SonofBaconator

*Cough*

@Dj325 is this for a project?

Not trying to exclude any possibilities, but weren't there a ton of construction vehicles in that area when Orion was being built?

Because it makes perfect sense to start building a brand new coaster right next to our new giga, especially when it disregards the empty hole where Vortex used to be.

@BeastForever anything comes with a risk. I'm arguing intensity warrants greater risk and therefore warrants greater caution. I'm not suggesting we build a 170mph Intamin or a spinning B&M, but with intensity comes risk. B&Ms are crowd pleasers because they do just that- appeal to crowds. I'm seen older folks who ride B&Ms like Diamondback, Orion, GateKeeper, Valravn, etc. These rides feature height, speed, and the ladder two have inversions, but all lack intensity. Now some of your old school B&Ms are more intense because you have tighter elements, OTSRs and older designs but those are older. Intensity doesn't age well. I found myself more willing to reride GateKeeper and Valravn over Raptor and Rougarou because they were too intense for my liking. If you design an intense ride that people in the child-40s demographic, you're limiting your ROI. Intensity might appeal to the enthusiasts and the high thrill seekers but are you going to get that ROI that you would with a tamer ride? Look at Copperhead Strike, a multi launch built by a company known for having underwhelming launches. Low acceleration and hangtime are not intense when you compare it to something like Maverick or Storm Runner. The difference is the lack of intensity allows a wider range of people to ride it thus creating a greater ROI. I argue parks would be better off having something less intense if more people of multiple ages could ride it vs something more intense that a certain age group could enjoy. KI isn't in a competitive market like some parks are. Intensity is just not a risk a park like ours should take.

Also, we have to acknowledge the giant space behind BLSC

I doubt a new coaster would be built literally right next to our brand new giga within a short amount of time; perhaps a decade or so down the road but not anytime soon. In regards to expansion I think it would be a great spot. You certanly have room under the giant break run for foot traffic underneath and the area to the left of Orion's entrance would make a great pathway. It would give KI the opportunity to truly expand outwards beyond current park limits and push into old LCS land. My question would be, would you let it dead end behind Orion's break run or would you have a path wrap around FoF?

I feel like Orion has made Diamondback a stepping stone coaster. Diamondback isn't as tall as Orion and has a ton of calm floater airtime. Personally I'll still ride both if I can. It would be awesome to have a coaster with the intensity of Maverick, I just don't know if Cedar Fair is willing to give us that. After the chain bought us in 2006, they were pretty conservative with the additions they gave us- 3 B&Ms and a GCI is as safe as you can get. Intensity can be risky so I suppose the question is, is Cedar Fair willing to take risks on our park? I argue not but other people's opinions might differ. I believe Cedar Fair is more willing to take risks with parks like Cedar Point, Canada's Wonderland, Carowinds, CGA, and even KD; heck even Dorney is rumored to get that wooden shuttle.

I understand your logic, I'm arguing that when you get an intense ride you limit your ROI if you're trying to appeal to a certain demographic. Intensity can be fun, but just how intense is something to consider.

@BoddaH1994 I feel like it could have been worded better.

How profitable is SFA to the chain as a whole?

I feel like Sky Rocket IIs would be great at low investment parks like Worlds of Fun or Valleyfair that only see new coasters about once every decade. Heck Valleyfair added a Larson loop a few years back even though that's not a coaster

Back in 1996 Kings Island and Kings Dominion opened the world's 1st LIM coasters with Flight of Fear. 9 years later, (10 for Kings Dominion), Premier Rides gave both parks two more respective LIM coasters with the Italian Job Stunt Tracks. Once Cedar Fair bought the Paramount parks, Premier was never called back to do another ride. To this day Kings Dominion's Backlot Stunt Coaster was the last Premier Rides coaster ever to be built for a park that is owned by the Cedar Fair chain; none of Cedar Fair's legacy parks (CP, VF, KBF, DP, & MI) have ever even had one. I'm just curious as to why? Is there an exclusivity clause? Does Cedar Fair not like their practices? Do they not like their maintenance? It just intrigues me. Six Flags and Sea World entertainment have installed a combined total of 7 coasters from Premier rides with 4 of them being clones and 3 of them being custom launched layouts. Would working with Premier help or hurt Cedar Fair?

Please don't tear out any more trees. In all honesty we don't need intensity. Only a certain age range can deal with intense rides. Look at I-305

@BeastForever I remember that as well. Much like how many people want Timberwolf demolished, tearing out existing infrastructure is always a bad idea when you have the ability to fix it up. Once infrastructure is gone, its hard to bring it back.

Arguably the most Paramount ride to still remain at the park, BLSC sits on prime real-estate. Will KI ever remove this ride or is it too popular with the families?

^^ We used to have 4 enclosed rides that were open at one point: Flight of Fear, TRTR/Crypt, the Scooby Doo/Boo Blasters, and the Action Theater. Now we're down to just Flight of Fear and Boo Blasters. The Crypt building really has potential to be something more than a haunted house in the same can be said for Action Theater. Weather management wants to invest in them as full-time ride buildings versus convenient haunted houses has been evident for a while. Unfortunately for the Crypt building it was custom built for a ride that no longer exists at the park so it's hard to put something in it that isn't a haunted house. If you want something new that's custom built you have to account for capacity and that would mean making the building pretty big. Parks like Universal and Disney have dozens upon dozens of buildings that hold multiple dark rides- our park is flooded with coasters. The only way to truly have more dark rides at Kings Island would be to look into the existing infrastructure we have which is the action theater and the Crypt building. You can put something like a wild mouse in the Crypt building and have it go in and out of the building like mystery mine but they don't have great capacity...not at least for what you're trying to pull off in terms of having disney-esque inside rides

I wonder if they could do a haunt with no actors, just times sound effects, unless actors are necessary to keep people moving. I think it would still be cool to add props to rides that have tunnels and enclosed areas like Mystic Timbers, BLSC, and Adventure Express

They should start selling marker flags in their gift shops

I'm not a psychologist, nor do have any credentials to back this up but I don't see any of this as a coincidence- I honestly think this is an after affect of the shutdown of 2020. You have a bunch of kids who have been stuck doing online schooling or have to attend socially distant, in-person classes for the past year. After being in a pandemic America since March of 2020, these kids get out of the house and reenter the world that's trying to get back to normalcy. Whether they went on their own or were dropped off by their parents (who might feel like they themselves needed a break from their own kids), not being able to go out and do things and be normal has taken its tole on everyone. I'm not excusing this behavior but I don't think this will be the last time we hear of this type of behavior this year.

Just out of curiosity do they have a set competitor? I'm just asking this because half a BILLION over the next decade is no small feat, especially with the investments they got during the 2010s.

How much of a competitor is Dollywood to us?

Or just leave it alone for now. Like the various haunt buildings scattered across the park, Timberwolf isn't losing the park any money by existing. I honestly don't understand people's constant desire to want to develop every square inch of the park. We're not Cedar Point- we have the space. As I recall there's a giant vacant plot of land behind Backlot Stunt Coaster. Furthermore, I also recall from a certain book I read that management is wanting to focus on Planet Snoopy and Soak City in the coming years.

Unfortunately the demographic for forceful rides is more narrow than that for forceless ones.

Honestly something like this would be perfect since its inversion focused, has good hang time, the gimmicky hold over the 90° drop, and so on. This model isn't even 200ft.