Is Cedar Fair is the new owner of Paramount Parks?

[CoastersRZ]

The Interpreter, it was not obvious when Paramount Parks was sided on the CBS side that they would be selling the parks. Keep in mind that the parks bring in money, but are not a high growth item. That is one of the main reasons for the split of Viacom. THe high growth companies on the Viacom side, with the lower growth (but still profitable) companies on the CBS side. In short, the parks seemed to fit the financial strategy of CBS better (at least for the investors) than when they were a part of the larger Viacom.

Ultimately, CBS must not want to run the parks, or is not see as much profit from the parks as they would like. I would imagine that the parks make a pretty nice profit. But the amount of the profit that must be reinvested in the parks as capital expenditures to maintain that profit could be one of the reasons CBS wants out. There is not much return on the investment.

[The Interpreter]

I said only it was obvious to many of us...the parks did not fit with the other sorts of companies put on the CBS side...just as GE's NBC doesn't seem too thrilled to be in the park business either. It's kind of funny, when you look back, that Viacom moved the parks from Paramount Studios to its Blockbuster unit after it bought Paramount, after Paramount had purchased KECO and, along with it, Lindner's interest in PKI. . .

[CoastersNSich]

...and service?

Surely you jest!

Ever buy a pass from Cedar Fair?

How long did you wait in line to get it processed?

Compare to Paramount Parks.

I agree that it is easier to buy season passes at PKI, as they have more sales windows and processing stations. However, at CP, passholders can renew their passes by mail, having their IDs mailed to them, so they don't have to wait in line for next year's pass.

Service?

Try reriding ANY coaster.

You can reride coasters at Cedar Fair parks, though you have to go back around. It may be a pain in the ass, but at least they're being consistent.

Some coasters at PKI, however, don't allow re-rides (without leaving the station), such as Son of Beast, Italian Job, and Flight of Fear.

In addition, CP has greeters that check height at the ride entrance to all the major rides, as well as line separators of on coasters like Dragster and Millennium Force.

Have you been to Racer on a normal day? They have to check height in the station so often - go to CP - you almost never see this happen, as their associates do this before guests enter the line.

Service?

Have a problem and talk to guest relations.

I'm willing to bet that people have had issues with Guest Relations at PKI as well. Back in 2002, when many of the rides were closed on an August Sunday, as well as a poorly-run concert at TimberWolf, I went to guest relations. I thought they could care less about my bad day.

Yes, guest relations at some parks can be surly, but Cedar Point is not exclusive to this problem. Six Flags parks, in previous years, were the epitome of this B.S.

Sorry, Paramount Parks has CF beat to pieces in service.

I'm also curious why there's no sit down table-service restaurants at the Hollywood-style theme park, while the big amusement park on Lake Erie has several.

Also at PKI, you don't see traffic control on the level that CP has.

I really hate for this to become a CP vs. PKI thread, but if someone is going to question my points, I'll happily back them up with some counter-arguments and evidence.

[cewldre]

Here is my thing though.  Six Flags just had poor mangment.  They have some great park such as Great Adventure and Magic Moutain but since they have alot of smaller parks that lose money that is where they have thier downfall.  Cedar Fair parks are all great quality.  With them buying Paramount (if they did) they would be buying an all ready sussfull chain and not a chain they would have to pull out of the water.

Ok...I give up.

You're right--there would be absolutely no risk if CF were to finance $1B to acquire a company as big as themselves. (After all, these kinds of mergers are always successful...) Doubling your annual revenue completely alleviates any concerns over quadrupling your debt. While CF is at it, they should consider buying Disney and Busch as well...afterall, they are both well-managed, profitable companies, so the cost and effort of acquiring them is a meaningless detail.

I wish I could find the link, someone help me out...

The parks are worth more than 1B, in fact, KI was estimated to go for around 2-3B alone and 13B for the set of parks... I think CF is going to need more money.

[familyman]

Not this again. We will find out when the rest of the public finds out and not one minute more. A deal this big would never leak out unless they wanted it to. This seems to be another try and stirring up another string of wasted space on here.

[cewldre]

Not this again. We will find out when the rest of the public finds out and not one minute more. A deal this big would never leak out unless they wanted it to. This seems to be another try and stirring up another string of wasted space on here.

I agree with that assessment. Please, relax. We can all bash or praise the sale when it becomes public and not told to us by a "reliable" HR associate at Cedar Point

[BoddaH1994]

I wish I could find the link, someone help me out...

The parks are worth more than 1B, in fact, KI was estimated to go for around 2-3B alone and 13B for the set of parks... I think CF is going to need more money.

I've always heard figures of 300 million for PKI alone and around 1.2 for the chain, but you do make a valid point. If CP were to acquire a company as large as themselves, it would be more like a merger than anything.

Ok...I give up.

You're right--there would be absolutely no risk if CF were to finance $1B to acquire a company as big as themselves. (After all, these kinds of mergers are always successful...) Doubling your annual revenue completely alleviates any concerns over quadrupling your debt. While CF is at it, they should consider buying Disney and Busch as well...afterall, they are both well-managed, profitable companies, so the cost and effort of acquiring them is a meaningless detail.

I disagree with that. Granted, on the surface it looks like they'd double their revenue, etc etc etc. But if that theory is true, wouldn't Six Flags be on top? They own more parks than any chain, so they SHOULD have the biggest revenue. The problem is they're TOO big, which is something a CP/PP merger could face. If SF only owned their most profitable parks and cut out all of the fat, they'd probably be a big competitor... much bigger than they are now.

I said only it was obvious to many of us...the parks did not fit with the other sorts of companies put on the CBS side...just as GE's NBC doesn't seem too thrilled to be in the park business either. It's kind of funny, when you look back, that Viacom moved the parks from Paramount Studios to its Blockbuster unit after it bought Paramount, after Paramount had purchased KECO and, along with it, Lindner's interest in PKI. . .

You're absolutely right. Viacom has always piddled with dumping the parks. Then again (and not to beat a WAY dead horse) it's all about the growth. When PP was owned by Paramount (Tristar) they saw it as a great opportunity to promote their movies, which just never really panned out.

[flightoffear1996]

I disagree with that. Granted, on the surface it looks like they'd double their revenue, etc etc etc. But if that theory is true, wouldn't Six Flags be on top? They own more parks than any chain, so they SHOULD have the biggest revenue. The problem is they're TOO big, which is something a CP/PP merger could face. If SF only owned their most profitable parks and cut out all of the fat, they'd probably be a big competitor... much bigger than they are now.

Like I have said in theroy when mangment runs things right and they know they are doing then they should be able to make money. Six Flags only has a few parks that are worth noting and most of thier parks are run down and losing money and six flags keeps pouring money into the nicer parks instead of upgrading the bad ones to make them nice. That is why they have them selfs in a big hole.

If Cedar Fair did things right they could manage this problem.

[Gordon Bombay]

^Everyone's a big intelligent corporate executive with experience in corporate management and leadership.

[jzarley]

I said only it was obvious to many of us...the parks did not fit with the other sorts of companies put on the CBS side...just as GE's NBC doesn't seem too thrilled to be in the park business either. It's kind of funny, when you look back, that Viacom moved the parks from Paramount Studios to its Blockbuster unit after it bought Paramount, after Paramount had purchased KECO and, along with it, Lindner's interest in PKI. . .

Ever get the feeling that Sumner Redstone never really saw much value in the theme park business? You're right...the parks got passed around in reorg after reorg. After acquiring Paramount, they moved the park into a "retail & recreation" group under Blockbuster. Later, they were moved under "MTV Networks" (Nick, basically). They went from reporting to Mooves, to Freston, and back to Mooves again. The move to CBS pretty much sealed their fate. (I'm sure Simon & Schuster isn't far behind...it'll probably be a much harder sale, though.)

It's sad too, because I think that Paramount Studios probably had a real vision for what they wanted to do with the parks, but that was set aside when they were acquired by Viacom.

Many people on this board have made comments over the years about how Viacom just didn't seem to "get it" regarding the opportunities for synergy with the parks, and I couldn't agree more. They've never even came close to the mastery of Disney when it came to maximizing the value of their parks for cross promotion...even NBC moved in to maximize the synergy with their parks soon after the merger. (And, as you pointed out...they didn't even want them.)

I feel bad for the management of Paramount Parks. From all signs, they've done an excellent job in building attendance and revenue in a very competitive environment. I would imagine they've felt somewhat under appreciated by the senior management of Viacom/CBS.

I hope the new owners (whoever they are) appreciate the value of what they're getting...

[hauntguy]

I hope it's not CF, but maybe Universal or Busch... But like all, I'll just have to wait and see. -Hauntguy

PS: I wonder what would happen to seasonal events? I know tickets for "Winterfest" are already for sale... But what about Fearfest or the 4th of July Celebration?

[jzarley]

Ok...I give up.

You're right--there would be absolutely no risk if CF were to finance $1B to acquire a company as big as themselves. (After all, these kinds of mergers are always successful...) Doubling your annual revenue completely alleviates any concerns over quadrupling your debt. While CF is at it, they should consider buying Disney and Busch as well...afterall, they are both well-managed, profitable companies, so the cost and effort of acquiring them is a meaningless detail.

I disagree with that. Granted, on the surface it looks like they'd double their revenue, etc etc etc. But if that theory is true, wouldn't Six Flags be on top? They own more parks than any chain, so they SHOULD have the biggest revenue. The problem is they're TOO big, which is something a CP/PP merger could face. If SF only owned their most profitable parks and cut out all of the fat, they'd probably be a big competitor... much bigger than they are now.

Yeah, I agree with you

There was a HEAVY dose of sarcasm in my post

[Captain Picard]

I heard that Busch was not happy with the way things are going at the parks they have so I don't think they will be looking for more parks. The only park they have thats doing good is Seaworld Orlando and I was told it's having all time record high attendance.

[cewldre]

I hope it's not CF, but maybe Universal or Busch... But like all, I'll just have to wait and see. -Hauntguy

PS: I wonder what would happen to seasonal events? I know tickets for "Winterfest" are already for sale... But what about Fearfest or the 4th of July Celebration?

The deal with those events is already done. Whoever takes over the park, CF or otherwise, would probably not make any drastic changes this year. This would mean that Nights of Fire, Fearfest, and Winterfest would most likely go down as planned. Now, next year would be a different story.

[PKIVortex]

For a rumor, this thread is sure getting alot of attention. I also agree that PKI is both a theme park as well as an amusement park.

[The Interpreter]

I heard that Busch was not happy with the way things are going at the parks they have so I don't think they will be looking for more parks. The only park they have thats doing good is Seaworld Orlando and I was told it's having all time record high attendance.

I'd be more than happy to live off the profits from BGE and BGA (formerly known as BGW and BGT).

I am quite sure those parks do very well indeed.

[WooferBearATL]

And contrary to what has been said earlier, I understand that every one of the Busch parks is doing well.

[Captain Picard]

I guess it's where you get your info that makes the difference.

[CoastersRZ]

The Interpreter, what do you mean BGE and BGA (formerly known as BGW and BGT). Last time I checked, the Busch parks were still BGW and BGT.

[WooferBearATL]

The Interpreter, what do you mean BGE and BGA (formerly known as BGW and BGT).  Last time I checked, the Busch parks were still BGW and BGT.

It's now Busch Gardens Europa and Still Busch Gardens Tampa as it used to be Busch Gardens - The Dark Continent .

[TycoonRebel71]

Well according to the new commercial for Busch Gardens, the "New" names of the parks are Busch Gardens Europe and Busch Gardens Africa.

[The Interpreter]

Yep, they are now Busch Gardens Europe and Busch Gardens Africa.

Busch does stuff like this from time to time.

BGW, er BGE has the signs up all over the park, as does BGA in Tampa...

[TopThrill]

True if Cedar Fair or BushGardens would buy the park, it'll be great to see ether ones.

[Reclaimer]

Could it be Universal, by chance? It's too early to say anyone is the new owner for sure, and it could be looking way too far into this, but Universal *did* play Funtastic World and just recently lost it...and suddenly the Paramount Parks get it?

hmmmmm.....

*ducks for cover*

[RingMaster]

Well, remember that Universal just got rid of Nick Studios, so it wouldn't make much sense to buy a chain that's in the process of re-theming their kiddie land to that of Nick-licensed properties (although Funtastic World was replaced by the craptastic Jimmy Neutron Nicktoon Blast).

Basically, I'm rooting for Busch Gardens or a private investor to buy out the parks. It seems as if Cedar Fair puts way too much emphasis on just one park and, to a point, neglecting others (when's the last time Dorney Park or Worlds of Fun got a massive coaster?).

What I'd also like to see is the owners of Dollywood and Silver Dollar City buy PP (or at least Kings Island). They do the same "build-a-ride-or-two-every-year" plan PKI does, except Dollywood's owners do it MUCH better (look at Thunderhead, Powder Keg, and the upcoming Timber Tower to see why).

[MrPKI]

Uhh.......you don't count Hydra and Patriot as massive coasters. I'm definately not rooting for a CF buyout but, it's not like they're that neglecting in the ride department........just theming and atmosphere.

[RollerNut]

Ya'll do know that just because we are for sale as a chain doesn't mean that we will be sold as a chain? Keep in mind that Paramount didn't buy Australia's Wonderland in 1992, and it was sold to australian investors.

[RailRider]

If it were a perfect world, which it isnt. I would love to see PKI/PP get bought by these companies in this order.

1.)Owner of Dollywood and Silver Dollar City

2.)Busch Gardens

3.)Cedar Fair

I would not want to see Universal buy the PP chain because they produce big rides, but dont have the experience running seassonal parks, nor running parks that are more traditional amusement style parks. Also they may get sold off again.

The owner operator of DW and SDC would bring the perfect skills to PKI that is needed to make it even better. Excellent shows, great dining and great ride additions. It is hard to find a better all around park experience than DW or SDC.

[RingMaster]

Uhh.......you don't count Hydra and Patriot as massive coasters. I'm definately not rooting for a CF buyout but, it's not like they're that neglecting in the ride department........just theming and atmosphere.

Dang it, I knew I was forgetting Patriot.

[CoasterXtreme]

GUESS I WAS RIGHT and everyone said I was crazy! I told you I had a good source......