Steel Dragon 2000 has received new B&Ms trains that use a new configuration. They have two rows of two seats per car but they're not staggered like Diamondback. So this leads me to ask out of B&M's three hyper coaster trains, (4-abreast like Leviathan, 2 rows staggered like Diamondback or 2 rows not staggered like Steel Dragon 2000) which one do you think is better and which would you like to see on Kings Island's next coaster?

Here are some links,

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nagashima-onsen.co.jp%2Fpage.jsp%3Fid%3D10589

http://vhcoasters.com/2013/03/17/steel-dragon-2000-adds-bm-trains/#

I prefer the seats to be staggered like Diamondback. Unless I'm sitting front-front, I like the outside left seat. (Even # rows)

I'm really interested in trying the 4-abreast design, could be a fun experience!

I really want to know what changed at B&M in the past two or three years. Out of nowhere, they're doing all the things you'd never expect out of B&M.

I like the look of the Steel Dragon trains, but I don't expect to see them on many (if any) major new B&M installations. It cuts down on capacity, which is part of the draw of B&M rides. I do wonder if any other Morgan or Arrow megacoasters will receive them. Gotta admit that I don't know if Magnum would be the same for me without the hard lapbar. (Yeah, I'm weird. )

Until I rode Nitro last summer, I thought there would be a drastic difference between the staggered trains and the 4-across. Frankly, I didn't notice that much of a difference, except that you're freer on one (or both) sides to swing your arms and legs on the staggered trains. I don't mean that cynically; it just wasn't as different as I'd expected. In other words, I don't have that much of a preference.

And I love the Morgan steel coaster trains a la Steel Force, Mamba, etc.

Right now I would oppose putting these new trains on an existing coaster like Mamba. I suspect it would increase the minimum rider height by 4-6 inches and reduce hourly capacity by a third.

nd I sincerely doubt the ride experience would improve even an iota.

My favorite B&M trains are the ones like Apollo's Chariot. I love that ride.

That's the only Morgan those trains would work on. All the others, and all the Arrows as well, have the guide wheels on the inside of the rails, not on the outside like Steel Dragon.

Those trains have leg restrains. I hope this isn't a sign of things to come.

Did anyone else notice the leg restraints on these new trains? That seems kind of weird in itself. I love the way my legs are free in other B&M megas.

Edit: AHHHH!!! You beat me to it!!!

But did you also notice the little lock mechanism at the bottom of the seat and on the lap

2nd edit: Never mind, they're just seat belts, I didn't look close enough.

That's the only Morgan those trains would work on. All the others, and all the Arrows as well, have the guide wheels on the inside of the rails, not on the outside like Steel Dragon.

True but I'm sure B&M could make trains with guide wheels on the inside if the park really wanted them. *cough* Magnum *cough*

Interesting. Not a fan of the leg restraints. However, those could be due to the area of the park, placing restrictions.

That's the only Morgan those trains would work on. All the others, and all the Arrows as well, have the guide wheels on the inside of the rails, not on the outside like Steel Dragon.

True but I'm sure B&M could make trains with guide wheels on the inside if the park really wanted them. *cough* Magnum *cough*

The day they put new trains on Magnum is the day I stop giving Cedar Fair my money!

The sole thing I hate about those Morgan trains... they're SO loud going up the lift.

I, too, noticed the leg restraints and wondered about that myself. Hoping it was the customer that wanted them, and not a future feature of all B&M cars.

I like the staggered cars, my niece won't go onto DB unless she's in one of the closer together backseats, so she can grab and claw unmercifully at her ride partner (me).

You all seem to forget, that this is not the first time B&M has created ride vehicles for another company's track.

Psyclone that used to be at Magic Mountain had trains by B&M.

You all seem to forget, that this is not the first time B&M has created ride vehicles for another company's track.

Psyclone that used to be at Magic Mountain had trains by B&M.

We try to forget about those.

I actually liked them. I was one of VERY few. I also ADORED Psyclone.

It has been speculated elsewhere that the seatbelts and leg restraints were added at the park and not by B&M.

You all seem to forget, that this is not the first time B&M has created ride vehicles for another company's track.

Psyclone that used to be at Magic Mountain had trains by B&M.

We try to forget about those.

Hard to forget about them when they use them on Colossus every year at Haunt to run it backwards. I got the opportunity to ride in those trains during my visit to California back in October. I thought they were rather comfortable, and without a seatbelt was a plus. It was rather funny that they still had the name "Psyclone" written on the side of the train as well.

Terpy, since you liked those trains as well as Morgan trains, we obviously have very similar taste. I love the Morgan trains.

Those trains have leg restrains. I hope this isn't a sign of things to come.

Same here. I have a relative who had knee surgery and cannot bend his knee in that position, due to sever pain. Same reason he cannot ride BLSC most of the time.

I'm not surprised that the new trains have leg restraints. DB, Behemoth, Leviathan, Apollo's Chariot, etc, might not have leg restraints because those are the coasters that B&M built so they might not need them. Leg restraints might be a requirement since Steel Dragon is receiving new, open air trains because it is an old type of coaster that was not built by B&M.

My two cents

So what type of leg restraints are on Phantom's Revenge at Kennywood, since Arrow built the original coaster and Morgan modified it?

Terp, who likes to ask questions

Restraints are not fun on The Racers and BLSC period, the D-Back not so much, but for those, it doesn't feel fun.

So what type of leg restraints are on Phantom's Revenge at Kennywood, since Arrow built the original coaster and Morgan modified it?

Terp, who likes to ask questions

They're invisible. You can't feel them either....

Leg restraints are not fun on The Racers and BLSC period, the D-Back not so much, but for those, it doesn't feel fun.

The Racer and Diamondback don't have leg restraints.

Leg restraints are not fun on The Racers and BLSC period, the D-Back not so much, but for those, it doesn't feel fun.

The Racer and Diamondback don't have leg restraints.

Well, what I mean is the lap bar, it just hurts on the second air-time.

Leg restraints are not fun on The Racers and BLSC period, the D-Back not so much, but for those, it doesn't feel fun.

The Racer and Diamondback don't have leg restraints.

Well, what I mean is the lap bar, it just hurts on the second air-time.

Especially when the lap bar doesn't go all the way down to your legs. You go over that first hill and feel like your going to fly out of that seat then the bar smashes into your leg. ouch. As I've grown more its not as bad.... but along with BB1 it just hurts, but its defiantly worth it lol.

So what type of leg restraints are on Phantom's Revenge at Kennywood, since Arrow built the original coaster and Morgan modified it?

Terp, who likes to ask questions

Maybe he's saying it's because the new trains are the open-air style like DB? Both Arrow and Morgan trains would be fairly similar.

Apparently you haven't ridden Phantom's Revenge. Neither the train modifications nor the ride experience are remotely Arrow-like.