IndyGuy4KI Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 One thing that I did not see you touch on here, where would those 309 people be if they were not in the Fast Lane queue? Something to also consider is that they could have already been in front of you in the line making your wait time the same. Now, I would agree that the people that got the rerides would have changed the wait time and that equals out to 30 seats for all the rides taken for those people, so a one train wait. By watching the video here, it takes about 2:11 from the time the train starts to move out of the station to the final break run. Most trains are send out about the time the train in front if it hits the helix which is about 1 minute and 43 seconds. So a train is sent out lets say 1:50 to be on the safe side, and I think some times they get it done closer to the 1:40 mark if loading went smooth. So, if all 309 people were in line in front of you anyway, your wait time would have only increased by 1:50 for the 1 train wait for the re-riders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcgoble3 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Joncars05, please read this exchange from a couple pages back: To allow the Fast Lane program to double the wait of a great capacity ride like DB ( I timed it one Satuday night-the wait from Rivertown Junction increased from a normal 50 minute wait to 1 hour 55 minute) to me is absolute madness. Let me play devil's advocate here for a minute. You may be comparing apples and oranges there, and here's why: Those guests in the FL would, without FL, all be in the regular line, making the regular line longer. It might be that the wait time in a given situation is the same as it would be without FL, only that the the line is physically shorter (because guests are split between two lines instead of all being in one line) and thus misleading you as to what the wait time without FL would be. Does that make sense? This would only account for people in the Fast Lane pre getting in line. Wait times will be increased due to people getting in line after someone get in line. I'm not against the Fast Lane pass in any way but I do not agree that the wait times are not affected. But while it does not account for people who pass you in the FL after you're in line, think about people who used FL and rode before you got in line but who would have otherwise, without FL, still been in line ahead of you when you got in line. At first glance, those people, taken alone, should shorten your wait compared to no FL because they're no longer in line. Those people will likely be similar in number to the people who get in the FL after you enter the standby line and who, taken alone, lengthen your wait, and I would guess that those two factors cancel each other out nicely, leaving my previous explanation still valid. That argument is the same as saying, if there were only one single line, to think about the people that rode at 10AM when I get into line at 5PM. They have already been through and forgotten about. Those rides would have went weather I was in line or not. Anyone entering the FL post me getting into the standby line increases my wait by their ride.Basically the same as if I were waiting in line and decide to let someone in front of me to ride with their larger group. My wait time increases by 1 train cycle. What I'm trying to say is this: let's say that pre-FL, your wait time would have been 45 minutes, meaning that 45 minutes of riders are in line ahead of you when you get in line. With FL, let's say that of those 45 minutes worth of riders, one-third purchase a FL wristband and use the FL before you get in line, thus reducing the standby line to what appears to be (from your pre-FL experience) a 30-minute wait when you get in line. While you are in line, 15 minutes worth of riders enter the FL and pass you. Add those last two figures together, and you end up waiting 45 minutes, which is the same length of time you would have waited without FL. In other words, yes, those who pass you in the FL slow down the standby line, but that increase is offset by the reduction in the initial length of the line, which you don't see. Essentially, what we need to do is throw away our preconceived notions of "a line to this point is this long of a wait", because those "timepoints" have been changed by FL, even though the actual wait times have not changed much, if at all. The point here is that if we assume FL usage is consistent, those 309 people who passed you were offset by 309 people who used FL before you got in line but would have otherwise still been in the regular line ahead of you when you got in line. Either way, you still would have had to wait on everyone ahead of you in the regular line when you got in + 309 other people. Whether those other 309 people were ahead of you in the standby line or passed you in the FL doesn't matter. FL does not increase wait times except by re-riding, and re-riding, based on reports so far, doesn't seem to be very common. You reported only two instances of re-riding while you were in line, namely a group of four that rode six times (4 × 5 = 20 re-rides, remember that the initial ride doesn't affect the wait) and a group of two that rode three times (2 × 2 = 4 re-rides). That's only 24 extra riders. So FL may have made you wait one extra train. That's it. Contrary to appearances, it did not increase your wait time by 35%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joncars05 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 @IndyGuy4KI I know what you are saying but the people that entered the Fast Lane line when I was in line wouldve been behind me. You are correct in the fact that those 309 people could have been somewhere else in the park without a Fast Lane pass. I'm just going with the fact that I entered the Diamondback line before them therefore they would've been behind me in the regular line meaning my wait time wouldve been decreased by 17 minutes for my single ride. As for the video it shows the time from station to station (as soon as the train was dispatched until the train returned to the station and stopped) So thats how I counted the cycle for all three trains. But ultimately the people would have been behind me in the line therefore not affecting my wait time. But with Fast Lane they were allowed to jump in front of me, increasing my wait time by 35%. The arguement that they wouldve been in line anyways is a valid one, only if they were in line before me. Once I start waiting in line that arguement is null and void. Because they cut in front of me in the line. Fast Lane users increase my wait time by adding extra riders in front of me. Its fine up to a point. A 35% increase in wait time on a relatively light Sunday is frustrating. I don't like Fast Lane but I would love to see them find a good balance between the perk and the others waiting in the regular line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joncars05 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (The point here is that if we assume FL usage is consistent, those 309 people who passed you were offset by 309 people who used FL before you got in line but would have otherwise still been in the regular line ahead of you when you got in line.) Maybe I just don't understand because I am a more visual person and Just see the 309 people passing us while i wait in line. I don't like assumptions because a lot of times they are wrong. (not an attack on you just seems like most of the times assuming leads to trouble). I could assume that those people who bought a Fast Lane pass would not ride at all without their FL pass. I could assume that if they didn't have a FL pass they wouldn't be in the same area i was. I could assume that If they didn't have the FL pass they wouldn't want to wait 45 minutes for a ride and they would skip the line. I could assume that they only ride the Diamondback in the latter hours of the day taking that assumption of them riding earlier with a FL off the table. Heck i could assume that they wouldn't even go to the KI if Fast Lane wasn't implemented. I'm not trying to be a jerk just trying to point out you could go down multiple avenues with assumptions. Heck I could be wrong and the lines would be 10x longer if everyone had to wait in the same line. Even if my wait isn't affected at all by Fast Lane, I just don't visually like seeing 309 people pass me in line just because they decided to spend $50 more. Thats just my personal opinion. Now if i follow my own advice here I'd say if you dont like it tough luck, you dont have to go to the park. But I as an individual can't do anything about FL so I have to either fork over the $50 and join the FL crowd or sit there and take it. Ill choose the latter because I like going to KI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jr for Birdy Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Many of the 20% are parents and kids at Planet Snoopy as well. I was in line for DB Sunday afternoon and we watched people on and off DB several times during our wait.The gentleman in front of us reminded his son they couldnt afford it. DANG YOU FASTLANE!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 What about the people sitting at home thinking about people like you who can go the park while they can't afford it? How many times did you ride while they didn't? Everything is relative. In days of old, people who spent the most money could ride the most. Nostalgia? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Being obsessive complusive about FL has a rather good chance to ruin your day at the park. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Waiting in DB's line last weekend while the FL people rattled their jewelery as they strolled past us, I asked an elderly gentleman behind us the time. We struck up a conversation and found out he'd been going to KI since it opened and he told us wonderful stories about he and his wife's many visits. Right before we split up to go to our rows, he said his wife had cashed in her chips recently and KI helps him remember the wonderful times they had together. This wait in line is something we'll remember forever, and every time we see him we'll wave and say hello. If it weren't for the FL lords and ladies flying past us, we wouldn't have heard his whole story. People here seem to mainly be complaining about a little lost time, while KI is making money that we will eventually see become a new coaster, flat ride, attraction, or just help keep the park open. I don't really see how you can be cheated out of time. What did the old hippie say: "Be Here Now" 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jr for Birdy Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Its growing on me but needs to have its limits. Watching 2 teenagers ride DB 4 times while we wait is kinda annoying.What really bothers me is seeing every other train with 5 or 6 empty seats!!!! Im being somewhat forced to purchase fastlane for CP this fall ( by the boss!) so i cant complain to much! Coming from a humble childhood, i am very greatful just to see my kids enjoy Kings Island more than just once every couple years if that. I feel like im living out my dream childhood with my kids sometimes,awesome feeling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 This should send Fast Lane whiners complainers for a loop: If you think paying $15 for a checked bag is steep consider what Spirit Airlines is doing to their passengers: the discount carrier discount carrier is now charging extra for seat reservations - $5 for middle seats, $10 for window and aisle seats and $15 for exit-row seats. http://travel.famili...strapped-flyers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennett Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The empty seats are a HUGE problem for the rides and the FL system. I agree, it is very frustrating to see car after car go up the hill on DB with 5,6, 7 empty seats. I think that the simple way to solve the issue is to have two or three rows, depending on crowd, reserved solely for FL riders, no more than that. If everyone else is waiting 90 minutes, FL riders can wait 10 or 15. And FILL UP THE CARS! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIVortex Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I think everything is coming to factor to the increased wait times. Before Fast Lane and with assigned seats a full que on DB was only 45 minutes. This past Saturday Full Que was almost 90 mintues. But they were empty seats on every train, and almost every train stacked before the train in the staion was dispatched. I wish KI ride ops would get the trains out like CP does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 ...or like Six Flags does for its similar rides (a la Nitro, Goliath at SFOG, etc.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standbyme Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 This should send Fast Lane whiners complainers for a loop: If you think paying $15 for a checked bag is steep consider what Spirit Airlines is doing to their passengers: the discount carrier discount carrier is now charging extra for seat reservations - $5 for middle seats, $10 for window and aisle seats and $15 for exit-row seats. As probably the head Fast Lane "whiner/complainer" this does not bother me because it is NOT the same thing...this is the equivalent that the better seats at a concert or ballgame cost more...it still comes down to the VERY simple fact that people are paying to step ahead of me in line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 ^ You can pick and choose all you want. Paying more for a perk, is paying more for a perk..... Just like those with ERT perks are paying to step ahead of you before the park opens at 10:00am and are already in line/ riding even if you get to the park at 8:00am. That is, unless you paid extra for a pass with perks..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsoran17 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 My opinion, I am very much against Fast Lane, and will always be. I do try to keep an open mind, however, I still believe this is just the rich kids fantasy. The wait times that I have seen have tripled from pre Fast Lane. At what point does corporate greed destroy the actual experience? I was at the park a few weeks back, and was in line for 6 to 8 hours, and rode 5 rides. I will NOT purchase a fast lase pass because I feel it is morally wrong, again, my opinion. At what point does the average person give up and quit going to the park because they can't afford the Fast Lane or don't want to pay a second time to ride after they get into the park. I have a gold pass, but live 2+ hours away and can't just pick up and go any old day. I have to plan a couple weeks ahead to go. After this year, we will be spending our money at Holiday World or Indiana Beach. How many more will quit coming to Cedar Fair because of this? Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 How many more will quit coming to Cedar Fair because of this? Just a thought. Probably about the same amount that have quit going to other parks that have, for years, had the same system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaw2294 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Your all complaining about $50..that's not bad at all! Especially compared to the eqivalent pass at universal studios Hollywood..$150 a person..I would have no problem paying $150 at Kings Island if it meant I didn't have to wait in lines! I have to say its rediculous there is a time limit..they should have a $75 pass for 10am to 10pm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 ^ It's not the cost many are upset with, but because the program allows people to jump ahead of others. I would like to see the price increased to at least $75. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaw2294 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 All I know is I'm going on June 4th and I AM buying one..ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 ^ Do you have a season pass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldiesmann Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Interestingly enough, Cedar Point has increased their Fast Lane price by $5, and they're an additional $5 each on Saturdays (so $55 for one during the week and $60 on Saturdays). Sounds like maybe it's been a bit too successful up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarketingExpress Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Is there such a thing as too successful? Maybe you meant to say that it's being utilized more often than they originally anticipated because of what they are charging. Don't be surprised if we see an increase in price at KI within the next few months if it remains as popular as it is right now. The question they are trying to answer is, at what price is FL not worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldiesmann Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 That is what I meant by "too" successful - it's possible that they were selling out sooner than they had planned and the demand was far greater than the amount they were willing to sell. It will be interesting to see if KI has a similar increase in their FL prices within the coming weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gad198 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 The question they are trying to answer is, at what price is FL not worth it? I think the better question is, what is the optimum point at which value for the Fast Lane user and minimizing the effects on non-Fast Lane users meet? Clearly at Cedar Point they're still experimenting to find that point, but it's pretty clear that it wasn't there at the $50 price point. I'm in agreement with Browntggrr, the price should be at least $75 at Cedar Point, particularly on Saturdays. The interesting thing about raising the price is that both sides actually win: there's fewer people likely buying the pass (which will make their experience better via shorter lines) and the non-user will also benefit (with shorter standby line times). I'm actually more interested to see how much Fast Lane prices vary for the smaller parks in the chain. I don't see value in the Worlds of Fun pass at $50, but I see a much larger value at Cedar Point at $55 because you're being offered a whole lot more. I wonder if Cedar Fair may decide to drop Fast Lane passes at their smaller parks at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcgoble3 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I have to say its rediculous there is a time limit..they should have a $75 pass for 10am to 10pm The noon to 7pm time limit only existed in the first couple of weeks or so after it was implemented. It was quickly lengthened to all day, and remains that way today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joncars05 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 That is what I meant by "too" successful - it's possible that they were selling out sooner than they had planned and the demand was far greater than the amount they were willing to sell. It will be interesting to see if KI has a similar increase in their FL prices within the coming weeks. I'm sure the price increase will come when the park becomes miserably packed during the weekends starting when school is fully out... Maybe in the next week or so at the beginning of June... They might decrease again towards the end of the summer session when the crowds go back down a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstop Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 How about these ideas.... in addition to the $35 Fast Lane. How about Fast Lane + ? For an additional $50 dollars, you can ride all of the Fast Lane rides three times in a row without ever leaving your seat and one trip trip to the front of the line of any concession! How about Fast Lane ++ ? For an additional $100 you can ride any ride in the park indefinitely during the course of the day without ever having to leave the seat of the ride and have a reserved seat for every show in the park, in the front three rows of a the venue, plus unlimited trips to any concession, front of the line! How about Fast Lane +++? For an additional $200 dollars per family member, you and your family would be driven from ride, to show, to water park in a golf cart! And for that special feeling of family togetherness, rides would be evacuated and only you and your family would ride for as many times as you want! Total cost would obviously include admission, and the Fast Lane pass cost for a total of $438.99 per person.....reasonable, right? The possibilites are endless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I take it you have not heard of the VIP experience. If that was an attempt at humor, in jest there is truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstop Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I'm positive that there will be more options in the future..... Fast Lane is only the beginning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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