CGA is closing, should we be concerned about Canada’s Wonderland

[disco2000]

^+1 this!

A developer buying 25 acres is one thing.  One developer purchasing 300+ acres at that cost/acre and the lag time associated from purchase to approval to build to occupancy would mean that developer has some very deep pockets to afford outlaying that much cash without income on the site for a period of time.  Sure they may have some pre-sales, but probably not enough.

You do realize most developments that fail are a result of a developer over extending their line of credit and run out of cash before a single unit is occupied.  And then someone gets it partially developed at a fraction of the cost in many instances and finishes it off.

A subdivision near me is on its 4 developer for that exact reason.  Now a large national home developer came in and snagged it at a bargain price to finish it out.

[MisterSG1]

Ok, I’m replying here to disco, you first spoke about comparing a movie theatre to a church, that’s not even a completely comparable scenario. This is the property area we are speaking of in which both a multiplex and a Costco are involved.

 

Now the owner of that property wishes to turn that into a condo community as seen here, very different than a church. Not to sound smug, but a church can’t exactly be residence space for thousands upon thousands of new residents.

 

Again, that’s 25 acres of land, now imagine what you can do with over 300 acres of land. In a metro area which has a huge housing shortage and that will only get worse and worse.

 

Your point about international visitors im kind of shocked to hear and will get back to that, this is a quick reply from my phone for now.

[MisterSG1]

When it comes to international guests at Wonderland, what exactly makes the theme park a draw? Other than just being a secondary attraction in Toronto. What is it at Wonderland that one couldn’t do at theme parks across Europe and elsewhere. There’s nothing exactly “spectacular” about Wonderland.

I mentioned Disneyland Paris because despite being the most visited tourist attraction in the Paris area, I’m sure you never hear of people flying over to Paris to visit Disneyland Paris, and this is perhaps the city with the most famous city attractions in the world like the Eiffel Tower, Louvre for example.

Toronto cannot even fall back on such world class attractions, the only thing somewhat that’s a big one is the CN Tower, but it hasn’t been the highest observation deck since 2007.

[MisterSG1]

And finally you spoke of people seeing a ballgame in Toronto.

Uh yeah, the SkyDome, that’s the equivalent of having the best VCR ever made, you are made totally obsolete when DVD players and DVRs came around. Seeing a game at the Skydome is more or less like seeing a game at Riverfront with a retractable roof, but oh wait, when the skydome’s roof is open, make sure you wore plenty of sunscreen as there’s almost no protection of the elements there.

What other things are there to see and do in Toronto, let’s see

Art Gallery of Ontario and Royal Ontario Museum may be decent museums, but they don’t have a show stopping piece in there that everyone knows and many would pay the price. Such as Starry Night at MoMA.

Hockey Hall of Fame, great place I’ll admit, but really one would only enjoy this place if they followed hockey at all.

Toronto Eaton Centre, very busy place, at the end of the day it is still very much like a large suburban shopping mall despite being downtown.

Yonge-Dundas Square, Toronto wanting to create a space like Times Square or Shibuya, unfortunately the actual “square” is empty most times which makes it feel desolate, and a drug injection site at one corner of the area doesn’t exactly make this area friendly/

Casa Loma, I never understood why tourists flocked here but really it’s just some rich man’s house that he never finished and the city of Toronto seized the property for unpaid taxes. It is NOT an actual castle.

 

Wonderland is actually thus a worthwhile place to go when you look at it.

[Kenban]

1 hour ago, MisterSG1 said:

Again, that’s 25 acres of land, now imagine what you can do with over 300 acres of land. In a metro area which has a huge housing shortage and that will only get worse and worse.

I searched for the project your showing as your example.  That site is 61.7 acres not 25 like you claim.  The companies proposal actually includes property they do not even own.  The company does own the majority of the site and it’s used for a number of retailers in several separate buildings.  Making it very easy to keep sections open and importantly making money while sections are closed and replaced in phases.

Basically your example of “what is possible” is terrible.  The company already owns the majority of the site, so no huge land purchase, buying a site like Wonderland is much harder than your realize, size and cost matter, and bigger is not always better.  Being able to close a small section at a time for redevelopment radically changes how a project is financed and means being able to keep using the rest of the site to generate revenue.  It also allows them to stop at any point if there is an economic downturn or demand just does not exist at a viable price point.  Projects get proposed frequently, and frankly I suspect the majority never happen.

You really don’t seem to understand how business or development works.

[MisterSG1]

When I spoke of 25 Acres, that’s what was written in the BlogTO article I sent earlier, and thus myself and disco took their word for it that the site was 25 acres.

Yes, I understand exactly how this happens, it’s usually one building at a time, like was the case at CityPlace right next to the SkyDome.

Just on the other side of the highway from the Colossus site is the Vaughan Metropolitan Centre in which buildings have been springing up, there’s no way that Colossus project could fail halfway through. But as such a master planned community, most likely all of the colossus Centre would have to be razed before they start working on the new buildings, I understand this would probably take around a decade to finish, but the new buildings are designed around new infrastructure that would go in the area like new streets.

in the Vaughan Metropolitan Centre next door, they have already relocated a Walmart so that the area can be built according to plan. Walmarts in Canada are generally on land owned (or maybe managed) by a group called Smart Centres, who own the site of Vaughan Metropolitan Centre to my knowledge.

When it comes to condos, most likely the entire building will be sold out before the first shovel hits the ground.

[BeeastFarmer]

@MisterSG1 I am tired and have eye strain after reading all of this!  

I think you are worked up over nothing.  I think if the time ever comes that some entity offers Cedar Fair over a billlion dollars for Wonderland, and it's gone, you can stress out then.  But I seem to remember you wanting to leave the area.  If this is the case, i hope you land near a park that you enjoy!

[jsus]

2 minutes ago, BeeastFarmer said:

@MisterSG1 I am tired and have eye strain after reading all of this!  

I think you are worked up over nothing.  I think if the time ever comes that some entity offers Cedar Fair over a billlion dollars for Wonderland, and it's gone, you can stress out then.  But I seem to remember you wanting to leave the area.  If this is the case, i hope you land near a park that you enjoy!

How do I give this more than one trophy?

[IBEW_Sparky]

1 hour ago, jsus said:

How do I give this more than one trophy?

I gave it one for you by proxy.

[FUN&ONLY!]

In this video from Amusement Insiders, he mentions that Canada’s Wonderland is pulling in 3 times the attendance of Kings Island and Cedar Point on a weekday basis. I don’t know how legit that statistic is, but if it is remotely true, I am sure Canada’s Wonderland will be fine.