Starting to Decode 2014

[HTCO]

Not trying to turn this thread into an Intamin vs B&M, but I will just say ... Intafail? No quality? So Milennium Force, Bizarro, Top Thrill Dragster, El Toro, I-305, Cheetah Hunt, Maverick, Formula Rossa, etc, yeah those coasters are garbage. That explains why there's never a line to ride them. Wonder how such a non quality producing company can do it for 35 years.

Thanks for the pics Oldiesmann.

The "line to ride them" is only there because they are down all the time...

[RomanMaroney]

Not trying to turn this thread into an Intamin vs B&M, but I will just say ... Intafail? No quality? So Milennium Force, Bizarro, Top Thrill Dragster, El Toro, I-305, Cheetah Hunt, Maverick, Formula Rossa, etc, yeah those coasters are garbage. That explains why there's never a line to ride them. Wonder how such a non quality producing company can do it for 35 years.

Thanks for the pics Oldiesmann.

The "line to ride them" is only there because they are down all the time...

That was a good one.

I wonder if the gate is broke down too at CP creating an illusion of all those people wanting to get in there to ride those crappy Intamins?

[kblanken]

Right now Gatekeeper is running, TTD and and Maverick are both down...

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

Not trying to turn this thread into an Intamin vs B&M, but I will just say ... Intafail? No quality? So Milennium Force, Bizarro, Top Thrill Dragster, El Toro, I-305, Cheetah Hunt, Maverick, Formula Rossa, etc, yeah those coasters are garbage. That explains why there's never a line to ride them. Wonder how such a non quality producing company can do it for 35 years.

Thanks for the pics Oldiesmann.

Not trying to turn this thread into an Intamin vs B&M, but I will just say ... Intafail? No quality? So Milennium Force, Bizarro, Top Thrill Dragster, El Toro, I-305, Cheetah Hunt, Maverick, Formula Rossa, etc, yeah those coasters are garbage. That explains why there's never a line to ride them. Wonder how such a non quality producing company can do it for 35 years.

Thanks for the pics Oldiesmann.

The "line to ride them" is only there because they are down all the time...

How many B&Ms have been down most of their inaugural year, like TTD? How many B&Ms have had to be modified after construction was completed, like Maverick and I-305? How many chains have snapped on B&Ms, like MF? How many B&Ms have stranded riders 420 feet in the air multiple times, again like TTD? How many B&Ms have had cable snapped during a launch, like TTD and Xcelerator?

[UnrealNightmare]

You guys seem to forget some of the other Intamin's that are not Cedar Fair creations. Like Fahrenheit, Storm Runner, Bizzaro, El Toro, iSpeed, and many more. Just because a handful of them had problems doesn't mean they are all crap. If I'm correct most of the rides were first of their kind or there were very few of them.

[pyrocoasterkid]

I've heard nothing but amazing things about the Intamin Mega-Lite coasters that have come out so far. I think in terms of intensity, Intamin takes the cake. B&M are great rides, but tend to be lower on the forces. Like someone said a bit ago, I'm not really interested in getting a taller, slightly different Diamondback, like Canada's Wonderland kind of did (even if Leviathan and Behemoth aren't all that similar). I want something completely different ride-wise....along the lines of the mega-lites, or Maverick or I305. Only time will tell.

[LongLiveTheSmurfRide]

I'm preeeeeetty sure if it was announced that this was just a boring old B&M giga we would all still be lining up first day.

[RomanMaroney]

You guys seem to forget some of the other Intamin's that are not Cedar Fair creations. Like Fahrenheit, Storm Runner, Bizzaro, El Toro, iSpeed, and many more. Just because a handful of them had problems doesn't mean they are all crap. If I'm correct most of the rides were first of their kind or there were very few of them.

Yeah I mentioned Bizarro and El Toro. I was just trying to make the case that we don't "know" this new ride is a B&M yet. I mentioned Intamin builds quality and are quite versitile which brought a picture of laughter to some. I'm not favoring either over the other. Intamin has built and continues to build some really good rides, and to just act like there's no chance Intamin could be behind this new ride seems short sighted to me. If what we are seeing is the beginning of a giga coaster, i would rather it be an Intamin so that it is different from Diamondback in more ways than just taller and faster. However, I am sure i will enjoy whatever they are building.

[Zayzayd13]

I'm a person who likes steep, long drops do getting a "larger version" of Diamondback wouldn't be so bad. But when you think about it, Behemoth and Leviathan at CW are nothing alike. Behemoth is about drops and airtime, while Leviathan is focused more on speed. Just because they are made by the same company does not mean that they are the same.

[UnrealNightmare]

Leviathan probably has one of the most boring layouts I have ever seen. So If it is a Giga I hope it has a lot more twisty turns. I also hope they don't cut the ride short like they did Leviathan. Just over 5.4k feet and it's taller then 300ft? How high off the ground is that final brake run again?

[dr_humor]

There is little doubt that B & M coasters are historically more reliable, but there is a simple reason for this; they don't take as many risks as Intamin.

Intamin, for whatever reason, is consistently reinventing the technology of rides as they go. They have a large margin for risk in their rides.

The downside? Modifications, downtime, etc...

The upside? You are responsible for the worlds top wooden (El Toro) and steel coaster (MF)...and Maverick.

Top Thrill Dragster is no longer the disaster it once was, it took the park nearly 5 years to get the kinks consistently ironed out. Maverick had an inversion removed that only enthusiasts know about, but other than that it has the longest lines of any ride at the park on any given day.

There's no point in arguing which is "better"; that's too subjective. But what is different is clear.

I'm also guilty of bashing Intamin, but MF is hands down the best ride I have ever ridden in my life, with El Toro a very, very, very close second.

Let's also not forget that there are many other companies out there. I would only lean towards B & M b/c of the current Cedar Fair trend.

[HTCO]

Not trying to turn this thread into an Intamin vs B&M, but I will just say ... Intafail? No quality? So Milennium Force, Bizarro, Top Thrill Dragster, El Toro, I-305, Cheetah Hunt, Maverick, Formula Rossa, etc, yeah those coasters are garbage. That explains why there's never a line to ride them. Wonder how such a non quality producing company can do it for 35 years.

Thanks for the pics Oldiesmann.

The "line to ride them" is only there because they are down all the time...

That was a good one.

I wonder if the gate is broke down too at CP creating an illusion of all those people wanting to get in there to ride those crappy Intamins?

Because Intacraps are the only thing in the park?

But for real. Intamin's have fantastic layouts most of the time..

The reliability though... different story.

[TheCrypt]

Not trying to turn this thread into an Intamin vs B&M, but I will just say ... Intafail? No quality? So Milennium Force, Bizarro, Top Thrill Dragster, El Toro, I-305, Cheetah Hunt, Maverick, Formula Rossa, etc, yeah those coasters are garbage. That explains why there's never a line to ride them. Wonder how such a non quality producing company can do it for 35 years.

Thanks for the pics Oldiesmann.

The "line to ride them" is only there because they are down all the time...

That was a good one.

I wonder if the gate is broke down too at CP creating an illusion of all those people wanting to get in there to ride those crappy Intamins?

No one said anything about Intamin layouts being inferior to other coasters. All was said was their reliability, quite frankly, sucks.

[The Interpreter]

El Toro.

Millennium Force.

Eiffel Towers.

Bizarro at SFNE.

All VERY reliable rides.

Chang, a B&M, broke its chain on media day.

[Gabe]

Not to mention Diamondback broke a chain last year I believe and it was down for sev days. Even the best machines fail. After SOB, if KI is spending in the neighborhood of 25-30M for a new coaster, I'd make darn well sure to use a company whose coasters have lots of uptime and little downtime.

[TheCrypt]

Wasn't it Millennium Force which had a sensor go bad right before opening?

[Oldiesmann]

Not to mention Diamondback broke a chain last year I believe and it was down for sev days. Even the best machines fail. After SOB, if KI is spending in the neighborhood of 25-30M for a new coaster, I'd make darn well sure to use a company whose coasters have lots of uptime and little downtime.

I think you're confusing two different things.

Two seasons ago, Vortex's chain broke.

Last year, Diamondback was down due to some issues with the footers and the ground beneath the coaster that the park wanted to reinforce.

[medford]

correct, I doubt the footer issue was a B & M issue. It may have been a construction methods issue, could have just been a problem previously unforseen/unpredictable.

If I'm in charge, knowing that I just tore down a 200+ foot tall problem, as well as an indoor flat ride, I'd want something that had a history of reliablity as well as providing some excitement. Build a 325 foot giant, perhaps stretch it out long enough to reclaim the title of world's longest rollercoaster for the park, and you can spend the next 6 seasons focusing in on improving the family aspect of the park. adding mid size flats to Action Zone, adding to the water park, improving the kids area, etc...Then you've got a good track record on the reliability of a ride like outlaw run, you're far enough removed from SOB that a nice mid size woodie w/ inversions is a solid, reliable addition.

[RomanMaroney]

"Because Intacraps are the only thing in the park?"

Obviously Gatekeeper is a big draw to CP this year, but prior to that, i will go out on a limb and say MF, Maverick, TTD and Wicked Twister (Intamin) were by far a bigger draw than Mantis and Raptor (B&M). I have no study to back that up, but I am comfortable making that statement.

So, we're all in agreement that RCCA is not in charge of this project and making a comeback?

[TheCrypt]

^I've never met a person who's gone to Cedar Point just for Wicked Twister (recently, anyways).

I can't tell if you are toying with us, RomanMaroney, but RCCA has been out of business for awhile.

[RomanMaroney]

^I've never met a person who's gone to Cedar Point just for Wicked Twister (recently, anyways).

I can't tell if you are toying with us, RomanMaroney, but RCCA has been out of business for awhile.

Yeah that was a joke. I wasn't trying to get into an Intamin vs B&M debate, so i was just trying to lighten it up a bit.

I was under the impression RCCA wasn't actually out of business, they just haven't done anything in 10 years. As far a Wicked Twister, i was just naming the Intamin attractions at CP that are allegedly crap and fails.

[soundn8r]

I've never posted here before, but the last several posts have prompted me to make an account. I've been to Canada's Wonderland twice and both times Bohemoth was closed for the entire day. It was incredibly disappointing. I was looking forward to riding a B&M that has been reported to actually have some great airtime (I will admit I'm a big fan of Diamondback). I've been to Cedar Point once per year for the past 11 years and Millenium Force nor Maverick have ever been down when I've visited. Not once. So I suppose some of this perception of reliability is just a case of people complaining for the sake of complaining.

I've been to SDC to ride Outlaw Run this year over 20 times this spring (I'm doing some work in Branson) and the coaster is phenomenal... In fact, it pushed The Beast to my number 2 wooden coaster (yes, I like The Beast more than Voyage)...Outlaw Run is now my number 1 and anyone who hasn't ridden it should make the trip to Branson for that coaster alone. However, Outlaw Run has experienced significant downtime so far this season. It's normally down 3 or 4 times a day, but only for 30-40 minutes. To me, that's acceptable, because it's an unbelievable ride that is redefining wood coasters, and new technology will always take some time to get perfected. I'd much rather have a world class ride with some downtime until they get the new technology worked out than a coaster like Leviathan that is still cookie cutter enough to be just ok. King's Island isn't my home park, but it is still a park that I love very much, and in my opinion a terrain coaster similar to Cheetah Hunt would be a much better fit for the park than just about anything that B&M could offer up.

Gatekeeper will draw crowds to Cedar Point, for sure, but most enthusiasts are saying that the ride looks amazing but the actual ride is just so so. If I was making the calls, which I clearly am not, the new coaster would most certainly be an Intamin.

[shark6495]

We will not be getting a wing rider.

Did anyone see that guy just laying there at 0:12?

I like the guy posing in the background.

I like the idea of variety, too. It's okay to have mainstays, especially in the kids' park, but to have signature coasters in every park makes people want to travel to experience them.

Well wouldnt KI have a few rides that are signature coasters, that are not clones of other park's rides (Flight Deck, Beast, Racers, Adventure Express). Mainly due to how each ride uses the land around it to create a unique experience, as oppose to the Stunt Job Ride, Face Off (can never remember its new name), FoF where the rides dont incorporate the land around them and could be found anywehre.

I don't know if it's because I'm tired, but I honestly can't decipher what you are typing.

KI has many signature rides.

I was noting that perhaps only CP would get the wing rider, it would be a signature ride for CP. My point was all CF parks don't have to be exactly alike.

I think I read your statement as KI had no signature rides, so I was listing rides I would consider signature... no harm no foul. back to intamin vs BM

[dare-to-fly]

I wouldn't say that any of the Intamin roller coasters at Cedar Point are crap or fails. Some of them are just down more frequently than others.

My hope is that it is not an Intamin, as I don't like having the unnecessary OTSRs on all the coasters. B&M rides are almost all pretty much cookie cutter these days, and are getting to the point where there's not a whole lot of force to them (again back to the not taking risks part). So...my vote is for a Premier.

Oh, and by the way, Wild Eagle was down for quite a while today. It was the only ride I saw any downtime on during my visit to Dollywood. So much for the reliability theory. That ride is constantly down...though not as commonly as Mystery Mine.

[RomanMaroney]

Be careful soundn8r, simply suggesting there is a possibility Ki may not be using B&M for this may result in 2-3 pages of just trying to clarify that it is a possibility.

[TheCrypt]

Self edited to prevent a scathing response.

[Jayblazer]

I just got back from my first ever trip to Cedar Point and I was amazed at how much I loved every Intemin I rode. Now Ttd was down a lot but so was Gate keeper, because of wind. But I can say that I for one would LOVE an Intemin.

I had also been hoping that we would get another large wooden coaster, Mean Streak broke me of that..lol.

[FOFreak]

I leave for one day and this is what happens.. this is why we can't have nice things.

[RomanMaroney]

Self edited to prevent a blazing response.

Oh Crypt i wasn't going to respond to that. I am enjoying the discussion. You can feel free to respond to me anyway you'd like, and I won't take offense. You don't have to edit. I found this place because I wanted to discuss this new ride with people who know KI and I love KI. I didn't mean to cross any lines. I'm just staing my opinions and try to defend them if challenged. Perhaps you know more than I, but I am assuming we all know the same amount at this point. I think you may just take me the wrong way and that's ok.

Anywho, I will be a KI for the Brady thing this weekend, and hopefully the weather cooperates, and I'll get to see some significant progress. This construction is as big of an attraction to me as the already established rides.

[kblanken]

Wasn't it Millennium Force which had a sensor go bad right before opening?

I read something about that, I think they had someone hop a plane from Europe overnight with a replacement part.

//

Cedar Fair has mentioned something about having more family friendly rides, maybe they noticed at Kings Dominion more people were gawking at the race car in front of the ride than actually riding the Intiman-Intimidator. (At least when I was there). The B&M Carowintimidator is the quite the popular ride for all.