fan of beast Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 i keep hearing that lighter trains are needed for sob. do the trains have to be replaced to lighten them or do they have weights installed that could be removed? my familiarity with building race cars is that you build them as light as possible so that weights can be added and positioned where needed to make the car go around the track as fast and smooth as possible. i've read many posts here at pkic that many seem to have a lot of knowledge about brands and styles of trains. can someone clear this up for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOPGUN1993 Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I think there are steel plates under each Son of Beast car. But I'm not postive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 All i know is that i hope they get new ones that have a lot more room for your knees because those old ones are the most cramped car i have ever been in. That is one reason why SOB is so rough. Hopefully the new ones being so light will speed it up a bit and maybe we can break 80. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 It would be very expensive and would take quite awhile for a manufacturer to fabricate newer, lighter trains for Son of Beast. Also, none of the manufacturer's wanted to make trains when the ride was originally built because they feared an accident, then an accident happens, this wouldn't make any of them feel better about putting their product on the ride. If you remember, over time the SOB trains were modified, more padding was added, and metal blocks placed under your feet to keep your knees up higher and to keep the rider in a more snug position, these could be removed. Most likely the park will just re-modify the current trains in quite a radical way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 It would be very expensive and would take quite awhile for a manufacturer to fabricate newer, lighter trains for Son of Beast. Also, none of the manufacturer's wanted to make trains when the ride was originally built because they feared an accident, then an accident happens, this wouldn't make any of them feel better about putting their product on the ride. If you remember, over time the SOB trains were modified, more padding was added, and metal blocks placed under your feet to keep your knees up higher and to keep the rider in a more snug position, these could be removed. Most likely the park will just re-modify the current trains in quite a radical way. Yeah, cause lord knows the park is not used to throwing money at the SOB Pit. <G> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortex Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Does anyone know if Kings Island will put the same type of lap bars found on The Racer and The Beast? If they do this do you think there will be more leg room? Also would KI use a old buzz bar or are those days gone from Kings Island? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Well, the day for single flip down buzz bars at large parks is long gone. I mean, those restraints are long gone on The Racer and The Beast. They are still there on The Beastie, but those trains are a lot smaller and they do have seatbelts. Most new installs with PTC trains will use the individual lap bars. However, Son of Beast trains, at least the ones from Premier, could not have PTC styled lapbars. Because of the difference in manufacturer. At least not without major modifications to the trains. Which might be happening for this season anyway as they rework the trains to make them lighter and offer a more enjoyable experience for the guests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan of beast Posted January 7, 2007 Author Share Posted January 7, 2007 i have been searching the web for train design info. there is a ton of info on track design and coaster history, but nothing on the trains themselves. does anyone know if there's any info on trains out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delirium13 Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 I can see the trains restrainst being more like Italian Job's. It's the same restraints but far more comfortable and roomier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Maybe the trains will actually look like RCCA said they would: http://www.rcca.com/RCCA/images/beastlarge39.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickwind Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Lighter trains won't necisarily make the ride faster as if it's lighter wind resistance and any other type of resistance will have a great effect on the trains and it will be unable to hold its speed as well (less momentum). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 This is from RCDB... Trains: The Son of Beast originally used trains built by Premier Rides. The trains were made up of 6 cars and sat 6 riders per car. During the 2005/2006 off season one car from each train was removed, thus shortening them from six to five cars per train. During the 2006/2007 off-season, the trains will be changed. The configuration and manufacturer of these trains is not known at this time. Structure: Building Materials: 1.65 million board feet of southern yellow pine. History: The Son of Beast was originally built with a 118 foot tall vertical loop. Problems encountered during the 2006 season closed the ride for the remainder of the 2006 season. During the 2006/2007 off-season many changes are being made to the ride. One of the changes is the removal of the loop. While the loop was not the cause of the problems, removing it would allow the lighter trains to be used. This is expected to improve the ride. Hopefully this will start some new thinking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubaman Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 And in other news today, And in other news today, Sasquatch is seen at the SoB site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstrwomann Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 My opinion is to replace the trains and keep the loop. Are there any pictures of the coaster without the loop on the web for proof? Maybe they are just bluffing about removing the loop to see what everyone's response will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 ^look on the front page! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 My opinion is to replace the trains and keep the loop. Are there any pictures of the coaster without the loop on the web for proof? Maybe they are just bluffing about removing the loop to see what everyone's response will be. I can't stop laughing LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Plus, Cedar Fair itself has said the loop has been carted off to a recycling center. Cstrwomann, one of the first stages of grief is denial (after shock). Will we see bargaining next before you get to acceptance? (Gee, CF, if you will keep the loop, a bunch more people will come, and I will help them---that's an example of bargaining...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Picard Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 What we have here is a failure to communicate. Some you just can’t reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 My opinion is to replace the trains and keep the loop. Are there any pictures of the coaster without the loop on the web for proof? Maybe they are just bluffing about removing the loop to see what everyone's response will be. I can't stop laughing LOL You are laughing at someone else's post? HEY POT, THE KETTLE IS CALLING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRider Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 That is freaking hillarious. Hey its Mr. Obvious laddies and Gentlemen. Smashed any Rumors Lately??? Anyways regarding the trains on SoB. Can anyone else imagine having Millennium Flyer Trains with a cut out SoB logo on the front like the ones on ThunderHead? ThunderHead Front Train That would look amazing. I still find it very hard to believe that the Premier Rolling Stock will just be modified. If this were the case the Premier Rolling Stock will look very different from the 06 configuration. The Restraints will need to be completely done. No need for the complete stapling of guests legs with the restraints because you dont go upside down anymore. More of a single lap bar configuration, with divider, and seatbelt. Similar to what Beast has. I would Imagine The middle row of seats will disappear and you will only have 2 rows instead of 3. More leg room for taller folks. Even short folks like me are cramped in the SoB trains as is. Possibly trying to move all seats off of the wheels, any Jackhammering effect is greatly intensified when sitting directly over a wheel. Possible shortening of the length of the train. Less weight = Less Speed and Less Jackhamering. That is my assesment of what the remod of the trains would involve at the least. If you ask me that many changes wouldnt be cheap and would also be very time consuming. This is why I am sticking to the theory that new trains are on the way. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickwind Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I find it funny that on the SOB fact sheet they say breaks instead of brakes and they still say 6 cars per train, though who knows, maybe it'll be that way again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I find it funny that on the SOB fact sheet they say breaks instead of brakes and they still say 6 cars per train, though who knows, maybe it'll be that way again! Well, I certainly hope this isn't another year where it breaks again. --The Interpreter, who will be here all week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickwind Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 No offense Railrider, but what makes you an expert on trains? I'm not saying that to be mean or anything but I just want to know if you have any additional experiences with working around rolling stock or dealing with the companies that make them. I draw my conclusions from my own experiences of working at the park the past two years and my fathers opinion since he is a former manager at SFAW and then went on to work for Six Flags before moving to Cincy. He's witnessed the construction and decisions made during the building process of many coasters. Just wanting to know a little bit about your background, not being an ass or anything. Honestly, no one wanted their trains on there before it was even built, now its been built and dissapointed people, even hurt them, who wants to be associated with the thing? Certainly not PTC who have a great rep. and charge accordingly, intamin? No, not Intamin, after the movie park germany fiasco I dont think Intamin wants anything to do with RCCA ever again. Millenium Flyer? Millenium Flyers are known to be on coasters that are ranked high and give smooth as glass rides....doesnt sound like SOB to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rollercoasterfreak Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 they will prob. be the same but they will take off some weight on the botem of the train!!!! And I loved that pict. of the Sob in construction And in other news today, And in other news today, Sasquatch is seen at the SoB site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstrwomann Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 I hope they change the restraints on the coaster train they are uncomfortable and to high on the chest area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Somehow, I bet that is a given. If those restraints had not been so high on the chest area on July 9, 2006 . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRider Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 No offense Railrider, but what makes you an expert on trains? I'm not saying that to be mean or anything but I just want to know if you have any additional experiences with working around rolling stock or dealing with the companies that make them. I draw my conclusions from my own experiences of working at the park the past two years and my fathers opinion since he is a former manager at SFAW and then went on to work for Six Flags before moving to Cincy. He's witnessed the construction and decisions made during the building process of many coasters. Just wanting to know a little bit about your background, not being an ass or anything. Honestly, no one wanted their trains on there before it was even built, now its been built and dissapointed people, even hurt them, who wants to be associated with the thing? Certainly not PTC who have a great rep. and charge accordingly, intamin? No, not Intamin, after the movie park germany fiasco I dont think Intamin wants anything to do with RCCA ever again. Millenium Flyer? Millenium Flyers are known to be on coasters that are ranked high and give smooth as glass rides....doesnt sound like SOB to me. I dont take it as you being an ass, so no worries. Understand where you are coming from completely. Lets see my background. Well I am not just a fan boy, yes I have park experience, spent a few years at the Point actually. Also I was lucky enough to intern with Mr. Don Mears, who was the General Manager of Cedar Point for quite some time. I interned with him during the construction of Millenium Force, also at that time CP was installing a new ride control system and refurbishing trains on Cedar Creek Mine Ride. By no means am I an expert but from first hand experience I understand what it takes for a park to build a coaster, to modify trains, etc. I know it can be extremely hard to modify a train to make it loose excess weight or to change the configuration on them, some trains are just engineerd heavier than others and you cant do a whole lot to over come those issues, unless you start removing cars which effects capacity. So yes Im not an expert on SoB or its trains, but I do have my own experiences in the industry to go by. Which leads me to think that modifying the trains does not seem like the best solution. The SoB trains were made to be heavy and durable because of the beating they would take and the fact they needed to go upside down. Some of those intial needs are no longer required. You can either half ass fix the situation with modified trains or you can put new ones on the track that meet the goals of the newly designed ride. Like I have repeatedly said. Nobody wanted anything to do with SoB when it still went upside down. Why else was Premier the maker of the trains? Nobody else wanted it. But saying that nobody wants to build trains for it now without the loop is like saying nobody wants to be the construction company that builds the Freedom Tower in New York on the site of The World Trade Towers. Things have changed, requirements have been met, improvements have been made; a coaster company would make trains for SoB if approached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flightoffear1996 Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 This may just be me but does any think that Millenium Flyer trains would looke funny on Son of Beast. Just the style of the trains makes me thing that they were designed to be on a smaller type more of a twisted track coaster than Son of Beast. Me personally I think they would look silly on Son of Beast. PTC trains would even look funny on the track. I don't know why but I just think that they wouldn't look right on the track. I am throwing this out there cause I have no clue on what is going to open but what if Kings Island approached PTC or GCI asking them to take the keep the fiber glass of the old Son of Beast trains and just redesging(spelling?) the underneath and mechanical aspects of the train? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Picard Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 I am no expert but if you put less people on it will weigh less. Adding a short seat belt will cut some weight too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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