Season Pass Complexity and Unfairness

[The Interpreter]

I hope they fix the Cedar Fair season pass program for this coming season.

Let's review a FEW of the problems, from the customer's point of view:

Last year, when you had a 2006 season pass from any Paramount Park, it got you into all the Paramount Parks and it was supposed to do that for the ENTIRE 2006 season (a privilege you had PAID for). (And a 2006 Cedar Fair season pass from any parks BUT Cedar Point or Geauga Lake got you into all legacy Cedar Fair parks...at CP or GLP, you had to buy a combo pass to get the other park, but all the other Cedar Fair dryparks were included).

Yet, the moment you bought a 2007 Cedar Fair pass, either for the park where bought OR a Maxx pass, they took your old pass (at some parks, but not others) and your new 2007 pass (which was a temporary card that had to be exchanged later) got you into ONLY the park where purchased. Meanwhile, holders of legacy Cedar Fair park passes who renewed got into all the legacy Cedar Fair parks the rest of the season, and by many reports were allowed courtesy entry into the legacy Paramount Parks as well. I know many Dorney passholders who got in free last year at Kings Island and at Carowinds.

Meanwhile, your new 2007 Cedar Fair pass, regular or Maxx would NOT get you into the other Paramount Parks the remainder of 2006. Never mind that you had already PAID to get into them for the entire 2006 season. Never mind that people who NEVER paid for the privilege were getting into Kings Island and other Paramount Parks with 2006 Cedar Fair passes that never included that privilege. And never mind that no one told you that buying a 2007 Cedar Fair pass, you were forfeiting your right to go to the other Paramount Parks for the rest of 2006. And never mind you had already paid for that privilege (and may have even planned your family vacation around it).

Meanwhile, at Carowinds, users were allowed to keep their 2006 pass, but a hole was punched in it. IT still worked at other Paramount Parks. At Kings Island, some users had to surrender their 2006 pass to get a 2007, others did not...kind of like parking at another Cedar Fair park...sometimes you get charged when you have a Maxx pass from elsewhere...sometimes you don't...or Joe Cool...a privilege Cedar Point passholders must PAY for, yet Maxx passholders from other parks have reportedly gotten the same privilege at Cedar Point without paying extra...and others...have not). Worse, sometimes you COULD get into other Paramount Parks with that next year's Maxx pass (I know several people who did this at Kings Dominion), while sometimes you COULD not (I know others who were told at Kings Dominion's gate they would be CHARGED to go to Kings Dominion when they tried to use a 2007 Maxx pass...even though they had paid CBS for a pass for 2006 to get in ALL the Paramount Parks...you see they were so silly as to renew, and somehow LOST that paid-for privilege? By the way, my firends who were told they would be charged had already paid the parking fee...it took over an hour to get it back, after which they disgustedly left and enjoyed their day at Busch Gardens Europe...and they have not been to KD again since. Last I heard, they are NOT buying a Cedar Fair pass for 2008. Surprise, surprise.)

And if you complained to Guest Relations, as I did, you were told, so very sorry. How nice. CBS took your money in 2005 (for 2006), promised you could get into all the Paramount Parks for the 2006 season, but when Cedar Fair sold you a Maxx pass for 2007, you couldn't get in the other Paramount Parks for the rest of 2006, just the park where you bought your Maxx pass. And the more people I explained this to (after it HAD happened to me), the more blank looks and "I'm sorrys" I got. Did they tell you when you bought a Maxx pass for 2007, you could no longer get in the other Paramount Parks in 2006, even though you had already PAID to do so? Of course not.

Just like their websites, TO THIS DAY, do NOT explain you cannot buy a parking pass to a legacy Paramount Park unless you have a pass from THAT park; nor an Ohio parking pass unless you have an Ohio Cedar Fair park based park or Maxx pass. And when you DID buy a voucher for a parking pass (but your pass was from a non-Ohio park), they at first were not even going to issue a refund, much less honor the voucher they SOLD without revealing all their limitations and terms (such as, you can't have this because you didn't also buy a pass from OUR park in addition to a Maxx pass...which I was blatantly and angrily told the first day of the season at Kings Island, by someone who should have known better how to handle the public). I eventually got my money back, but only by going up three more levels on the management chain. Sigh.

And they wonder why people think it is too complicated? And not just overly complicated but unfair? Customer satisfaction down this road does not lie. (even though THEY may as well have lied and some would contend they did when they took away Paramount Park exchange rights on season passes for the rest of 2006 when you bought a Maxx pass last year. Same when they sold parking passes to all comers without saying you must have a pass from OUR park or an Ohio park to buy this pass...a Maxx pass is not good enough...you have to buy several of our passes to have parking in more than one park if you don't buy your Maxx pass in Ohio. How unrealistic. How unfair. Pardon me, but how STUPID. And to say, sorry we can't give you your money back, either? Who trained these people? A 1950's Department of Motor Vehicles office?).

I'm a bit amazed they never got a class action lawsuit on this one. I am SURE they annoyed a lot of people who may never buy another Cedar Fair pass again. Passes are supposed to be a handy convenience, not a source of aggravation and frustration.

Speaking of parking, at Kings Island, renewing passholders got free season parking. At Cedar Point, season parking was at first $50, then raised to $70. An Ohio parking pass was later announced, and you could upgrade to it, but at first ONLY at Cedar Point itself. Many paid for parking at other Ohio parks because they didn't know they could go to Cedar Point (or by mail) and upgrade. Do I need to mention that some Kings Island passholders got a $34.95 credit towards Ohio parking (even though they had not paid for parking at all) while others had to pay the entire $75, even though they HAD paid the $34.95 but had unfortunately lost their receipt (while the free ones didn't NEED a receipt?)

And, a Cedar Fair season parking pass is supposed to be good ONLY at the park where purchased (or throughout Ohio, as the case may be), yet many have reported here, as recently as in the last two days, that their Maxx pass HAS gotten them free parking at other parks in the chain. Does this mean those of us who paid for parking are chumps while others who have NOT paid for it are getting it free? Like those of us who got Cedar Fair Maxx passes and paid for Joe Cool are chumps who get no gold pass privileges at Kings Island, but at least some Kings Island Maxx passholders get Joe Cool treatment at Cedar Point (and have posted about it here)? What's up with this? Do people at Cedar Fair who administer these programs not know their own rules? The rules say home park perks are only good with passes from that park...Maxx or not.

Inconsistent rules, inconsistently applied, with widely differing results, and beneath it all a veneer of barely caring for the customer, if at all. Sigh.

I've posted way too much here already, but SOMEONE at Cedar Fair ought to think about all this. I tried telling Guest Relations, but honestly, I was told in these EXACT words: "Yes, it's a mess. You are telling US?" One shouldn't need to be a Philadelphia lawyer to figure out the terms of their season pass program. And heaven knows, the people they have administering aren't, and due to the highly complex terms, it is being administered unevenly, unfairly and even capriciously (for those who don't know, capriciously means in an abitrary fashion...what happens to you depends on who is applying the rules and how much they know and even what they want to do, it also means WE make the rules and YOU, little one, will live by them...most of all, it means unpredictable...if that doesn't explain the Cedar Fair season pass program and parking program, I don't know what does. It should be simple. It should be easy to understand. Situations such as do I have to pay to go to park X should be easy and reasonable people should not be able to differ as to the answer. It shouldn't even be possible to write this much about all the opportunities for inconsistent application of the program. In a word, it should be predictable. And fair. Right now, it most certainly is not.)

To be honest, the 2007 season pass program at Cedar Fair worked fine. As long as you didn't go to any other park other than your home park. Well, except for the exchanging of the temporary passes for permanent ones...a step that turned out to take hours and hours at Carowinds the first day...and turned out to be absolutely unnecessary to boot. It appears that very little thought was put into developing this year's program. They can do better. And for their sake, I sure hope they do.

[fan of beast]

the only issue we had this year was when we upgraded our gold passes to maxx passes, they didn't rollover the free parking we got when we purchased the passes last october. they did take care of it however, it was an extra trip to the pass center i shouldn't have had to make. we went to CP a few weeks ago with no problems. i did pay for parking up there. i didn't try using my maxx pass at the parking gate because i was under the assumption that parking on my pass was only good for KI.

[KIfan73]

Oh, I'd kind of forgotten about the confusion about the passes. This was my second season to have a pass, and I'd REALLY like to have another one for next year, but I really don't know if I can put myself through that process again. I just have a KI pass (the only park I'm really interested in going to). I remember last fall standing in two lines during Fearfest for an hour while the rest of my party was in the park riding rides. Then all the switching back and forth during the off-season wondering if I'd get free parking, or what benefits I'd have. Then, finally during my first trip this season turning in my temp pass, getting my gold pass, and asking the guy if the free parking was on my pass. "Oh, that had free parking on it?" ughhhh

I love going to KI, and the pass has been a good value for me. However, if there was this much hassle and confusion over something I HAD to do, that would be one thing. But, for something that is just for fun, and is a 140 mile round trip for me each time, I just don't know if I'll do it again.

[The Interpreter]

Thanks for reminding me! I'd completely forgotten that when they sold the passes at former Paramount Parks last fall, they had no idea whether they included parking or not and that decision was not made until much later. They also were saying that parking would be by means of a window decal (and on the OUTSIDE of your car)...a decision they later reversed, thankfully. That reversal was perhaps the only evidence of customer friendliness I have seen under the Cedar Fair season pass system so far.

They also said the gold pass perks were gone...then brought them back.

Paramount Parks did season passes better than anyone else in the industry. Too bad so little was carried over to the new program.

[PKIVortex]

They asked me if I wanted to keep my 2006 season pass, after I showed it to them at the ticket window, so I could get free parking. However some of the workers wasn't asking if they wanted to keep them or not and were just keeping them.

[cholderfield]

wow i can't believe how complicated and just plain crazy CF made that transition....especially since SOME people can use their passes for things they didn't even pay for ....

i have a question....i got my maxx pass from Cedar Point...does this mean i'm in the joe cool club...or is it just a possibility? lol

chris

[The Interpreter]

The Joe Cool Club is another $15, last I checked:

http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/admission...es/joe_cool.cfm

If you have it on your Cedar Point pass, the letters JC will be right on the pass. MX is Maxx. OP is Ohio Parking. That last one most parking attendants at Kings Island do NOT seem to know. More than once I have been forced to PAY for parking, even though the pass WILL scan, and then go to Guest Relations to get my money back...spending time I could be using to spend money in the park. As a matter of principle, when that happens, I reduce my inpark spending by at least ten dollars...sometimes then spending nothing at all.

Sigh.

[cholderfield]

The Joe Cool Club is another $15, last I checked:

http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/admission...es/joe_cool.cfm

If you have it on your Cedar Point pass, the letters JC will be right on the pass. MX is Maxx. OP is Ohio Parking. That last one most parking attendants at Kings Island do NOT seem to know. More than once I have been forced to PAY for parking, even though the pass WILL scan, and then go to Guest Relations to get my money back...spending time I could be using to spend money in the park. As a matter of principle, when that happens, I reduce my inpark spending by at least ten dollars...sometimes then spending nothing at all.

Sigh.

thats absolutely RIDICULOUS...luckily, i haven't had any problems (i do have the Ohio parking pass)...(two trips to KI, two trip to CP, one trip to GL)....

[BoddaH1994]

Did they ever change the Maxx Passes? I also upgraded from a KI pass to a Maxx Pass really early in the season. My Maxx pass is red, but I still get to park in the Gold lot. Is there any difference between the Maxx passes purchased in April and the ones purchased yesterday? Do all Maxx Passholders get Gold benefits?

On that same note, don't forget that the beginning of this season was a lot of firsts for a lot of people. On top of that, Maureen, who was guest experience manager at the time was in one of her last days with the company on opening day. Also, don't forget that her position wasn't even filled until a couple of weeks ago. I'm sure things will get better now.

[The Interpreter]

I'm sure they will, too. But MOST of the problems with this program had NOTHING to do with the people at Kings Island. Instead, they were designed in "gotchas" and confusing rules which would be difficult for anyone to administer at the park level, much less understand as a guest.

Compare any other chain's pass program. The pass rules are simple, the processing is generally fast and efficient and there certainly are not almost endless arguments about what is and is not covered, and who can and cannot buy and enjoy an upgrade. Imagine that, a pass program that is predictable.

That's what they need this coming year.

[Pagoda Gift Shop]

I wouldn't say the pass program at CP is all efficient. They have been struggling for years about what to do with parking passes. Ranging from a mark on the pass, to window decals, to number of eligible vehicles, etc.

With the acquisition of the Paramount Parks, the Cedar Fair chain is much closer together than ever before. That means, they are dealing with lots more passes being used at non-home parks. I think the Joe Cool thing is related to this. I highly doubt that the admission staff knows all the nuances with non-home park passes. It wouldn't surprise if they would let someone in early for Joe Cool if they explained that they were from a different park. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's the way it is. Heck, I've gotten into CP early with a regular ticket just because I was at the Magnum gate when all the resort guests in! CP has a lot more gates to enter the park (4 at last check), which means there are probably better chances that non-legit passes will be able to get in for Joe Cool even though they shouldn't. Things are bound to get better though I would imagine.

Parking may take a while longer to really be improved, since I know of no park that has really found a "good" way of doing it.

[TransAm78]

And yet we still dis on Paramount.

That was one thing i missed from the Paramount days, and i wish i would have used my KI season pass to hit up KD or carowinds. Now i have a gold pass (no parking) and i feel that it shouldnt be the same as last years if i dont get parking and the Paramount parks with it.

IMO this is what they should do

Season Pass (one park for $X)

CF or Parmount (Legacy parks for $XX)

MAXX Pass ( All parks for $XXX)

Maxx Plus (Parking, JC, Gold, every perk for $XXXX)

Change the designs, so that way it is obvious (season pass green, Paramount blue, CF red, Maxx, silver, Maxx plus gold)

That way there is no confusion.

OR

Season pass = ALL PARKS ala Paramount

[PKIDelirium]

I bought my Maxx Pass last September, and they didn't take my 2006 pass. I got the free parking pass, too.

[The Interpreter]

At Six Flags, a season parking pass from ANY USA Six Flags park (and Kentucky Kingdom doesn't offer them, since they don't own the parking lot) is good at ALL Six Flags parks in the USA.

And a Six Flags dry park pass from ANY USA Six Flags park is good at ALL Six Flags dry parks in the USA. Home park benefits (such as early entry) are good ONLY at the park where the pass is purchased.

And several Six Flags parks are very close together, indeed...especially in the Northeast/DC areas.

Water park passes are good only at the water park where purchased.

What's so complicated about that?

[upstop]

Apparently they decided to fore-go best practices in order to get as much money as they could as quickly as possible. They had already begun to sell tickets when people heard that certain perks were gone.....oops....add them back because we are losing money....but leave out the parking....oops we're losing money again....add parking but not at all parks....oops we're losing money again.....etc.

I, for one, will be waiting for a seasons pass until the pass situation is worked out, and ....everything depends on what the next attraction is going to be.

(got my Universal Studios 2 year pass 2 parks, free parking, 10 percent discount on hotel, food and gifts, discounts on Halloween Horror nights... best of all 2 YEARS from sept 30.) I'm covered for next year without KI.

[The Interpreter]

I figure a lot of people who were treated VERY discourteously, brusquely and even coldly will not be buying a Cedar Fair season pass next year. I will, and Maverick alone would be reason enough. I ain't typical.

Between CBS's practices its last couple of seasons and the season pass fiasco this season along with how Guest Relations has treated more than a few people, not to mention the food pricing and quality (or lack thereof), Cedar Fair is quickly gaining a reputation not at all unlike the old Six Flags. It takes a loooong time to undo that type of damage. Ask Mr. Shapiro and Six Flags.

[Pagoda Gift Shop]

That's a bit of a stretch I think. It's now been about 1 year since the take over. Have things improved in that 1 year? I would say they have. Sure they're not perfect, or up to where they should be yet, but they are moving in the right direction. I'm sure season passes will be handled better this year than last. If not, I'll eat my words.

The problems described have mainly been relative to the Paramount merger, not to the Cedar Fair company chain as a whole. If there were significant problems with guest relations/season passes at that level, it would be obvious at all the parks, not just the former Paramount ones.

Food prices and quality? I agree they do suck, but no worse than what's being offered any where else. Pricing at Six Flags is just as bad if not worse.

I would guess that if you asked some higher-ups at Cedar Fair whether there were still quite a few issues to iron out or not, they would flat out agree with you. I have yet to see anyone covering up or lying about the way things really are. Mergers are complicated, especially big ones.

[PKIVortex]

It's exactly been 1 year and 1 month. June 30th 2006 was the official day CF took over.

[hauntguy]

I come from a belief that Gold Pass holders should be treated, well.... like GOLD!!! The only pet-peive I have about the Gold Pass is the Speed Lanes; THAT'S IT!!

I believe that EVERY attraction and ride should have a speed lane and should be available to card holders on ANY day they could use the card. Instead, holders are forced to plan trips around KI's schedule!

I don't know, maybe its just me... but it doesn't seem "fair"... -Hauntguy

PS: Or is it "Fare"? IDK.

[Delirium33]

I come from a belief that Gold Pass holders should be treated, well.... like GOLD!!! The only pet-peive I have about the Gold Pass is the Speed Lanes; THAT'S IT!!

I believe that EVERY attraction and ride should have a speed lane and should be available to card holders on ANY day they could use the card. Instead, holders are forced to plan trips around KI's schedule!

I don't know, maybe its just me... but it doesn't seem "fair"... -Hauntguy

PS: Or is it "Fare"? IDK.

I totally agree- the speed lanes should at least be open EVERY BUSY day, whether its on a weekday or weekend. And how about some REAL meal deals suitable for ONE PERSON. The food prices are ridiculous as it is and I get no benefit from the meal deals because they're a joke- no one wants to spend the money for 4 drinks, a pizza AND a salad! I agree- gold pass holder SHOULD be treated like gold.

[PKIVortex]

The could have speed lanes at every ride, but only use them say on weekends, and on days the park is busy and has lines over 30 minutes or something. I'm really surprised Firehawk doesn't have one, I was wondering if they were thinking about it thought at one point, so it's very possible to go right to the left station from the entrance of the Que.

[Browntggrr]

I come from a belief that Gold Pass holders should be treated, well.... like GOLD!!! The only pet-peive I have about the Gold Pass is the Speed Lanes; THAT'S IT!!

I believe that EVERY attraction and ride should have a speed lane and should be available to card holders on ANY day they could use the card. Instead, holders are forced to plan trips around KI's schedule!

I don't know, maybe its just me... but it doesn't seem "fair"... -Hauntguy

PS: Or is it "Fare"? IDK.

Now speaking of being fair. Is it fair for a family that can only experience the park once a year to get stuck behind all of the locals that get to use their "Gold" pass to line jump them? You may believe that using the term "line jump" to be an extreme, but it is still what is happening. And many may not believe this, but, those families that can only come once a year will spend more money than season pass holders.

Cedar Fair was in a darned if you do, darned if you don't position late last year and early this year when it came down to season passes. Many people expected CF to carry on the same perks as Paramount had previously, so CF tried to make everyone happy, which is always a losing battle.

I expect the passes for 2008 to be much easier to understand.

[jondrewfoo]

The could have speed lanes at every ride, but only use them say on weekends, and on days the park is busy and has lines over 30 minutes or something. I'm really surprised Firehawk doesn't have one, I was wondering if they were thinking about it thought at one point, so it's very possible to go right to the left station from the entrance of the Que.

i think that is what they made that for... but its because its Firehawks first year at Kings Island, they never put in speed lanes on the first year rides. but i have had the priviledge of walking down that special walkway for Firehawk. it was an enlightening experience, they even let me put my backpack down there because its gate off inside yay! no 75 cent locker for me...

[hauntguy]

Browntggrr,

I would aggree that CF makes more money off that one family than one gold card holder. But that's ONLY only on food, gifts/souv., parking, and pay attractions. Rides... no money is made off ANYBODY!

Unless you count the familes tickets sale as "paying" for the rides... but even then most of that goes to bills and employment pay checks.

Everyone knows there are season passes and pass holders... and everyone knows that sometimes the holders will have perks that regular park goes won't have. EVERYONE knows that! Will this hurt that family that only comes once a year? NO!!! If they only come once a year then they've already planned in "line waiting" into there schedule (or at least if they're somewhat intelligent they should have)... and no pass holder would conflict with the families plans.

I'm just saying for a park to advertise speed lanes to pass holders... they should REALLY give it to them. On every attraction... on every operating day! Period. -Hauntguy

[Scooby_Doo]

Ya know the only reason I didnt renew my pass is because of the 30 dollar add on for parking I was hoping I would have gotten it free like in years past but they didnt offer it and I didnt get a pass heck I have yet to visit the park this year! but thats my only gripe take it as you will.

[Vortexlover2]

I agree with Browntggrr. It is unfair that people who can come all the time can cut in front of people who only have one chance to come every year. That's NOT what they paid for. I remember that one time someone had a trip report where they used that privelige, and the family they cut in front of complained. Those people probably didn't have a season pass. It's kind of rude to have someone think that they're next, and then have someone else cut in front of them because "I'm sorry, but they have a gold pass, and since you don't let them pass."

What happens if the the next train breaks down, and that family has to wait even longer than they already have, for it to be put on a transfer track, and have the next train come up, when that gold pass person only waited about 3 seconds?

to me that's VERY unfair.

But, we'll have to blame paramount for that one.

~vl2

[Browntggrr]

Everyone knows there are season passes and pass holders... and everyone knows that sometimes the holders will have perks that regular park goes won't have. EVERYONE knows that! Will this hurt that family that only comes once a year? NO!!! If they only come once a year then they've already planned in "line waiting" into there schedule (or at least if they're somewhat intelligent they should have)... and no pass holder would conflict with the families plans.

The GP does not know they will have to wait longer. They expect to wait in line as long as everyone else. If everyone that gets a season pass upgrdes to "gold" that really kills the park experiance for those who really look foward to it once a year. Make the perk a ERT, early or late, but don't hurt the average guest.

And sure it will hurt the family that comes one a year. Once they get burned by it, they will go to another park next year. Which in the end hurts KI, and us as well. Less revenue=less "high experiance" rides. I really could do without another IJ or TR;TR that is not kept up.

[JjAmSaOnN]

I agree, they aren't fair and are really unnecessary. I would much rather have an ERT as a passholder. Only problem is now everyone is used to having these perks. Solution, do some alternative. More ERT's, bring a friend free day (or half price), meal discounts, special events.

It also requires more employees in some cases to manage the que to handle this so it really is more overhead and cost for the park. Why not do something like single rider line that way anyone can elect this line and it hurts no one! Single riders can fill up the trains to capacity instead of going out with empty seats and this would increase riders per hour and keep the lines down and help keep them out of line and in the park spending money.

[BoddaH1994]

I agree, they aren't fair and are really unnecessary. I would much rather have an ERT as a passholder. Only problem is now everyone is used to having these perks. Solution, do some alternative. More ERT's, bring a friend free day (or half price), meal discounts, special events.

It also requires more employees in some cases to manage the que to handle this so it really is more overhead and cost for the park. Why not do something like single rider line that way anyone can elect this line and it hurts no one! Single riders can fill up the trains to capacity instead of going out with empty seats and this would increase riders per hour and keep the lines down and help keep them out of line and in the park spending money.

Discounted tickets and comp tickets are probably gone forever, per Cedar Fair's pricing integrity policy.

[Kman6]

Hopefully the free parking will be offered with the gold passes again this fall. Its a great deal if you can get it especially when you pay $10 just to park. If they don`t offer it I`ll seriously consider not getting passes nextyear. I`ll hope that Kroger has them on sale for $20 like they did this past June. As for the pass perks I`m for early ride times for gold holders instead of speed lanes. That way the once a season family doesn`t feel slighted and the perks are still enjoyed.