Rivertown Rider

I was surprised last year when I was at Canada's Wonderland in September, they had a limited time Oktoberfest food and drink event. They set up some food and drink vendors and had periodic German music and dancing. Some of the food was even on the dining plan. It is something I could easily see us doing as well.

Here are some things to check out that talk about the current state of the company. The first is their most recent investment presentation from this month: https://s2.q4cdn.com/170666959/files/doc_presentations/2020/08/FUN-Investor-Presentation_2020-08_FINAL_pdf.pdf The second is https://www.cleveland.com/business/2020/08/cedar-fair-acknowledges-park-attendance-hasnt-met-expectations-reports-second-quarter-operating-loss.html Interesting in the second one, the CFO mentions that Knott's, Wonderland, CP, and KI make up 80% of annual revenue. Also KI and CP are only reaching 15% of capacity but are still profitable. I would encourage everyone to read both of these documents. There are a couple key takeaways: Cedar Fair has to maintain at least $125 million minimum liquidity level (slide 12 of the presentation). They are expecting cash burn rate to be $30-40 million per month thru the rest of the year. Liquidity position as of June 28, 2020, was $661 million which reflects $360 million in available revolver capacity (net of approximately $15 million letters of credit) and $301 million in cash on hand (slide 14 of the presentation). Long-term they are still looking at something new in every park, every year. They are expanding "cadence of and reduce reliance on large-scale investments to drive growth" (slide 17 of the presentation). "Something for everyone - consumers are seeking entertainment options that can accommodate all types of people, ages and interests" and "Consumers see “local” as more authentic" (slide 18 of the presentation). "Top Reasons to Visit Parks: • Family Rides • Thrill Coasters • Water Rides • Seasonal Events • Anniversary Celebrations" (slide 19 of the presentation).

^ If they add a new path to The Bat, they will probably demolish the current path including the ramp going to the SOB station.

As much as I think nothing major is happening I have been thinking about some possibilities for this area. First the reasons against anything major happening: COVID-19, we just got a brand new coaster, the chain is trying to preserve cash as much as possible. The reasons for something happening: 1. Most of the other parks park in the chain are holding over their 2020 additions into 2021. CGA, Carowinds, Dorney, Worlds of Fun all are holding over their 2020 additions until next year. A lot of this money has already been spent. Wonderland at a minimum probably won't get to open their water park this year with their new addition. The only chain in the park that has seen something show up (not publicly announced but spotted is KD with their rumored Free Fly. It is unknown whether Dorney will get their rumored Wooden Shuttle coaster. Prior to the pandemic Cedar Fair had mentioned that each park in the chain would get something new every year. That has probably gone out the window for now but it is something to think about. There have been markers spotted at CP and KI. With the importance of the two Ohio parks to the chain it is quite possible we get something even if it is not going to break the bank. 2. First of all, I don't think we are getting a coaster. I think most of us would agree that when we get a coaster 3-5 years from now that it will be at least in part of the old Vortex plot. So if we think about a 5 year plan for the park, probably at least one of those years will be a new coaster in The Vortex plot, one of those years will probably be something new in the water park, one of those years I could see a Planet Snoopy revamp to Camp Snoopy. With three out of five years spoken for, I think Action Zone could easily get something. When we look back since Banshee was installed here have been the additions/improvements: 2015: Two new Planet Snoopy attractions 2016: Tropical Plunge and new funnel cake stand in Rivertown along with the new entrance to White Water Canyon 2017: Mystic Timbers and Island Smokehouse 2018: Coney BBQ 2019: Antique Autos, International Street refresh, and the return of the Glockenspiel, and Miami River Brewhouse 2020: Orion, various Area 72 improvements, Scrambler refreshed, Dodgem sign updated, and Viking Fury painted 3. The closest park to us (Kentucky Kingdom) is highly rumored to get their biggest addition to the park since they re-opened (RMC Raptor). 3. Action Zone needs a refresh. Since 2014, Action Zone hasn't really had any noticeable improvements. It is an area of the park that in some respects feels dated. In my opinion Action Zone has always been the area of the park that didn't really feel like it flowed well. Of the dry side areas, all of the other areas for the most part flow well together. Yes there are opportunities some places (as much I love you, looking at you BLSC) but in recent times the park has done a good job adding character when they have made improvements. Action Zone still has the weird Frankenstein feel to it. Originally it was a small Jungle themed area (the Taft/KECO/Linder years) that was a gateway to a Safari ride (Amazon/Congo Falls), a once promising Amphitheater that gets used a handful a times a year (Timberwolf), and the world's first stand up (RIP KC) among other things. Then we go into the early Paramount years with Top Gun (yes I know it was planned before they bought the park), Skyflyer, and the old go-karts. As some point Paramount decided to adopt the old 90's Studios (see at that time Disney/MGM and Universal Studios) theme where anything fits in an area of the park and it doesn't have to have a theme. Action Zone got so many additions during that time: Skyflyer (1995), XS Raceway/Days of Thunder/Thunder Alley (1996), Drop Zone/Drop Tower and Face-Off/Invertigo (1999) and of course Son of Beast in 2000. Delirium was added in 2003 (replacing KC) but other than Banshee replacing SOB and the Raceway in 2014, the area has really only had one year of major additions other than paint jobs since 2003. This Google Earth image is from April 2017 but I think it is easier to see the road than some of the other images I have seen. So what I think might be happening is a couple things: 1. I wouldn't be surprised to be Timberwolf getting torn down. It is only used primarily for SpiritSong and they could easily go the Cedar Point route and put up a temporary stage/seating elsewhere. As massive as KI's parking lot is they have plenty of options for that. I could easily see them doing it down towards the Soak City entrance. 2. With that being said, the portion of Columbia Road that dead ends close to the park entrance along with the road that goes up to Timberwolf would be torn up. This allows them to add additional concrete pathways that go up toward the park entrance. 3. With removing Timberwolf it allows the park to add some additional flats (I could see a family flat along with a thrilling flat being added there). Other than Congo Falls and The Bat there are no truly family rides in that area of the park. 4. If they are really removing the Son of Beast building, I could see them putting more of a straight pathway from the bulldozed Timberwolf/new flats area to The Bat. This would significantly shorten the walk to/from that area and would probably increase its popularity. With that they would close off the old The Bat pathway at the bathrooms/Blackout building. Again this could all be nothing, but speculation is always fun. In the below, the gray would be the new pathways to the entrance, the black would be excavated road, and the orange would be the new pathway to The Bat.

Burying the power lines makes a ton of sense. They had buried the ones back by Orion last year I believe.

The more I look at it, I think at least part of this is a new entry plaza similar to Carowinds and Cedar Point. It makes sense for them to widen that space as on busy days it really backs up.

With Dorney rumored to be removing Possessed, that would certainly fit in that area. I doubt they would move a 20 year old Intamin to KI but it does make you wonder. Personally I'm hoping for some flats in that area.

The interesting part is taking out Timberwolf would actually solve a lot of issues. They could add a few flats and they could also reroute the entrance and exit to The Bat to that area which would probably increase its ridership. Mike Koontz has talked many times about refreshing areas of the park since he became GM. Action Zone and Planet Snoopy are really the only two areas on the dry side of the park that haven't been enhanced in some way during that time.

I agree with what others have said. I think it is more of a case of a few bad apples on both ends of the spectrum that cause the issues. One thing that I think is somewhat interesting with KI is the mass abundance of sites, Facebook groups, YouTube channels, Twitter, etc. that the users have KI as their home park. It is a large amount compared to many of the other regional parks. There is also the rivalries between other parks' fans who think theirs is the best (CP vs. KI, Carowinds vs. KI, etc.). Part of the abundance of enthusiasts I think is because a larger part of our attendance is locals/passholders where some of the other regionals either pull from a larger population base (Wonderland definitely would fit that mold) or are destination parks (CP and BGW, etc.). When people are constantly going to a park they are going to notice more things right and wrong than people who are only there once or twice a year. I don't think constructive criticism is bad and I think the park overall does a great job. Are there things that could be better (more merchandise options like CP has, better food ops in some locations, etc.)? Sure. But the park has made great strides under CF. They have added four great brand new coasters, the theming has gotten better around the park, and the overall food quality has gotten much better. I look forward to seeing what the park does in the future.

I think that was probably always the plan to sell it. The problem is if they become part of a chain it is probably going to be the same result as what happened the last time. Six Flags would do the same thing they did the last time. Cedar Fair wouldn't invest in it enough because of the proximity to KI. Best case would be similar to Dorney, worst case would be Geauga Lake. An interesting chain to buy it that would be Herschend. If they could turn it into a mini SDC/mini Dollywood it would be a great scenario. It would take a lot of work but doing a Kentucky version of that type of park would be great. Herschend owns Newport Aquarium so they could work on combo tickets/ passes between the two if they wanted.

^ That's kind of my thoughts. Tempesto (SkyRocket II) is a fun coaster but I would think if a park is adding one they are probably still going to go with Premier unless they have severe footprint problems at their park.

I would really like to see the park focus on their flats collection. I think looking to what Canada's Wonderland (IMO the best flats collection in the chain) does where they mix thrilling and family flats throughout the park. Some of my ideas: Rivertown: A Screamin Swing would fit great in that area of the park. There are no big thrilling flats on that half of the park. Coney: Add a Tilt a Whirl and a Top Scan. Oktoberfest: Bring back the Keggers. Also put a Musik Express where the ladder game is. Action Zone: This is an area that could use some family flats. Maybe move the Flying Eagles over there with a Camp Snoopy revamp. Putting a revamped Phantom Theater would also get people out of the concrete jungle that is Action Zone.

Of all ride types to rip off why in the world would they choose the Sky Rocket II?

While the Chaos building is small, turning it into a year round funhouse would be something else for people to do in Area 72. Grandfather's Mansion at Silver Dollar City is another great funhouse.

I've thought for several years that Kennywood would be a good park for the chain. With its relative proximity to KI, CP, and DP it could be a way for the chain to sell more platinum passes. CF would also do a much better job with operations than Kennywood does.

I would say Carowinds had the best decade overall. Adding Intimidator, Fury, and Copperhead Strike were all great additions that elevated the park's standing. While Intimidator is probably one of the lesser hypers, Fury is my #1 steel, and Copperhead Strike is a great addition. What they have also done with even their smaller additions (i.e. Camp Snoopy and Harmony Hall) and themeing has elevated the park. I don't think Carowinds is as good as either CP or KI overall but it is certainly a park that CF was smart to invest in. It will be interesting to see what they do in the decade ahead.

Yeah we definitely don't need any conversions at KI. My thoughts are more I'm curious if they will ever do a ground up RMC woodie at KI or if CF looks at RMC and sees more headaches than they are worth.

Like others have said, I doubt we will see Intamin come to a CF park anytime soon. I'm more curious if we will see another RMC installation after the headaches they have had with SV and to a lesser extent TT.

I agree with you. I got a front row zen ride on El Toro last summer and it was painful.

Thanks for posting these pictures. It was great to see some of the aerial and ride pictures of very rare-to-find attractions of the past. It always amazes me how much the park has changed over the years.

I think dark rides can be worth the investment if they are well done and use the appropriate ride system. I think one of the biggest problems with Wonder Mountain's Guardian is that the ride system has such a low throughput that it doesn't make a lot of sense. They have also had problems with the 3D animation screens which were supposed to switch to 2D animation this year to help with the graininess of the video quality (per the ACE event I attended last September). The other problem is that dark rides in a regional park atmosphere either need to use an Omnimover system or the boat-type system that Enchanted Voyage used to be really effective. Monster Mansion (as mentioned earlier in the thread) at SFOG is a great example of what can be done when the system is at its best. Original IP and a great way to get out of the sun for a few minutes. The problem with the shoot-em-up type rides are that the blasters are so finicky. That is not just a KI problem, it happens everywhere. I do think CF should go to a company like Sally and have them work up some Peanuts-themed dark ride ideas and then update all of the various Boo Blasters rides with the same overlay. The other major benefit with dark rides are they give another ride that can be open year-round which gives another ride that can be opened during Winterfest. Dark rides are probably never going to be headliners in a regional park atmosphere but they do a good job of filling out the overall line-up.

While at this point IMO KK is a half day park, them growing can only be a good thing for us as KI fans. More competition is going to make KI invest more to keep people coming to KI. If the addition is a Raptor that is the perfect type of addition for KK.

If Vortex was built in the days of social media, it would probably be, "I can't believe Kings Island is building another Arrow, they expect this to be something that lasts a long time? They should've went with Togo."

One interesting option would be if they did something like the Gravity Group coaster that Dorney is getting. It would seem to check a lot of boxes (small footprint, likely low cost).

When I saw @King Ding Dong had posted in this thread, I was hoping we could color our own Rivertown Freestyle location.