If they tear down Son Of Beast...

[mech]

so you are saying that Adventure Express is more popular than Firehawk because it has at least twice the amount of people riding it each year?

YES!

That's what I've been trying to say! If more people ride it, then odds are it's more popular!

How about this: If ridership doesn't make a ride more popular, then what does?

I dont want to come off as mean but ridership has little to do with it...

acorrding to the website:

FH can work with 800 riders per hour...

AE has 1600 riders per hour...

Avg wait for AE... Walk on

Avg wait for FH... 30+ minutes (someone correct me on this if im wrong i never ride it due to the wait is never worth the ride)

Ridership does more with the ride itself and the workers who run it, not the public

[Browntggrr]

Oh: and by the way: Ridership is basically THE way to gauge popularity.

Its more than fitting. Son of Beast makes Kings Islands skyline. It wasthe tallest ride in the park, and its smack dab in the front. Removing it is more than super obvious. If you put ANYTHING and i mean anything that is in the low 100 ft range, people will know it. No matter if it smashes every other coaster in terms of awesomeness whether it be with airtime, laterals, g forces, or a new type of ride it wont matter, the general public will think of it as that puny coaster Kings Island put in place of SOB.

You guys are both on crack.

Just from a numbers standpoint, in order, at CP in 2008:

*numbers denote total ridership*

Magnum: 1,789,387

MF: 1,683,845

Raptor: 1,609,503

ID: 1,563,269

Gemini: 1,549,768

TTD: 1,210,327

Maverick: 1,131,319

CS:1,109,256

Mantis: 1,016,505

WT: 971,470

DT: 944,853

MS: 849,746

CCMR: 842,087

BS: 791,655

Now, if you divide the total ridership by the estimated capacity per hour you get, again in order:

*hrs. denote total hours with full capacity*

MF: 1052 hrs.

Maverick: 942 hrs.

Magnum: 894 hrs.

Raptor: 894 hrs.

TTD: 806 hrs.

WT: 802 hrs.

ID: 781 hrs.

CS: 616 hrs.

BS: 608 hrs.

Mantis: 564 hrs.

MS: 531 hrs.

DT: 524 hrs.

Gemini: 469 hrs.

CCMR: 350 hrs.

First, these are VERY rough numbers that DO NOT take: weather, downtime, ERT, CoasterMania etc. or if the ride operates during Halloweekends. So don't split hairs. This is the information given, so this is what we have to use.

If we believed that total ridership equaled popularity, Magnum is # 1. That also means Gemini & ID are more popular than Maverick & TTD. I'm sorry, but that is laughable, because there is NO WAY either of those rides are more popular than Maverick & TTD.

Next does bigger mean better? Well TTD is the highest, and only reaches #6 in rides and #5 in capacity/ hr. Maverick @ 105' is #2 above the much larger TTD, Magnum, & Raptor.

Now if you added where each coaster ranked for both catagories, lower the number being the more popular for my little experiment:

1. MF

2. Magnum

3. Raptor

4. Maverick

5. ID

6. TTD

7. CS

8. WT

9. Gemini

10. Mantis

11. BS

12. DT

13. MS

14. CCMR

And just for those that believe a long line means the ride is popular: ID is usually a 15 minute wait. TTD usually has about an hour wait, but here you can see the compared ridership & capacity- ID is equaled in popularity. Again, laughable.

*Disclaimer*

There was absolutely no science used here.

[TheSonofBeast]

I didnt say that it had to be record breaking to be a great coaster.

No? Then what did you mean by this:

i feel that if Son of Beast were to go, something crazy, REAL record breaking, not just stupid mundane record breaking coaster...

Added BOLD emphasis:

Its more than fitting. Son of Beast makes Kings Islands skyline. It wasthe tallest ride in the park, and its smack dab in the front.

Eiffel Tower is about 350'

Drop Tower is 315'

SoB is 218'

How do you possibly believe that SoB is the tallest ride?

And even then, the most impressive thing with the KI skyline is the Eiffel Tower. SoB isn't even close.

I meant to say coaster. It was the tallest coaster at Kings Island. I Honestly think the top 3 things in Kings Islands skyline are The Eiffel Tower, drop zone, and Son of Beast. it is a beauty to look at. and i didnt say that i believe a small coaster cant be good or shouldnt be good, im saying for that piece of land it should be big or Kings Island will have the public ticked off that they lost a giant ride to receive a small one. It has nothing to do with whether or not i would like the coaster. Diamondback is one of my least favorite at ki and it is quite tall, and Maverick is my absolute favorite at Cedar Point. This is not what i want to be there, its what i feel should be there on that piece of land.

[Browntggrr]

^ All you can really easily see of SoB (unless you are on the Eiffel Tower) is the first hill. And just from an aesthetic standpoint, Vortex is better.

You really think the public is going to be ticked off to lose SoB? C'mon. The ride has been nothing but a sob from day 1, and it has only graced the skyline for 10 years. If anything, being able to see the ride just brings up failed memories for many people.

And for that piece of land, you could put in 3 quality rides. Just because SoB has a large footprint does not mean the next ride has to equal it.

[Captain Picard]

I don't like Maverick and many others here don't. Just about everyone I have talked to that has been on it says they don't get why some think it's so great. I also don't know why everyone went from wanting the biggest and baddest to wanting just your average coaster. I would want the tallest fastest longest roller coaster with a lap bar that they could get.

[dakota2112]

I would want the tallest fastest longest roller coaster with a lap bar that they could get.

I think the gist of what people are saying is that bigger is not always better. And in some ways, SOB has proven that to be true, has it not?

A balance must be struck between quality (ride experience) and quantity (physical dimensions of the ride).

[Captain Picard]

I do not agree that SOB failed because of how tall or long it is.

[Beast1979]

Poor execution. We've gone through this before, the way Paramount handled it caused it to fail (If you want to consider it's current state a fail)

[Buckeye Brad]

To answer the original question:

If they tear it down I'd love to see these 3 things:

1. Family flat ride

2. Thrill flat ride

3a. Big epic Gravity Group woodie (like the Voyage or Fireball)

or

3b. B&M terrain (footchoppers!) invert. Ideally it would have a new train design for better visibility for inside riders. The Deja-Vu train design was unliked by many, so perhaps B&M could come up with a better solution.

[Diamondback FOF]

^^Why 2015? That is still a long way away. KI could put something there within three or four years instead of something else somewhere else.

If the decision for SoB to be dismantled come during the 2009-2010 offseason, I expect the actual work to start after the 2010 season. That gives the park a good 4 years to decide what to do with the land, if anything at all. Normally, there is a 3-5 year window of planning a major ride like a coaster for any park.

IF the park wanted to, they could replace SOB by 2013. Take down SOB during the 2010 off season and finish in 2011 or 2011 off season. While doing that, they could decide what to do with the space. Build in 2012, open in 2013. But, I would think 2014 if a replacement is to be anything uniquely designed. I would hope they would want to replace within a couple years rather than waiting longer.

[Beast1979]

I have a hard time believing the decision on Son of Beast's fate is still up in the air. They've had since June to think, why wait until the offseason to think about it?

[CoastersRZ]

I don't like Maverick and many others here don't. Just about everyone I have talked to that has been on it says they don't get why some think it's so great. I also don't know why everyone went from wanting the biggest and baddest to wanting just your average coaster. I would want the tallest fastest longest roller coaster with a lap bar that they could get.

I agree. I am not a fan of Maverick. I rode it in 2007 and again this summer, I am just not a fan and do not understand why people think so highly of the ride.

I too would love to see a B&M invert coaster eventually make its way to Kings Island. One of my favorite rides is Afterburn down at Carowinds in Charlotte, NC. I think that a B&M invert would be a huge hit at KI, much like Diamondback has been a huge hit. And since it is a B&M, capacity is excellent.

If Kings Island ever decided to build another wooden coaster, I would hope that they would continue the recent trend within Cedar Fair, and go with the Gravity Group. Thunderhead at Dollywood is amazing!

[Beast1979]

and go with the Gravity Group. Thunderhead at Dollywood is amazing!

I think you mean Great Coasters International.

And I wholeheartedly agree, if a wooden coaster came our way then GCI would definitely be wonderful.

[josh4958]

["Captain Cliché" theme music plays]

An animal safari with a monorail would be nice!

[Kryptonite anvil falls on Captain Cliche's head, and the screen fades to black.]

Only if the exit leads directly into a gift shop!!

[CoastersRZ]

and go with the Gravity Group. Thunderhead at Dollywood is amazing!

I think you mean Great Coasters International.

And I wholeheartedly agree, if a wooden coaster came our way then GCI would definitely be wonderful.

Yep. I meant to say GCI. It happens to the best of us. Just ask Interpreter about that blue B&M coaster at Cedar Point !

[The Interpreter]

Note the topic title.

Note the date.

Note who was posting...

I would expect KI's next coaster might likely be a B&M full circuit invert.

Shaggy

Terp, notin' that when some write, the astute should note carefully...

[KIBeast]

Shaggy made the correct call. He said look for a B&M invert as the next major coaster. Psychic?

So Shaggy, wherever you are, what's the next coaster?

The title should have said "When", not if.

[KIFan1]

I would like to see a B&M stand up coaster back in the park.

[JubJester]

I would like to see a B&M stand up coaster back in the park.

Thats going to be hard to see because they are kind of not liked by most people anymore. Also it has been a while since a brand new stand up was built

[KIFan1]

I would like to see a B&M stand up coaster back in the park.

Thats going to be hard to see because they are kind of not liked by most people anymore. Also it has been a while since a brand new stand up was built

That maybe but if you think about it. All that needs to happen is for B&M to redesign the harness. Plus inverts weren't built for a long time. So stand ups may come back one day.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

Look at what Cedar Fair is doing with all of their stand-ups, one has been sold and the other is becoming a floorless sit down coaster. To me that is a strong message from FUN saying they are done with stand-ups.

[KIBeast]

I would say that with the recent conversion of Mantis to Rougarou, the stand ups are going to be but a memory once their lifespan is over. And the harness was only part of the problem. Most men didn't like the little seat that fit between your legs, for obvious reasons.

More than likely, you would see a floorless installed before a stand up.

[coasterfanatic83]

I would like to see a B&M stand up coaster back in the park.

Thats going to be hard to see because they are kind of not liked by most people anymore. Also it has been a while since a brand new stand up was built

That maybe but if you think about it. All that needs to happen is for B&M to redesign the harness. Plus inverts weren't built for a long time. So stand ups may come back one day.

B&M Inverts weren't built for a while because mostly everyone who wanted one and could afford one already had one.

[shark6495]

Look at what Cedar Fair is doing with all of their stand-ups, one has been sold and the other is becoming a floorless sit down coaster. To me that is a strong message from the current owners and operators of FUN saying they are done with stand-ups.

Fixed!

[JubJester]

I would like to see a B&M stand up coaster back in the park.

Thats going to be hard to see because they are kind of not liked by most people anymore. Also it has been a while since a brand new stand up was built

That maybe but if you think about it. All that needs to happen is for B&M to redesign the harness. Plus inverts weren't built for a long time. So stand ups may come back one day.

Yea. Good point. I could see them re-designing stand ups.

[silver2005]

^If that's the case, how come a new one hasn't been built since 1999?

[KIFan1]

Just because Cedar Point is changing their stand up coaster DOESN'T mean stand ups are done. Carowinds and Great America's stand ups are doing fine. Plus Six Flags stand ups are doing fine so it's a matter of what the park wants so I could see KI in a few years deciding to add a stand up coaster. Plus Cedar Point is one park, it's not like just because they do something that everybody will do it.

[silver2005]

To me, the only way to make stand ups 'comfortable' is to limit the size, or make things really drawn out making for potentially boring rides. The bigger ones can be hard on people's legs. To me, its also a bit more difficult to maintain body control standing up in the types of restraints they have to use.

[KIFan1]

To me, the only way to make stand ups 'comfortable' is to limit the size, or make things really drawn out making for potentially boring rides. The bigger ones can be hard on people's legs. To me, its also a bit more difficult to maintain body control standing up in the types of restraints they have to use.

How would you feel if they used the wing coaster restraints like what's used on Banshee?

[KIBeast]

Face it man, stand ups are done. Nobody has said that they are just going to automatically start converting all stand ups to floorless. You have to consider that some of these parks that have stand ups also have floorless, so there would be no need for a conversion. Now, it's just time to wait for them to get to the end of their useful life. Standing up on a coaster was a novelty and it's just not an interesting concept. You can't really compare the time between last invert installed and last stand up installed because you are talking about 2 very different reasons. Most parks that wanted inverts had them, so no new installations for a while. On the other hand, no stand ups are being installed because the re-rideability sucks quite frankly. Inverts aren't losing popularity. Stand ups are.