disco2000

Actually I love amusement parks and had over 80 visits to parks last year and attend enthusiast events...Passes are one of the best values around...I would love to get two years out of my pass and meal plans, but that isn't likely... However, I also understand the dynamics of a business and how a business makes money... I am simply trying to manage expectations of people that think the parks will open simply because "they can make money selling merch"...enough merch cannot be bought to pay for operating an entire park...it can cover the costs of the shops selling it, but not an entire park... KI has fixed costs that basically cannot change. Their operating costs are how much it costs to open and run the park. Your statement money coming in is better than nothing isn't totally accurate for a business model reliant on season passes as it relates to this current situation. It costs way more to operate KI on a per employee basis than say a local lazer tag. Let's assume that the utilities and rent are the fixed costs for the lazer tag. They have 4 employees each making $10/hour, so their labor costs are $40/hour total. They charge $10/hour for guests to play. As long as they have more than 4 people per hour in their establishment, then yes money coming in is better than nothing because they are making money on every guest after number 4. To the consumer, the cost/hour for entertainment value is $10/hour for lazer tag. For KI the cost/hour for entertainment is $3.5/hour, based on a daily admission that is $42 dollars for 12 hours of entertainment (say a 10am to 10pm open to close), and the cost/hour of entertainment value is even less for a passholder. What does this mean, an amusement park needs to make it up on volume of the number of guests in the park, much more so than a lot of other businesses... What number of guests does KI need to have in the park to be making money? If the number they are going to be capped at plus the costs to ensure compliance to comply with social distancing requirements is less than the number of guests they need to make money, why would they open? If the only people coming in are season pass holders with meal and drink plans, KI is then spending money of ours they already have and no new revenue is coming in. They have to take the money they already have from us and instead of paying for 2020, they also have to pay for 2021 from it based on their recent announcement....two years for the price of one is good for the consumer, bad for the company... If the income from opening the park is less than what it costs to open the park, then they are spending money to lose even more money. If for every 10 dollars it costs to operate the park, they only bring in $1 in new revenue, then it costs them more to open than the new revenue brought in. It would be like walking into KI and passing over a dollar to pick up a dime... Money IN has to be greater than Money OUT... When they don't open this year, there will be a lot of disappointed people on this forum. It all comes down to managing expectations... Personally I am assuming they will not be opening based on everything people, including me LOL, have posted why they won't be (look at that other thread for a lot more detail), and then if they do, I can be pleasantly surprised... It's all about perspective...believe they will open and when they don't be disappointed, or believe they won't be open and be excited if they do... Personally I think the parks opening this year is a super ideal in a perfect world scenario and not reality; whereas you think not opening is the super ideal in a perfect world scenario and think reality is they will open... One of the things that makes our country great is that we are each entitled to our own opinion. Some opinions are based on information and indicators and the direction things are going, and others are opinions simply based on hope and gut feels...to each their own...

Yes, you probably can social distance at an amusement park easier than a crowded stadium by creating virtual queues and strict enforcement of the social distancing requirements. However, sporting events have TV rights/revenues that the teams will make money from so they can afford to play a sport to an empty stadium; whereas, an amusement park cannot open up to no guests, or limiting the number of guests so dramatically that they cannot make money. Bengals have proven for years they can make money with an empty stadium..an amusement park not so much... A concert or sporting event could also be pay per view (PPV).... I guess a park could try to sell the rights to their POV's, but I doubt a TV station would feel that would be a money maker for them... There is a cost associated to a park to comply with these efforts - limiting the number of guests allowed into the park, PPE for employees, more security to enforce social distancing, probably longer dispatch times and trains with every other seat and row empty, probably not every ride open, no shows inside, list goes on and on. Do they charge a daily surcharge fee to address these additional costs not anticipated? Rumpke added a fuel surcharge several years ago when gas prices were approaching $5/gallon.... How does the park determine who gets in operating at a reduced capacity - pass holders first, daily admission, or private events? They couldn't do it first come, first serve as no way social distancing would be followed. Think line jumping is an issue now, wait until there is six feet between people...Do they kick people out and revoke their pass for violating social distancing? Do they divide the alphabet into the days and those with a last name A through C are allowed on Mondays, D through F on Tuesday, etc.? What about based on number of miles away from the park - anyone greater than 35 miles will not be admitted? Or only those living in Ohio? However they decide to cap the capacity people will be ticked... Do they make money if all they let in are pass holders with meal and drink plans and no daily admissions? The product provided will be a different experience. They will have to monitor and enforce this much greater than any smoking policy they have...Nosy Nancy will certainly be looking for violations to report and shut the place down... A lot of questions Kings Island needs to answer... In addition to those answers, the park needs to be able to assure that they keep their employees and guests safe and make money operating at a reduced capacity. If they feel they cannot address both, they don't open...they do not have TV rights to fall back on for revenue like a sports league does... (PS...a lot of what is being posted here has already been discussed in the thread about Coronavirus impacting amusement parks...)

And these same Nosy Nancy's would be the ones reporting to the authorities the social distancing violations at an amusement park, shutting the whole place down.... They did that at the tennis court at the park. Walking trail slammed with people but that is no problem, but two people playing tennis well beyond 6 feet apart got in trouble...I can think of a few people that would be watching KI very carefully...

You can social distance at an amusement park. There is a cost associated with that effort - limiting the number of guests allowed into the park, PPE for employees, more security to enforce social distancing, probably longer dispatch times and trains with every other seat and row empty, probably not every ride open, no shows inside, list goes on and on. Do they charge a daily surcharge fee to address these additional costs not anticipated? Rumpke added a fuel surcharge several years ago when gas prices were approaching $5/gallon... How does the park determine who gets in operating at a reduced capacity - pass holders first, daily admission, or closed events? They couldn't do it first come, first serve as no way social distancing would be followed. Think line jumping is an issue now, wait until there is six feet between people...Do they kick people out and revoke their pass for violating social distancing? Do they make money if all they let in are pass holders with meal and drink plans? Do they divide the alphabet into the days and those with a last name A through C are allowed on Mondays, D through F on Tuesday, etc.? The product provided will be a different experience. A lot of questions CF needs to answer... In addition to those answers, the park needs to be able to assure that they keep their employees and guests safe and make money operating at a reduced capacity. If they feel they cannot address both, they don't open...

Sure, we all are entitled to our opinion...what makes you feel like they will open....what indicators are you seeing? Can you substantiate your opinion, unlike many of the one line posts that is more gut feel with nothing to validate their opinion...now whether someone agrees or disagrees is an individual choice, but at least one can understand how you formulated your opinion... True...but there are lots of indicators pointing towards not opening (see the other thread for posts with reasons on why they may not open (science, other business sectors, their competition, financials) and documentaries someone wrote pointing out the these indicators and analysis of CF Financials and interpretation of the SIX Q1 statement LOL)...in the opening argument the best we have seen is "they can sell merch"...

The Schlitterbahn Waterparks are still the old message of mid-May....

And Cedar Fair just finally made all platinum passes equal...

Or open in 2021 either....Orion all new for 2022.. Cedar Fair finally made all passes equal and made Wonderland passes valid through 2021...

Let's hope countries learn from what is now happening where this outbreak originated - places that had some of the most restrictive measures in place to try to contain it and flatten their curve are seeing the surge and locking down again or will be soon in all likelihood.... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/coronavirus-china-asia-countries-resurgence/

Hopefully one of these days Cedar Fair makes all platinum passes created equal...

Let's hope we don't get a measles outbreak once covid is controlled.... https://www.businessinsider.com/100-million-children-miss-measles-vaccines-coronavirus-pandemic-covid-2020-4

Looks like KI staff was trying out the rides with PPE measures to test them before they open mid-May

technically it is e. coli that is killed by UV, but fecal matter was the closest non-cuss word, non playground term I could think of that people may know what it is But yeah, some wastewater plants incinerate fecal matter all the time...lots of flame...

Well, some people are soundbite, click-bait educated and formed their opinion back in February based on what "someone" said...even if "someone" has since changed their opinion, some people are hard-headed and refuse to change their opinion based on new information...

Or the dude brushing his teeth...

Or intentional or unintentional saliva expelled from the row in front of you on a fast roller coaster...I have been the victim of that and it is nasty...and now said person could be brought up on attempted murder charges

UV will kill it, but one does not get enough from sunlight to be effective to kill it. Water treatment plants use UV to disinfect. If it is a water plant, then chlorine will be added as well before it is sent out into your home. If it is wastewater, then it will be discharged to a water body. UV radiation affects microorganisms by altering the DNA in the cells and impeding reproduction. UV treatment does not remove organisms it merely inactivates them. The effectiveness of this process is related to exposure time and lamp intensity as well as general water quality parameters. The exposure time is reported as "microwatt-seconds per square centimeter" (uwatt-sec/cm^2). Most treatment plants have a lamp intensity of 30,000-50,000µwatt-sec/cm^2. It takes 16,000µwatt-sec/cm^2 to kill all known viruses and bacteria in water... It takes about 6,000µwatt-sec/cm^2 to kill the flu and 8,000µwatt-sec/cm^2 to kill hepatitis. It is believed covid-19 will be comparable, but tests are still being done... How much UV does the sun provide - equivalent to 8.5µwatt-sec/cm^2...enough to get a nasty burn, but not enough to kill a virus, or even fecal matter (well actually e. coli). Wash your hands...

If you buy a pass now you still get the benefits through 2021

At this rate KI probably hopes nothing entertainment-wise opens this year as they will be the only place left locally in 2021 to take our entertainment dollars

That is a possibility for many of the rides. The reality is because of the lawsuit crazy society we live in is part of the reasons for these restraint checks. It is posted and should be the rider's responsibility to know the rules and guidelines of the ride and obey them. I know the lapbar came down the required amount and that my seatbelt is secure and having a speed check by an employee doesn't make me feel any safer. Yet I witness on almost every trip a rider that thought the seatbelt was optional on one of the rides I am in line with. I don't know this for a fact for every ride and I am sure there are exceptions, but I know most of the newer roller coasters cannot dispatch if the lap bar/restraint is not secured, so the employee speed check is more for checklist and liability reasons and redundancy than anything else. Now I do realize that none of the seatbelts have this feature, so they are checking that. I get into my vehicle and strap my seatbelt on and never has anyone done a pull on it to insure that I secured it properly, yet statistically, one is more likely to be injured or die in an automobile accident than an amusement park ride accident...

It is one thing in a work environment with gloves on because you are now consciously aware and have probably been trained as part of your job, but people will touch their hair, adjust their sun glasses or regular glasses, wipe their watery eyes, remove bugs off their face (looking at you TTD at CP) all before getting off the ride... What about over the shoulder restraint rides that touch your face as you pull them down like Banshee can or I-305...I have had my sunglasses ripped off moving those restraints over my head… Plus most touch their face without even realizing it....turn your webcam on while you sit at your computer reading and typing here and then play it back and see how many times you touch your face… Oh it can through some of those... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41575-020-0295-7 https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/85315 https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=229095

A declining business sector anyway, but one that will not re-open now because of the virus...https://www.wlwt.com/article/west-chesters-skatetown-usa-to-close-after-17-years-in-business/32146599

Read the FAQ....yes...

Exactly....so does a passholder feel so entitled they would rather have an experience that they "didn't agree to when they purchased a pass" just to get into KI this season, all at the expense of a greatly devalued experience in the upcoming years? I would rather they skip a year, minimize their losses, and provide us with the experience we expect next year and the following years. If they open this year, with no new passes or renewal sales taking place come August, the experience will be degraded in the following seasons. What do they cut - shows, Grand Carnivale, WF, Haunt, alternate rides that are opened, toilet paper rationing, cut the meal plan to one meal per visit? We really don't know what they will have to cut in order to make that happen. Six Flags has already announced that they would be eliminating $40million of non-labor costs and investments announced during Q4 of 2019...what does that mean....sounds like all new for 2020 will now become all new for 2021...or an awful lot of toilet paper and light bulbs aren't being purchased As a result of making passes valid through 2021, there will be a real cost associated with them opening this year...and the impacts will certainly be seen or felt by everyone going to the park in 2021 as a result.

And the ability to travel has increased substantially too, so it is quicker and easier to spread. We didn't have Delta, Southwest, Singapore Airlines, etc. in 1918...For every advancement on one side, could be an advancement on another side that impacts the other side, positively or negatively... You missed the point of my post - there are lot more priorities out there before KI opens and that was why I was saying don't anticipate them opening...