Factors that close rides

[TheCrypt]

Lol that's why today even with as short of lines while I was in station you stacked on db...

Also if safety is a priority...why did Firehawk have practically a safety every day for a month last season? A write up every day...

Sadly I don't get how you think my attitude doesn't promote safety...I was a Nazi about that stuff when I worked there...I downed rides due to stuff like that cause I'm not dispatching people if something is wrong or they're doing something..

minors don't need to be ride ops, the ride ops need to be taught efficiency and ridership increased..Diamondback can theoretically have four train op same with beast easily.

Last mini rant, spieling while I'm thinking about it...compare your Mic use to mine...epic fail on ki part...I hear more spieling on the way up the lift hill on beast than I do in the station...

You think if The Beast and Diamondback could run four trains they wouldn't already be doing it? Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

Stop comparing everything to Cedar Point. It doesn't score you any extra brownie points here and it doesn't give you leverage over other members. Quit pretending you're in the know.

[Coaster.Rider.Kings Island]

Riders safety is the number one priority in an amusment park. Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should.

[Oldiesmann]

Remember what I posted above about block locations. If Beast had 4 trains, a delay in the station would cause significant delays (one train in the station plus one on each section of the brake run, and the 4th train would have nowhere to go, resulting in it being stoppped on the 2nd hill...). In a perfect world where every train is dispatched at a constant interval, it might work, but in reality it wouldn't.

[The Interpreter]

And trains ain't cheap! Far from it.

[Hammbone]

I went to SFGAM this past weekend and suffered through one train operation on X-Flight and Superman. Beast is awesome with three!

If the coasters ran 4 or 5 trains that would hurt Fast Lane sales. Which I believe is why SFGAm was running several coasters below full capacity, to increase Flash Pass sales.

On a positive note I hit my 60th coaster, the classic Little Dipper!

[Oldiesmann]

I certainly hope no park would ever resort to reducing operations to increase sales of skip-the-line passes. I've suffered through 2-train operation on Vortex before and it's definitely not a fun experience.

[CedarPointer]

Try 1-train operation on nearly everything at Kings Dominion... everything was walk-on, but that's not an excuse.

[Creed Bratton]

Lol that's why today even with as short of lines while I was in station you stacked on db...

Also if safety is a priority...why did Firehawk have practically a safety every day for a month last season? A write up every day...

Sadly I don't get how you think my attitude doesn't promote safety...I was a Nazi about that stuff when I worked there...I downed rides due to stuff like that cause I'm not dispatching people if something is wrong or they're doing something..

minors don't need to be ride ops, the ride ops need to be taught efficiency and ridership increased..Diamondback can theoretically have four train op same with beast easily.

Last mini rant, spieling while I'm thinking about it...compare your Mic use to mine...epic fail on ki part...I hear more spieling on the way up the lift hill on beast than I do in the station...

I think you missed my point. When I worked on Diamondback doesn't mean that I currently work on Diamondback so I have no idea why I was the one to cause the trains to stack. I also have no idea why Firehawk had practically (not a guarantee) a safety every day for an entire month last season. I didn't work on Firehawk last season or at the park last season so I have no leverage on the reasons why.

Sadly I don't think you realize that until you earn your credibility here on KIC that people are going to question and try to figure out where you are coming from. How are we to know if you were a "nazi" when you worked at the park if you haven't even introduced yourself? What's your name? Where did you work? When? I'm pretty sure you didn't "down" rides, in fact you probably stacked the trains if you were on a roller coaster unless you were on Invertigo or Woodstock Express.

As for who the park hires, leave that to the park. If the park didn't think that minors couldn't handle it they wouldn't hire them to operate the rides. This has been the case for many years. And I'm sorry as a few others have pointed out, no Beast and Diamondback could not operate with more trains unless more blocks were added.

Diamondback has 6 blocks. A) Lift Hill, Mid-Course, C) Main Brake (After splashdown), D) Transfer Brake, E) Waiting Breaks and F) Station Brake. The blocks are set up so that if Blocks C is not clear, meaning blocks D and E are not clear, the train will not release from Block B. As long as the ride is in operation and the lift has been started the trains will automatically advance to the next block if it is open unless it is at Block E or F. To proceed to block A from block F, block A must be cleared. If block B is not clear with a train stopped in the Mid-course the train on block A (Lift Hill) will stop on the lift until block B is cleared (when the train has entered block C). To have a train proceed from block B to C, block C must be cleared (that would send it through Blocks D and E suggesting that a train is in block F)

Block A has to have block B open to proceed, Block B has to have block C open to proceed and block C has to have blocks D and E open to proceed. All the above is based on a 3 train operation by which the manufacturer and park had determined to be appropriate.

Thus making it impossible for another train to be added. The block system for The Beast is also very similar and hosts 6 blocks total.

Also, I can't compare my mic use to yours. If you would please submit us a sample of your work, that way I and other members here can compare my mic use from 3 years ago to yours currently (do you work at the park? If so it's not very wise to be posting as you are on here). You may be hearing more spieling on the way up the lift hill on The Beast than you do in the station because there are different factors. One being rotations, two being that the ride ops didn't know what to say, three the people on the train coming into the station were more enthusiastic about the ride than criticizing on how the operations of the ride went, four the ride ops may know someone on that train, five all of the other reasons.

[Browntggrr]

Try 1-train operation on nearly everything at Kings Dominion... everything was walk-on, but that's not an excuse.

Don't think so?

I have been on numerous coasters that had less than half-full trains. The experience was deteriorated to say the least.

[The Interpreter]

In days of olde, Cedar Point used to block off entire sections of trains, often the back several cars, on nonbusy days, which they seemed to have more of. I think back then, though crowds were larger, there were fewer riders, as there was much more for nonriders to do, and wider demographic groups came to the park in larger numbers, as opposed to primarily younger thrillseekers.

[Browntggrr]

^ Gemini & CCMR specifically come to mind.

Those trains had sandbags to add weight to the trains.

[AZ Kinda Guy]

The ride ops at CP are dicks. I always feel like I'm in the way when I'm there.

[Browntggrr]

Sadly I don't get how you think my attitude doesn't promote safety...I was a Nazi about that stuff when I worked there...I downed rides due to stuff like that cause I'm not dispatching people if something is wrong or they're doing something..

Just stating that safety is "a given" is poor attitude. Safety is never "a given".

I do find it interesting that it's the ride ops not busting their ass at KI, except when it comes down to you "downing" rides for safety issues. Unless you are on the platform the whole time any ride is open, there is no way to know why trains are stacking. Assuming it must be the ride ops not busting their ass is just trolling.

I do have to bring up Mantis at CP into the stacking discussion. Mantis has 3 trains, and used 3 trains for a handful of years. When it became obvious that trains would be stacked no matter the effort, the decision to only use two was made.

[kblanken]

In days of olde, Cedar Point used to block off entire sections of trains, often the back several cars,

They still do this, as recent as this year.

[Sonofbeast2.0]

A park closing, closes rides.

If the ride is lucky it will get moved and used at a new park ex. Firehawk.

[DontWantToWait42mar0]

Being too awesome - Son of Beast

[Jr for Birdy]

My experience with ride-ops at both parks is night and day. Kings Island's seem to have a far better attitude than CPs and I could give several examples but I will give two. I had my skin pinched really bad by a ride-op on Raptor and he was in such a hurry he didn't say sorry or nothing and just kept on his busy way, and yes he knew he hurt me pretty good! My last ride on DB it was a bit chilly out and my seat was soaked from a previous rider, I asked the ride-op if he had a towel or anything because I was wearing jeans and he immediately jumped in my seat and dried it off with his clothes! I'm sure that young man has a bright future and I know I will always remember him doing that for me (I was shocked and said thank you twice)! I know everyone has good and bad days but over all I love the way my family is treated by KI ride-ops.

[TTD-120-420]

If you guys think Kings Island stacks trains, prepare yourself before you ever come to Busch Gardens. The team at Griffon today stacked three trains almost every single time.

[The Interpreter]

And the most unbelievable stacking I've ever seen is on Gwazi at BGT. And you know what? I still have a glorious time every time I go to that spendid park.

[TTD-120-420]

I have not gone to the Tampa park, but I might take my 8 free tickets and go to Florida for a week during winter break.

[thedevariouseffect]

Sorry for my absence long workweek and then enjoying four days off base away from military life haha..time to respond

First in response...earning my credibility, OK understandable, whatever. Second in response I never worked kind...if you clearly read my signature block I worked at cp...also stated I believe in this page or a few others, and the rides I listed in this thread are all cp rides. I'll never work for ki, sorry haha. I'd go insane with everything that's out of whack. Plus I'm happy with the military now, no more amusement park seasonal work for me.

Also stacking for me only involved guest illness, weather, VIP, or special access, other than that my crew was really good at busting ass when I was assigned to coasters. Plus when working Maggie you really can't afford to stack. Corkscrew we could but like I said, good crews. Also downing the ride means things like say cameras, loose articles, guests being stupid and unbuckling their seatbelts, etc. I was big on that crap and its still a big deal to me.

As for Diamondback blocks, its ridiculous how the blocks are set up. If you have a train on the lift, as soon as it gets to top of lift area it enters next block. If train hasn't passed mid course brake it will stop st the top of lift as designed to prevent collision. So if train drops off, runs through the course, as soon as it clears mid course, dispatch should be enabled, and could actually be even earlier factoring in lift hill time. For instance corkscrew we could dispatch when it was halfway through the loop because by the time b was cleared its already a bit up the lift and hasn't hit the b entry prox yet. So the first train passes through the mid course, bang, dispatch. Train hits the end of the second block and stops at the safety brakes (what you call main brake). With this you have one train on lift/ running course, and one train in the station. The train before the station does not need to fully stop as those blocks are clear and can advance to the ready brakes (brakes before station). If you look at what I'm saying a fourth train is possible. However Diamondback already hits 1600pph and is one of the few close people pushers in the park in the same boat as beast and Vortex, ect. Dispatching at the end of the brake run as soon as it reaches the safeties is loosing time. As soon as mid course is clear or at a point on the track where you won't have to stop a lift because it'll approach b block and cause a b set it should be dispatched, but sadly is not the case.

Mic use, I know coaster bob has a video here somewhere I'll have to see if I grab the link after im done typing, however you can even hear him say "I could stand here all day and listen to this guy talk." Also looking on Pointbuzz...our crew was voted as right up there for crews and our/my mic use was heavily praised as the best that year. But no...Kings Island doesn't spiel like us...you never really have you never will.

Brief glimpse at spiel with one train op due to weather.

Few Pointbuzz people about our crew...I even posted there on the old account, wow..anyways I still say wind seeker, Gemini, or Millie were the best crews that year, but for once we were right up there with them. We went from worst to close to the top, and that's a feat

http://pointbuzz.com/Forums/Thread/26916.aspx?page=3

Unenthusiastic or not you still push the mic you still keep going. But no I know when you rotate and all that. I have many friends who work in the park currently so I know how operations work there..sadly they actually say practically the same thing as me regarding all of this. I asked my girlfriend if she would come on and vouch for all of this. She basically told me a good bit of ki ride ops don't like KICentral for various reasons, she works there right now so she doesn't want to loose her summer job, and honestly what I say should be good enough, it shouldn't have to be vouched, if you all can't see it its somewhat sad.

As for cp vs ki for ride ops courtesy...I will give it to ki, my main focus is to get you on and off as quickly and safely as possible and make sure you're having a good time...ki ride op training and policies are a great deal different...its def showing now that an ex paramount employee is now in charge of ride ops at cp now..my old ride is getting destroyed with her new policies. I agree we needed to be a bit nicer and better with the guests...but that's what sets us apart in terms of what were here to do...at cpwere there to move the people on the rides and be RIDE OPS whereas at ki you are there for the guests experience

Bringing in mantis...mantis would keep three trains if guests would cooperate and would not have been an issue. Having to constantly open and c,rose and recheck both seats and harnesses creates a lot of downtime on top of normal procedures. When we say stand up perfectly straight that doesn't mean slouch or sit on the seat, it means stand haha. Also I have been under the impression when opening there were three ops per side for load and unload, now there are only two so it increases time there as well..two train op allows interval to be hit better and maximize riders...

[The Interpreter]

Oh, I think you've said plenty.

Matt Ouimet is all about the guest experience.

Last I checked, Cedar Fair runs Kings Island. That company and B&M set up the blocks on Diamondback. I'm certain they know far more about what they did and why than a Cedar Point ride op.

[TheCrypt]

If you're here to appraise Cedar Point, you're on the wrong site.

[The Interpreter]

Not to mention Kings Island and Cedar Point are both owned by the same company. Paramount Parks is no more. There is no Paramount Parks way nowadays. Cedar Fair this year is different than last. That's a very good thing.

[thedevariouseffect]

I like Kings Island, yes I'll still love cp more just because that's my park and my rides...these are things that could shoot this park up big time though and help...

I agree matt is all about the guests,..that's why there's a big change coming through the Parks as I've stated...plus he loves Kings Island, I've seen it and I know it...he comes in and boom, several changes and new things, and honestly I kinda give him credit for sob demolition...all those years of leaving it there and playing with their thumbs...I honestly saw him as the one to say, alright, get rid of it, bad reputation, its been sbno for ages, let's get some new stuff going...

Also as a ride op I still see the day to day operations of my rides and work with people of several other rides and have a good picture at what's going on. This also allows for a good inside look at the parks operations standpoint.

Biggest reason I'd like to see more people moved quicker or interval hit better is plain and simple. Kings Island does not have very high capacity rides other than a few like diamond back, beast, Vortex, and I believe Adventure Express...everything else has low capacity...just improving a few things here and there and shaving off a few seconds can improve ridership. Two good examples showing the difference. At power tower this year the maint. department has been messing with the turbo drop primary tube charge a bit this season and it fills quicker and starts the drop sooner and ends the ride sooner..these few seconds mean every hour a few more dispatched can be sent which means more riders. Stuff like this is a great move for the park. However for my old ride changes this year by the new paramount lady are crazy..for instance now our one load has to only clear from the front and not the back always means after checking his whole train he must come back up to the front of the station to give his clear and he's the first clear in the order...so these few seconds hinder the ride, amongst other policies they started this year but those are for another time I need sleep for an early wakeup and long day on the base tomorrow...

If you start with low capacity rides, then add policies that hinder reaching theoretical capacity, the lines move even slower and the ride moves less people. When you help these rides work their best, you get closer to theoretical, and more people ride. Plus the quicker they're out of the wishes, the more rides they get, the better guest experience, the more money guests have the potential to spend in the park on other stuff which brings the company revenue and helps with future plans, expansion, ect which I'm all for...

I just want to see improvements to help...I'm not bashing to bash and drop down and say well y'all suck cp ftw screw ki...its constructive criticism...I just want to see the park get better at stuff, and this is one thing from my experience and knowledge I can see and know can be improved. Back in the day before Cedar Fair had ownership..it was either ki or Cedar Point. It was almost a battle as to which one to go and a decision had to be made, I don't see or hear that anymore. The park has great potential and has lot to work with and has a great track record and history thus far..all these improvements can mean a lot in terms of what guests get on a day at the park

[Creed Bratton]

, and honestly what I say should be good enough, it shouldn't have to be vouched, if you all can't see it its somewhat sad.

What are we supposed to be seeing? Because all I can tell by your posts is how you think Kings Island operations suck because they don't have 4 trains on the two major coasters, the ride ops don't spiel like you do and you believe Kings Island has far inferior operations when compared to Cedar Point.

Bringing in mantis...mantis would keep three trains if guests would cooperate and would not have been an issue. Having to constantly open and c,rose and recheck both seats and harnesses creates a lot of downtime on top of normal procedures

I'm sorry but you are really not helping your case here. You say that rides could have more trains if guests would cooperate, but because guests don't cooperate that creates an issue of downtime and eventually stacking. So wouldn't adding a train to the rides just keep the issues of guests not cooperating going thus not improving capacity/interval/stacking trains?

So to the Original Poster: What can cause the ride to close?

downing the ride means things like say cameras, loose articles, guests being stupid and unbuckling their seatbelts, etc. I was big on that crap and its still a big deal to me.

Someone who is big on the "crap" listed above.

[The Interpreter]

Back in the day, there were also two Six Flags choices in Ohio.

What is, is. And this thread is about factors that close rides. Not capacity differences between Cedar Point and Kings Island caused by operational methods.

[Creed Bratton]

I can't remember if anyone said this, I know I didn't but......Protein Spills!

I remember once in 2010 while working on Diamondback, we had a full train come back into the station, with someone who by sight you could tell was sick, upon further inspection, we saw that they got sick! We had to let the guests off the ride, two of our ride ops cleaned the train while I ran out to the main brakes where the middle train was. As I started talking to the guests, giving them an update of why they were stopped for a period of time, I headed from the front of the train toward the back. Once I was about halfway back, someone raised their hand and asked when they'd be getting off, they weren't feeling good. No sooner did I start walking toward them, they leaned over and gave the ride another protein spill. I let them know they'd be in the station shortly before heading back to the station. Once back in the station, I made my supervisor aware of the issue on that train. We started the cycle with an empty train leaving the station to dry off from the water, chemicals, etc. and brought the next train in. We repeated the same process as before. Thankfully, when I went out to the train on the main brake, no one protein spilled. We sent that train out and ran a 1 train op after that for at least 15-20 minutes to make sure the ride wouldn't pass any illness from the protein spills.

Either way, it was gross.

[The Interpreter]

When I was a boy, the train got washed out with water, and was immediately sent out again with riders. It's a wonder we all lived!

[Creed Bratton]

Water, sanitizer water (basically) and then sent out