Tr0y Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 On 4/6/2024 at 2:17 PM, BoddaH1994 said: I don’t know if you were “around” for this, but please jog my memory if you remember. In 2014, wasn’t the All Season Meal Plan originally advertised for being through Labor Day, then they back pedaled and made it actually all season? There might have been a few days between the policy changes (which is implied by the post you shared) but I’m pretty sure they changed it that year. I was around, however I did not have the all season meal plan. So I honestly couldn’t tell you. I just remember how horrible the implementation was of it when it first came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoor Man Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 (edited) On 4/5/2024 at 8:41 AM, DispatchMaster said: I'm not sure why this is relevant? That loan amounts to less than 0.2% of CF's annual revenue. It's barely a rounding error. A tiny fraction. And any earned interest is obviously a tiny fraction of that tiny fraction. Free money is always good, but it's relatively trivial. And it's not like that's free money, since pass holders tend to visit quite frequently per dollar spent, which costs the park money in terms of operating cost. So again, I'm not sure why this is at all relevant. No, I am not a stakeholder of any sort. I haven't even purchased a season pass in a few years. I just find pass holders, who are not the revenue-generating bread and butter they envisions themselves as, who constantly complain about the value they receive while continuing to hand over their money, exhausting. And beyond that, there is such a thing as constructive criticism, but calling every reduction in value or whatever a "bait and switch" is patently ridiculous. Furthermore, even if these were legitimate "bait and switch" actions the parks were doing, it's kind of difficult to take the complaints seriously from people who willingly engage in what appears to be an abusive relationship. So, this is what happens when I unplug and take a long weekend- I end up replying well after the comment is made and moved on from. Humor me. 1) "not sure why it is relevant"... firstly, you took my lower number of $3M- I think it's closer to the $30M number. Either way, to CF's bottom line it may be irrelevant'ish- but to an individual park... different story. I am a long-tenured season pass holder and I'll say I don't cost the park a dime when I go other than expenses they already incur whether I go or not. They still pay the employees (which is a large percentage of operating expenses of any enterprise), they're still paying for electricity, heating/AC, maintenance, landscaping, security, etc... this makes no difference if I go or stay home. So, when I shell out close to $500 annually for my family to have a pass, along with hundreds of thousands of others, this gives the individual park leverage to create budgets: it is relevant and if you don't agree- then not only are you not an attorney- but not good in finance & budgeting either. 2) you're not a stakeholder of any sort, including a SP holder presently? Then you have no horse in this race. 3) You're clearly not happy in these forums... why do you continue to engage and complain about people who clearly "exhaust" you? To quote someone you may know: "it's kind of difficult to take the complaints seriously from people who willingly engage in what appears to be an abusive relationship." -DispatchMaster, April 5, 2024 Edited April 9 by Outdoor Man citing my sources 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 *added for emphasis Coming late to the party, but reading the terms & conditions, it seems clear that the pass purchased is valid only for the park purchased and does not include special events. I'm a bit confused why the season pass TOC is being, for lack of a better term, ignored. 2024 Season Pass Terms and Conditions Summer Season Pass Terms and Conditions Updated August 29, 2023 THE Cedar Fair L.P. TERMS AND CONDITIONS CONTAIN A DISPUTE RESOLUTION AND ARBITRATION PROVISION THAT GOVERN HOW CLAIMS A PASSHOLDER (“PASSHOLDER” OR “YOU”) AND WE HAVE AGAINST EACH OTHER ARE RESOLVED. PLEASE READ THE PROVISION CAREFULLY. IT REQUIRES YOU TO ARBITRATE DISPUTES WITH Cedar Fair AND LIMITS THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU CAN SEEK RELIEF. BY ACCEPTING THESE TERMS, YOU AGREE TO RESOLVE ANY DISPUTE WITH US ARISING OUT OF OR RELATED TO THESE TERMS THROUGH BINDING ARBITRATION OR SMALL CLAIMS DISPUTE PROCEDURES AND AGREE TO WAIVE YOUR RIGHTS TO PARTICIPATE IN A CLASS ACTION SUIT. A Cedar Fair L.P. (“Cedar Fair”) Summer Pass is valid only at the park from which it was issued and grants a revocable license to the registered holder for admission and use of all available rides (unless restricted by conditions that could ultimately prohibit someone from riding safely, including but not limited to height, weight, age, physical limitations such as pregnancy and heart conditions, or observed inappropriate behavior), shows and attractions on any regularly-scheduled operating day of the season to the amusement park or outdoor waterpark for which it was issued. A Summer Pass is valid for only one visit per day, and a readmission hand stamp or pass scan is required for same-day re-entry. No re-entry is permitted on select days throughout the season. Passholders may only possess one valid season pass per season. This pass also does not include admission to park areas not open to the general public or requires a separate admission fee. Fees for parking, food, merchandise, games, pay-per-experience attractions, concerts, and special events are not included unless specifically noted at the end of these terms and conditions on a park-by-park basis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2000 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 1 hour ago, Browntggrr said: *added for emphasis Coming late to the party, but reading the terms & conditions, it seems clear that the pass purchased is valid only for the park purchased and does not include special events. I'm a bit confused why the season pass TOC is being, for lack of a better term, ignored. Dude, you are referencing a summer pass that some parks sold....and you are referencing what they mean by concerts and pay add-ons. A season pass preview has historically been a "special" event that a platinum pass would get someone into any passholder preview night being held regardless of park and regardless of which park was the "home" park. Further they state the the all parks passport is the equivalent to a platinum, which it isn't as it applies to the CP passholder preview. And the additional terms for the All-park Passsport says this with no mention to CP and their passholder preview: Additional Terms and Conditions by location: Canada’s Wonderland – Parking is included with the purchase of a Gold Pass and All Park Passport add-on. Knott’s Berry Farm – Gold or Prestige Pass with the All Park Passport add-on is valid only for admission on any regular scheduled operating day and is not valid for entry to Scary Farm. Parking is included with the purchase of a Gold Pass and All Park Passport add-on. Dorney Park – It is agreed between the Passholder and Cedar Fair that in further consideration of your admission to Dorney Park & Wildwater Kingdom that all claims for injury or loss allegedly incurred or caused while on the premises of Dorney Park & Wildwater Kingdom shall be raised and pursued only in the court of Common Pleas of Lehigh County, Pennsylvania. But we get it, there is a lot of wiggle room in the subject to change clause and we are not stupid and recognize that, and certainly even those willing to stand behind CF are certainly not stupid enough to admit that the language can be contradictory (or are they)....and that the optics are poor.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 7 minutes ago, disco2000 said: Dude, you are referencing a summer pass that some parks sold....and you are referencing what they mean by concerts and pay add-ons. A season pass preview has historically been a "special" event that a platinum pass would get someone into any passholder preview night being held regardless of park and regardless of which park was the "home" park. Further they state the the all parks passport is the equivalent to a platinum, which it isn't as it applies to the CP passholder preview. And the additional terms for the All-park Passsport says this with no mention to CP and their passholder preview: Additional Terms and Conditions by location: Canada’s Wonderland – Parking is included with the purchase of a Gold Pass and All Park Passport add-on. Knott’s Berry Farm – Gold or Prestige Pass with the All Park Passport add-on is valid only for admission on any regular scheduled operating day and is not valid for entry to Scary Farm. Parking is included with the purchase of a Gold Pass and All Park Passport add-on. Dorney Park – It is agreed between the Passholder and Cedar Fair that in further consideration of your admission to Dorney Park & Wildwater Kingdom that all claims for injury or loss allegedly incurred or caused while on the premises of Dorney Park & Wildwater Kingdom shall be raised and pursued only in the court of Common Pleas of Lehigh County, Pennsylvania. But we get it, there is a lot of wiggle room in the subject to change clause and we are not stupid and recognize that, and certainly even those willing to stand behind CF are certainly not stupid enough to admit that the language can be contradictory (or are they)....and that the optics are poor.... Cool... dude... Here is the Prestige part of the terms.: which, ironically, have the same terms as the Summer Pass: Prestige Season Pass Terms and Conditions Updated July 27, 2023 THE Cedar Fair L.P. TERMS AND CONDITIONS CONTAIN A DISPUTE RESOLUTION AND ARBITRATION PROVISION THAT GOVERN HOW CLAIMS A PASSHOLDER (“PASSHOLDER” OR “YOU”) AND WE HAVE AGAINST EACH OTHER ARE RESOLVED. PLEASE READ THE PROVISION CAREFULLY. IT REQUIRES YOU TO ARBITRATE DISPUTES WITH Cedar Fair AND LIMITS THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU CAN SEEK RELIEF. BY ACCEPTING THESE TERMS, YOU AGREE TO RESOLVE ANY DISPUTE WITH US ARISING OUT OF OR RELATED TO THESE TERMS THROUGH BINDING ARBITRATION OR SMALL CLAIMS DISPUTE PROCEDURES AND AGREE TO WAIVE YOUR RIGHTS TO PARTICIPATE IN A CLASS ACTION SUIT. A Cedar Fair L.P. (“Cedar Fair”) Prestige Pass is valid only at the park from which it was issued and grants a revocable license to the registered holder for admission and use of all available rides (unless restricted by conditions that could ultimately prohibit someone from riding safely, including but not limited to height, weight, age, physical limitations such as pregnancy and heart conditions, or observed inappropriate behavior), shows and attractions on any regularly-scheduled operating day of the season to the amusement park or outdoor waterpark for which it was issued. A Prestige Pass is valid for only one visit per day, and a readmission hand stamp or pass scan is required for same-day re-entry. No re-entry is permitted on select days throughout the season. Passholders may only possess one valid season pass per season. This pass also does not include admission to park areas not open to the general public or requires a separate admission fee. Fees for parking, food, merchandise, games, pay-per-experience attractions, concerts, and special events are not included unless expressly noted at the end of these terms and conditions on a park-by-park basis. It is interesting that you bring up "historically". Why would anyone ignore the terms and think that what has happened "historically" in the past will continue? But dive into "historically" even deeper. When has any season pass granted the holder any right prior to the season open? Dude.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2000 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 We get it, another the chain can do no wrong person... Pre sales of passes hinges on the product being comparable and improved upon prior years. That is why historically comes into play.... Clearly they are deviating from that. And clearly some will continue to buy regardless of what the park sells...and clearly some will now wait to see what is being offered. Like I said we get it that it is within their subject to change clause, but tell me the last time a CF park held a pass holder preview and didn't allow platinum pass holders to attend? We will wait... Now they changed the pass structure and claim all park passport is equal to platinum except it isn't as it applies to CP pass holder preview. A 2024 schlitterbahn platinum allows access to CP pass holder preview, but a KI gold+ all park passport does not. Sounds equal to me... Surely you can comprehend that... Just like we comprehend it is within their right to subject to change...but that doesn't mean the optics aren't poor... Or are you okay that the TOC and the FAQ don't necessarily match....but then why have a FAQ???? Again bad optics... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 4 minutes ago, disco2000 said: We get it, another the chain can do no wrong person... Pre sales of passes hinges on the product being comparable and improved upon prior years. Clearly they are deviating from that. And clearly some will continue to buy regardless of what the park sells...and clearly some will now wait to see what is being offered. Like I said we get it that it is within their subject to change clause, but tell me the last time a CF park held a pass holder preview and didn't allow platinum pass holders to attend? We will wait... Now they changed the pass structure and claim all park passport is equal to platinum except it isn't as it applies to CP pass holder preview. Surely you can comprehend that... Just like we comprehend it is within their right to subject to change...but that doesn't mean the optics aren't poor... So terms and conditions mean nothing and is now considered a "subject to change" clause? Interesting. The season pass sales are comparable to prior years- you get into the park from opening day. "Improved upon" is a vague opinion. The only structure that has changed is your interpretation of what you want it to be. Any pass purchased in any year did not include special park events unless noted, and since we all know the Preview Days were not included with the purchase of any 2024 pass, this is no surprise. Surely you can comprehend that..... The optics are only poor to those that did not read the terms and conditions. I have zero problem to agree to disagree. Your shoehorning of "We get it, another the chain can do no wrong person..." just because someone disagrees with you is a pathetic form of manipulating the discussion. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2000 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 So in your mind, it is fair that a 2024 Schlitt platinum pass holder can get into the CP pass holder preview whereas a KI gold + all park passport holder doesn't, even though the FAQ says the passes are the same and those complaining are just adorable as they are predictable cry-babies... And I guess a passholder preview is not considered a benefit to passholders either.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 There is no "in your mind" as that includes interpretations & assumptions. The only time passholders were permitted access to a special event is when it was noted prior to the pass purchase either in the terms & conditions or otherwise noted for each individual park pass. I suggest those who are unhappy with the agreed upon terms & conditions when the pass was purchased seek out customer service. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DispatchMaster Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 17 hours ago, Browntggrr said: Your shoehorning of "We get it, another the chain can do no wrong person..." just because someone disagrees with you is a pathetic form of manipulating the discussion. Agreed. Dude's (or dudette) ad hominem nonsense is insufferable. Best advice is to ignore and move on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DispatchMaster Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 22 hours ago, Outdoor Man said: ...I don't cost the park a dime when I go other than expenses they already incur whether I go or not. That... is quite obviously not true. How is it possible that someone who has "owned a handful of businesses in the past decade" is somehow unaware of variable costs? That's wild. 22 hours ago, Outdoor Man said: ...when I shell out close to $500 annually for my family to have a pass... This perfectly distills down the enthusiast/pass holder entitlement attitude. That anyone would think spending $500 for several months of something is more than trivial is deluding themselves. The annual visitor is almost always going to spend more than that on a single/few visit(s). Hell, we've spent more than that PER DAY on occasion, in addition to our passes. And I'm not bragging, as we are NOT wealthy, extravagant visitors. Just a middle class family that likes to splurge on vacations when possible. And the park is filled with people like us, visiting a few times per year while contributing vastly higher per caps than the pass holder who visits 4 times a week all summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr0y Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said: This perfectly distills down the enthusiast/pass holder entitlement attitude. That anyone would think spending $500 for several months of something is more than trivial is deluding themselves. The annual visitor is almost always going to spend more than that on a single/few visit(s). Hell, we've spent more than that PER DAY on occasion, in addition to our passes. And I'm not bragging, as we are NOT wealthy, extravagant visitors. Just a middle class family that likes to splurge on vacations when possible. And the park is filled with people like us, visiting a few times per year while contributing vastly higher per caps than the pass holder who visits 4 times a week all summer. A single visitor is not going to outspend a season passholder if you factor in the entirety of the season. We've had this discussion previously. Also you elude to an annual visitor spending more than $500 for a single / few visits? I highly doubt that. Unless we are talking about a visitor who is also staying in a park owned hotel / resort. Kings Island has no park owned overnight lodging options. And I'm willing to discuss that the average passholder is not visiting anywhere near as often you claim they are. More than likely CF prices their season passes based of how many times the average passholder visits VS an "enthusiast" is not your average passholder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DispatchMaster Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 38 minutes ago, Tr0y said: A single visitor is not going to outspend a season passholder if you factor in the entirety of the season. No, but a single visitor is at least as likely, if not moreso, to produce positive ROI per than a pass holder. So, while a non-pass holder visits less frequently, they tend to spend far more per visit, and because each visit by a guest incurs a cost to the park, the profit margins for a non-pass holder are higher. In other words, pass holders are not the most desirable customer, and certainly aren't as important as some assume they are. I mean, just look at it from a value perspective. The more of a value someone is getting out of a pass, the less positive ROI the park is realizing from that customer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr0y Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said: No, but a single visitor is at least as likely, if not moreso, to produce positive ROI per than a pass holder. So, while a non-pass holder visits less frequently, they tend to spend far more per visit, and because each visit by a guest incurs a cost to the park, the profit margins for a non-pass holder are higher. In other words, pass holders are not the most desirable customer, and certainly aren't as important as some assume they are. I mean, just look at it from a value perspective. The more of a value someone is getting out of a pass, the less positive ROI the park is realizing from that customer. Yes, and we both agree and came to that conclusion last time this subject was brought up, but that is ONLY the single day visitor. But on the topic of passholders and their importance. Do you think Kings Island which is not a destination park with hotels like Cedar Point, Universal, or Disney could survive with just single ticket holders? I'm in the camp of that wouldn't be the case. Last year on multiple occasions single day tickets were reduced, sometimes as low as $20! Just based off the numbers a ticket right now to get in plus parking, is around $75. A gold pass is in the ballpark of $150. So, for every individual passholder the money they spent is equivalent to 2 single day visitors. Kings Island does not have the market area to make that up if people only visited once a year, and they certainly wouldn't be getting anywhere near the number of visitors in a season. And once you factor in the dining and drink add on's being eliminated. People would return to eating off site or in the parking lot. I think passholders are quite important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoor Man Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 5 hours ago, DispatchMaster said: That... is quite obviously not true. How is it possible that someone who has "owned a handful of businesses in the past decade" is somehow unaware of variable costs? That's wild. This perfectly distills down the enthusiast/pass holder entitlement attitude. That anyone would think spending $500 for several months of something is more than trivial is deluding themselves. The annual visitor is almost always going to spend more than that on a single/few visit(s). Hell, we've spent more than that PER DAY on occasion, in addition to our passes. And I'm not bragging, as we are NOT wealthy, extravagant visitors. Just a middle class family that likes to splurge on vacations when possible. And the park is filled with people like us, visiting a few times per year while contributing vastly higher per caps than the pass holder who visits 4 times a week all summer. I don't want to split hairs but I think your terminology is a bit off. I didn't finish college with a Finance degree but was many classes in before I switched. And, forgive me because my recollection of certain term meanings as they pertain to day to day operating costs fade into the background- your comparison of "Variable Costs" doesn't see to fit here. To make sure I looked up several exact definitions: " Variable costs are any expenses that change based on how much a company produces and sells, such as labor, utility expenses, commissions, and raw materials. " So, my mere presence walking the paths or riding a ride doesn't affect any operational piece of the park. These ere on the side more of Fixed Costs (though, in their nature are variable I guess).... employees are there anyway. Actors in shows perform anyway. Lights are on, grass is mowed, landscaping is kept, rides operate, etc... These things occur whether or not I enter the park or not. I'll leave open the possibility that you're approaching this from another angle... but on the surface it sounds wrong. That you call anyone who spends their money on a company's product (or service) as entitled.... I sure hope you don't work for KI/CF. $500 isn't a large expense (for passes) for our family- but it is for some. Despite this, though, is does get categorized into our "discretionary spending." A KI Season Pass is a non-essential expense that is not necessary for basic needs. This discourse has gone way off the rails of the original comment by Boddha a while ago of "he wishes he knew"- or something like that. Though we haven't officially purchased our passes yet we probably will. Though if it seems like staff feels that we are entitled... I can spend that elsewhere too. My original comment lamented that in my previous experience with owning season passes there have been times where things were offered or implied that didn't pan out as expected. We've continued to purchase anyway. But, if you want to poke holes in someone's personal/actual experience- go ahead, you seem to like to get the last word in to prove you're right. I'll make mine easy- i won't reply further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted April 11 Author Share Posted April 11 On 4/10/2024 at 3:18 PM, Outdoor Man said: I don't want to split hairs but I think your terminology is a bit off. I didn't finish college with a Finance degree but was many classes in before I switched. And, forgive me because my recollection of certain term meanings as they pertain to day to day operating costs fade into the background- your comparison of "Variable Costs" doesn't see to fit here. To make sure I looked up several exact definitions: " Variable costs are any expenses that change based on how much a company produces and sells, such as labor, utility expenses, commissions, and raw materials. " So, my mere presence walking the paths or riding a ride doesn't affect any operational piece of the park. These ere on the side more of Fixed Costs (though, in their nature are variable I guess).... employees are there anyway. Actors in shows perform anyway. Lights are on, grass is mowed, landscaping is kept, rides operate, etc... These things occur whether or not I enter the park or not. I'll leave open the possibility that you're approaching this from another angle... but on the surface it sounds wrong. That you call anyone who spends their money on a company's product (or service) as entitled.... I sure hope you don't work for KI/CF. $500 isn't a large expense (for passes) for our family- but it is for some. Despite this, though, is does get categorized into our "discretionary spending." A KI Season Pass is a non-essential expense that is not necessary for basic needs. This discourse has gone way off the rails of the original comment by Boddha a while ago of "he wishes he knew"- or something like that. Though we haven't officially purchased our passes yet we probably will. Though if it seems like staff feels that we are entitled... I can spend that elsewhere too. My original comment lamented that in my previous experience with owning season passes there have been times where things were offered or implied that didn't pan out as expected. We've continued to purchase anyway. But, if you want to poke holes in someone's personal/actual experience- go ahead, you seem to like to get the last word in to prove you're right. I'll make mine easy- i won't reply further. He works there. He's also being fed some pretty bad lines about season pass holders by someone who wears a different colored name tag than him. If you want to enjoy the park because you love the park then you should still go. If you want to go somewhere that you will honestly be valued as a guest then you should get a Dollywood pass. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 On 4/10/2024 at 9:27 AM, DispatchMaster said: Agreed. Dude's (or dudette) ad hominem nonsense is insufferable. Best advice is to ignore and move on. While I don't appreciate the lack of respect, I do respect the passion for defending their point of view. Looking back, I am not innocent myself of the same indiscretions. I suppose getting older does that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DispatchMaster Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 On 4/10/2024 at 3:18 PM, Outdoor Man said: These things occur whether or not I enter the park or not. Do you ride anything during the season? Purchase anything? Use the bathroom? Park your car on site? If the answer to any of those or similar questions is "yes", then the park you're visiting is incurring additional costs based on your use of those amenities. Rides need maintained, purchases in stores incur a cost to the park, bathrooms utilize consumable resources, etc. All of this is common knowledge to anyone who's worked in or around a customer-facing business, and should certainly be intimately familiar to anyone who has run a business. On 4/11/2024 at 7:36 PM, BoddaH1994 said: He works there. This pathetic "joke" was old before the first time you used it. If the best defense or contribution to the discussion you can muster is "har har, must be their lawyer LOLOLOSZZZ!!!!!111!!", that speaks volumes about you. Do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoor Man Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 On 4/15/2024 at 7:46 AM, DispatchMaster said: Do you ride anything during the season? Purchase anything? Use the bathroom? Park your car on site? If the answer to any of those or similar questions is "yes", then the park you're visiting is incurring additional costs based on your use of those amenities. Rides need maintained, purchases in stores incur a cost to the park, bathrooms utilize consumable resources, etc. All of this is common knowledge to anyone who's worked in or around a customer-facing business, and should certainly be intimately familiar to anyone who has run a business. This pathetic "joke" was old before the first time you used it. If the best defense or contribution to the discussion you can muster is "har har, must be their lawyer LOLOLOSZZZ!!!!!111!!", that speaks volumes about you. Do better. 'Master, a majority of your posts tend to be exceedingly full of sprite to prove to yourself that you are RIGHT. Yes, I park there (I pay for it too....). I usually ride <10 rides a year probably (I just paid $140 for a Season Pass). I tend to not use the restrooms there because they are disgusting, and not all the park's fault. Seemingly grown men who cannot hit a large target like a urinal in front of them feel the need to try their luck at a toilet and proceed to leave urine all over the seat and floor. Again, that's not the Park's fault. But, I just dropped $1,200+ to the park last Saturday... and YES, guests should have some level of expectation that goes along with spending their money there. I can only assume you do work there or had at one time as a disgruntled hourly with a bad guest experience. Otherwise, this is a strange hill for a random person on a fan site (who admittedly hasn't purchased a pass in years) to set up camp on. Again, just say "thank you." While I'm at it, how many businesses have you run? I have owned several: consultancies, a financial services company, and a marketing/web agency, and misfired on a couple. While there are certain aspects of a business that one would be intimately familiar with, if I owned a predominantly outdoor venue I would view cars in the parking lot as paying customers not liabilities to the parking lot. Wouldn't concern myself with the number of times the toilet flushed- unless there was a leak. Flushing toilets mean there are guests present. I imagine if you ran an entertainment-focused business you would be genuinely pi**ed when guests came; that's a solid business model, by the way. And Boddha saying you work there. I'm willing to be you do... or at least did at one time. I know you're not a lawyer, or have had any relevant Law classes. No lawyer worth $5/hour would be posting such strong-spirited opinions on fansite pages. I'm not sure how you can come across as level-headed on other KIC threads, but have such thin skin and unwilling to acknowledge opposite opinions to yours exist on this one. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DispatchMaster Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I merely pointed out the existence of variable costs, one of the most basic business/finance principles around, because you seemed - and seem intent on continuing to be - ignorant of the concept. Which, again, is strikingly odd for a successful businessman. I did not suggest, imply, nor state that customers are "liabilities", so you can go ahead and set fire to that half-assed straw man. I pointed out that every customer, even those who apparently have urostomy and/or colostomy bags, carry a cost to the business, however small and incremental. I point this out to flesh out the argument against the self-entitled attitude of your basic pass holder. You know, the kind that might expect a "thank you" and a parade for spending over an entire year what other guests spend in a weekend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeastFarmer Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I don't know how Cedar Fair accounts for pass sales, buy they certainly want people to have repeat visits, use the drink plan, use FunPix and the meal plan. Higher attendance from passholders looks good on quarterly reports and many passholders will purchase overpriced goods and services while they are in the park, hence the per caps. I used to work in an industry that allows clients to prepay for a years worth of services and get a discount on said services. All this money went to corporate to. E aggregated across the country and earn interest. As a service was performed, the branch would get a "credit" on the P&L. Of course there were extras that were not in the prepaid package that were upsell opportunities. At the end of the calendar year, if a customer didn't get all the services that they prepaid for, corporate would issue a check after the yearly books were closed. The branch was charged this amount plus a penalty that went against their P&L statement. This incentivized the branches to complete the prepaid services and upsell. Id conjecture that Cedar Fair has a similar system, but instead of services, it's visits, photos, meal plan redemptions, etc. But I could be wrong. All the money goes into the same pot, but like our branches were incentivized to perform, parks are incentivized to encourage attendance and therefore per caps. This works well in theory at least, until corporate cuts the budget and causes attendance to spiral downward, which it will if this short term cheapness goes on for another couple of seasons. Living away from Kings Island ( (Lexington area), I've heard several people in my circles say they won't renew this year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoor Man Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 On 4/24/2024 at 8:49 AM, DispatchMaster said: I merely pointed out the existence of variable costs, one of the most basic business/finance principles around, because you seemed - and seem intent on continuing to be - ignorant of the concept. Which, again, is strikingly odd for a successful businessman. I did not suggest, imply, nor state that customers are "liabilities", so you can go ahead and set fire to that half-assed straw man. I pointed out that every customer, even those who apparently have urostomy and/or colostomy bags, carry a cost to the business, however small and incremental. I point this out to flesh out the argument against the self-entitled attitude of your basic pass holder. You know, the kind that might expect a "thank you" and a parade for spending over an entire year what other guests spend in a weekend... Again, you provide your typical spiteful response. I didn't say you thought customers were liabilities. If you re-read it was that you view cars in the parking lot as liabilities- which you implied cause wear and tear on said lot. Which, while is true... it is also indicative of guests on premise. You use words like: ignorant, strikingly odd, straw man, half-assed- I'm guessing you're, at most, age 21, not a college grad or student, only have opinions about business ownership but haven't had such experience. have never had to deal with a differing opinion and can only name-call to feel like you have the upper hand... not to mention probably don't pay your own expenses.... Am I close? Yes, I requested a "parade".... I just dropped $1,200+ to the park last week, the last thing I would expect a CF employee (or someone who hasn't bought a pass in years) to call me is entitled. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2000 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 10 hours ago, Outdoor Man said: Again, you provide your typical spiteful response. I didn't say you thought customers were liabilities. If you re-read it was that you view cars in the parking lot as liabilities- which you implied cause wear and tear on said lot. Which, while is true... it is also indicative of guests on premise. You use words like: ignorant, strikingly odd, straw man, half-assed- I'm guessing you're, at most, age 21, not a college grad or student, only have opinions about business ownership but haven't had such experience. have never had to deal with a differing opinion and can only name-call to feel like you have the upper hand... not to mention probably don't pay your own expenses.... Am I close? Yes, I requested a "parade".... I just dropped $1,200+ to the park last week, the last thing I would expect a CF employee (or someone who hasn't bought a pass in years) to call me is entitled. You forgot to add he also uses phrases like caveat emptor, ad nauseum, insufferable and other similar phrases to make him sound like an attorney or wannabe - who else uses those kind of words LOL. I am waiting for him to reply to you that you have presented an unequivocally preposterous fallacious straw man allegation and to reply to me that I am an insufferable ad nauseum provocateur that is as adorable as it is predictable He sure does get all excited like a Banshee though when talking about legal subjects... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoor Man Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 2 hours ago, disco2000 said: You forgot to add he also uses phrases like caveat emptor, ad nauseum, insufferable and other similar phrases to make him sound like an attorney or wannabe - who else uses those kind of words LOL. I am waiting for him to reply to you that you have presented unequivocally fallacious straw man allegations and to reply to me that I am an insufferable ad nauseum troll that is as adorable as it is predictable He sure does get all excited like a Banshee though when talking about legal subjects... Ummmm, guilty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.