle etc. - all of MT's stats are basically equivalent to, if not greater than, all the aforementioned coasters. Yet it seems only Mystic Timbers receives the subtly deprecating/diminishing connotation of .... "family" that the other ones don't. In fact, would you believe that it just so happens to be the second-tallest GCI in the world behind only the outlier Wodan? Now of course, that isn't to say that the ride is not popular with families. It is. (inherently, all successful rides are made with "family" audience in mind to some extent, in that they have to be acceptable to a general population of guests) The problem I have with it receiving the "family" mark is when its used in the pejorative sense (as is the case sometimes)... And then there's the issue of, if Mystic is one of GCI's "family coasters", (despite it being the tallest, one of the fastest, and one of the longest in North America), then what does that make what I consider to be their true family coasters in InvadR, Wicker Man, White Lightning etc.? yeah i’d have to agree there, Mystic is not a family coaster and shouldn’t be marked as one... it’s still high thrill... just because it’s 109 ft tall does not make it a family coaster... if that was the case then Copperhead Strike would be considered one, and let me tell you that’s NOT a family coaster... oh and Maverick... both of which are WAY too intense to be family coasters... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSourNinja Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 On 5/14/2020 at 6:08 PM, Marc3E said: yeah i’d have to agree there, Mystic is not a family coaster and shouldn’t be marked as one... it’s still high thrill... just because it’s 109 ft tall does not make it a family coaster... if that was the case then Copperhead Strike would be considered one, and let me tell you that’s NOT a family coaster... oh and Maverick... both of which are WAY too intense to be family coasters... I agree. Mystic has some great air time and its back to back elements really doesn't dictate the "family" coaster title. I used the name "family" earlier in the thread but not in a negative connotation. More in the sense that it isn't overly huge compared to some steel coaster and also does no inversions. With height and inversions being the biggest barriers to entry for teens or kids, mystic is a "family" attraction that provides thrill ride thrills. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofBaconator Posted May 15, 2020 Author Share Posted May 15, 2020 Also people assume the term "family" means kids when it doesn't. Family, in my opinion, means an attraction that the younger kids can ride with their grandparents. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenban Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 On 5/14/2020 at 1:08 PM, BeastForever said: In fact, would you believe that it just so happens to be the second-tallest GCI in the world behind only the outlier Wodan? I for one do not believe it because it is a common mistake, but Wodan was not even the tallest GCI when it was built. There is a GCI at a park in China called Knight Valley which opened the year before Wodan and was already taller. But Mystic Timbers is actually the 4th tallest GCI, because Python in Bamboo Forest is also taller, and it’s not even close Python is 160 ft tall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldhudsonjr Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 On 3/12/2020 at 8:27 AM, CoasterJack said: While I would wish for something else, what if in order to fill the gap since Vortex's removal was unexpected, could it be a possibility that Cedar Fair would relocated a Floorless to Kings Island. What if The Vortex came from Carowinds and we had another Vortex, of course that would confuse the GP. But since the park just spent $30M on a new giga, a relocated Floorless might not be a bad idea, kind of like relocating Dominator to KD from Geauga Lake. It would get new life at a different park. This would be extremely annoying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofBaconator Posted August 10, 2020 Author Share Posted August 10, 2020 8 hours ago, ldhudsonjr said: This would be extremely annoying. That would be like New England getting a second boomerang annoying. At least send it to a more deserving park like Worlds of Fun, Valleyfair or someone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 hour ago, SonofBaconator said: That would be like New England getting a second boomerang annoying. At least send it to a more deserving park like Worlds of Fun, Valleyfair or someone Just read your post and then had to look that up. Wow—they have both the sit down and giant inverted model. Give them the Invertigo from SFA and let them complete the trifecta! Also, because I went down an SFNE rabbit hole—they started building a Dark Knight indoor coaster and then.... never opened it? Edit: the rabbit hole continues, how many wild mouse coasters does this park need? The hell‽ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coaster sally Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said: Just read your post and then had to look that up. Wow—they have both the sit down and giant inverted model. Give them the Invertigo from SFA and let them complete the trifecta! Also, because I went down an SFNE rabbit hole—they started building a Dark Knight indoor coaster and then.... never opened it? It opened later thanks to kk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Just now, coaster sally said: It opened later thanks to kk. I think that's a different coaster. It looks like SFNE was building the indoor Dark Knight coaster, stopped, and then that went to Six Flags Mexico. Later, they got the relocated Roadrunner wild mouse from SFKK (and named it after the Dark Knight as well, but not the same Dark Knight from the films/2008 movie that the indoor ones were themed after). All this on top of already having a spinning wild mouse coaster from 2005... and now two boomerangs. @SonofBaconator am I getting that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofBaconator Posted August 10, 2020 Author Share Posted August 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said: Just read your post and then had to look that up. Wow—they have both the sit down and giant inverted model. Give them the Invertigo from SFA and let them complete the trifecta! Also, because I went down an SFNE rabbit hole—they started building a Dark Knight indoor coaster and then.... never opened it? Yeah SFNE is a weird park. From what I hear Superman and Wicked Cyclone superb but after them its just a lineup that's reminiscent of SFA, maybe a little better. I have no clue @Gordon Bombay, I'm not an expert on Six Flags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coaster sally Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Meant they eventually got their wild mouse. If they kept the original giant boomerang trains that ride would be top 3 in the park. Premier destroyed the ride experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said: Yeah SFNE is a weird park. From what I hear Superman and Wicked Cyclone superb but after them its just a lineup that's reminiscent of SFA, maybe a little better. I have no clue @Gordon Bombay, I'm not an expert on Six Flags Did some digging (aka I looked on Wikipedia). This seems to be how it went... 2002: "Batman - The Dark Knight," a B&M Floorless roller coaster debuts. 2003: No significant wild mouse nonsense 2004: No significant wild mouse nonsense 2005: Six Flags New England gets "Mr. Six's Pandemonium," a spinning Wild Mouse coaster. 2006: Mr. Six's is simply renamed "Pandemonium" because, go figure, the "Mr. Six" character means nothing. 2007: SFNE announces "The Dark Knight," an indoor wild mouse roller coaster themed to the 2008 film of the same name. 2008: "Batman - The Dark Knight" (floorless coaster) is set to be renamed to "Batman: The Ride" so that "Dark Knight (indoor wild mouse) can debut. However, there's a permit issue with the local municipality and SFNE ships the ride off to Mexico instead. 2009: The B&M floorless reverts back to "Batman - The Dark Knight" 2010: Only one wild mouse exists. 2011: SFNE receives SFKK's relocated "Roadrunner Express" and despite having never learned anything about how terribly they name their rides and market their rides, they call this thing: "Gotham City Gauntlet Escape from Arkham Asylum." Present Day: SFNE has two boomerangs and two wild mouse coasters. What a world. On Topic: KI should install a mediocre stand-up coaster in Vortex's spot and then add floorless trains to it after a few years. Two new rides for the price of one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofBaconator Posted August 10, 2020 Author Share Posted August 10, 2020 @Gordon Bombay that's why I was never a fan of Six Flags as a company. Their business decisions and ideologies are a joke, their additions are lazy, and they don't see the potential in making proper investments. SFNE is in a good market serving the New England market with just under 10 million individuals in a 75 mile radius. I know they don't have a major highway connection like we do but still, there's potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coaster sally Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 @SonofBaconator SFNE does have a mediocre floorless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofBaconator Posted August 10, 2020 Author Share Posted August 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, coaster sally said: @SonofBaconator SFNE does have a mediocre floorless A lot of their coasters seem mediocre besides Superman and Wicked Cyclone. It just seems like it could be a much better park than it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 On the subject of a floorless—one in Vortex's former spot wouldn't necessarily be a bad fit. You'd get a nice, smooth, reliable B&M ride that could feature multiple inversions (a marketable aspect). Could also be cool to see the return of the normal B&M sit-down model. A smooth-as-glass multi-inverter would "round out" the park's lineup so to speak, replacing something that's now gone. In terms of a Dive Machine or Wing Coaster—that's a prominent spot of land and a large attraction there could really be a neat postcard spot/marquee ride for the park. A dive coaster would also seem to follow the "trends" if there's anything to read in those tea leaves. For the most part, Cedar Fair seems focused on high-capacity, thrilling, reliable attractions. Does that sound like Mack and Intamin? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofBaconator Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Gordon Bombay said: On the subject of a floorless—one in Vortex's former spot wouldn't necessarily be a bad fit. You'd get a nice, smooth, reliable B&M ride that could feature multiple inversions (a marketable aspect). Could also be cool to see the return of the normal B&M sit-down model. A smooth-as-glass multi-inverter would "round out" the park's lineup so to speak, replacing something that's now gone. It would be awesome to have something like Kumba, Medusa, or even Kraken (which I've heard nothing but good things about) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coaster sally Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Gordon Bombay said: On the subject of a floorless—one in Vortex's former spot wouldn't necessarily be a bad fit. You'd get a nice, smooth, reliable B&M ride that could feature multiple inversions (a marketable aspect). Could also be cool to see the return of the normal B&M sit-down model. A smooth-as-glass multi-inverter would "round out" the park's lineup so to speak, replacing something that's now gone. In terms of a Dive Machine or Wing Coaster—that's a prominent spot of land and a large attraction there could really be a neat postcard spot/marquee ride for the park. A dive coaster would also seem to follow the "trends" if there's anything to read in those tea leaves. For the most part, Cedar Fair seems focused on high-capacity, thrilling, reliable attractions. Does that sound like Mack and Intamin? High capacity and reliable attractions. Dont know about thrilling. They did purchase hangtime, copperhead, and Mystic Timbers. Those rides are low to mid capacity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastForever Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 On 8/9/2020 at 6:18 PM, Kenban said: I for one do not believe it because it is a common mistake, but Wodan was not even the tallest GCI when it was built. There is a GCI at a park in China called Knight Valley which opened the year before Wodan and was already taller. But Mystic Timbers is actually the 4th tallest GCI, because Python in Bamboo Forest is also taller, and it’s not even close Python is 160 ft tall. I had a feeling that one or both of those may have been taller. However, the omission of their height stats led me to infer that their terrain/elevation changes were more significant thus making the height more or less irrelevant. But upon further looking at them, I can see that they're a bit taller than I had thought. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Meyer Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 If they decide to put a Floorless roller coaster in the former vacancy of Vortex, they could use the terrain to their advantage. An example would be similar to how they built Orion with the first drop. The first hill could climb up the same way Vortex did; then turn and drop! The rest of the layout would be up to Kings Island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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