LoadAndGo Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 23 minutes ago, shark6495 said: I do not disagree with your sentiment but do not allow past decisions to try and prognosticate the current. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I'm not looking for a pattern in past decisions. I'm looking at it from a business perspective. It seems that a lot of enthusiasts forget that decisions are made with ROI in mind. In the end, amusement parks are designed to make money. Building a $30 million coaster two or three years after building a ~$14 million coaster just doesn't make business sense. Furthermore, what is after a giga? If KI builds a giga in the near future, how do they follow it? Look at the GP's reaction to Mystic -- "why are they building a smaller coaster after building Banshee?" KI really doesn't need a giga, at this point anyway. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial79 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I'm wondering, what parts of the park that you consider are being neglected? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 50 minutes ago, LoadAndGo said: I'm not looking for a pattern in past decisions. I'm looking at it from a business perspective. It seems that a lot of enthusiasts forget that decisions are made with ROI in mind. In the end, amusement parks are designed to make money. Building a $30 million coaster two or three years after building a ~$14 million coaster just doesn't make business sense. Furthermore, what is after a giga? If KI builds a giga in the near future, how do they follow it? Look at the GP's reaction to Mystic -- "why are they building a smaller coaster after building Banshee?" KI really doesn't need a giga, at this point anyway. thats fair on the ROI but that logic would almost make it seem like KI should never build a giga because of whats next. KI will build what is needed to attract the guests they want to.... 31 minutes ago, Imperial79 said: I'm wondering, what parts of the park that you consider are being neglected? Theme on many rides (Adventure Express, for example) the not always working parts of Boo Blasters Paint on Racer Lights on Racer Parking Lot Food Service (in general) just to name a few off the top of my head 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial79 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 ^Agreed, that stuff does need work. Lights near the Grand Carousel also need fixed. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoadAndGo Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Imperial79 said: ^Agreed, that stuff does need work. Lights near the Grand Carousel also need fixed. It's a whole bunch of little things that collectively amount to a large issue. I would love to see KI take a year or two for general park improvements. I think that would improve the guest experience more than the addition of a giga, or any new ride for that matter. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial79 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 30 minutes ago, LoadAndGo said: It's a whole bunch of little things that collectively amount to a large issue. I would love to see KI take a year or two for general park improvements. I think that would improve the guest experience more than the addition of a giga, or any new ride for that matter. Hope this off year they are doing this. The food improvement part could be coming for 2018, with a new restaurant in Coney Mall, that hasn't been announced yet. I'm guessing it'll be an announcement of it on their website, sometime before the Spring opening day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creed Bratton Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 The question is...who sees that these things are the problem? The general public doesn't necessarily think "oh man, Racer needs painted," "I really wish these effects that were used to be here would work again," "man my Boo Blasters gun doesn't make the noise like it used to," etc. New rides do bring in more guests...guests from all over and even near. While I don't think the park needs a new coaster soon, there is a lack of flat rides that really need to help fill the park up. Remember when Banshee came in? Action Zone was literally transformed into a much better looking area. New rides can spruce up areas of the park. As far as the doesn't make business since to add new coaster so soon after one was installed....look at Cedar Point....they literally have done back to back years of coasters, 2 years between coasters and 3 years. Cedar Fair has been a very successful business so far, I don't think that if they were to install a coaster in 2019 at Kings Island it'd tank the budget and company. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 They may not notice little things such as a gun that doesn’t make sound but they probably do notice targets that don’t work or effects that don’t work, lights that are out, or peeling paint....Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivertown Rider Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I do agree with Chris that we need more flats. I think there are several areas of the park (i.e. Coney Mall but also Oktoberfest and X-base) where a flat or two would really improve the park. The great thing about some of the smaller flats like a Musik Express or a Tilt a Whirl or a Top Scan are that they wouldn't break the budget and they would still have money to do general park improvements. The problem I see for this year would be there will be some people who will say they don't need to go to KI this year because they don't have anything new. That's not going to stop any of us, but a small flat may entice somebody to come to the park because it is something new. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoadAndGo Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I think social media reviews tell the real story. If you take a look at Kentucky Kingdom's or Holiday World's Facebook reviews, you'll see a much more positive culture than on KI's. First off, KK and HW respond to every review and many comments. KI does not -- it's like the Wild West on there. If you visit all three parks, you'll find that the culture in person is just as guest centric as online. Kings Island, as much as I adore it, is not very good on the guest relations front. That lacking extends to the physical facilities as well. How many picnic tables and park benches have been there since the 1990s? When was the last time the KI Theater's roof was cleaned/replaced. For the love of God, when was the last time the parking lot was repainted or repaved? Guests may not specifically notice faded signage or mismatched pathway materials, but it all contributes to an overall run down and tired vibe that the park currently presents. I love KI as much as the next guy, but we'd be lying if we said KI's presentation was even on the same level as even CP's. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhyano Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 KI isn't run down what? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creed Bratton Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Social Media Reviews? How many of those are about things that could have been solved had they used the website? I literally saw a review the other day saying that they hated WinterFest because it cost too much, every activity cost extra to do, no one told us where anything was, etc. That person gave a 1 star review....yet, if they would have actually looked at the website to see how much it costs to get in, not every activity for WinterFest was an up charge, etc. They relied on someone to tell them where everything was when maps are available pretty much anywhere in the park. 1 star review could have been much higher if the person writing it did their research. I've seen a few low star reviews because people were ticked that they had to wait more than 15 minutes to ride Mystic Timbers opening weekend. Social Media reviews pretty much are so their thoughts can be validated and I truly question the intention. If Kings Island is as bad as they make it, KI wouldn't have the most season pass holders out of the chain. If KI was as bad as reviews say, there'd be a bigger uproar, the park wouldn't be as busy as it is during the season and it wouldn't be making a profit. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoadAndGo Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, chugh43 said: Social Media Reviews? How many of those are about things that could have been solved had they used the website? I literally saw a review the other day saying that they hated WinterFest because it cost too much, every activity cost extra to do, no one told us where anything was, etc. That person gave a 1 star review....yet, if they would have actually looked at the website to see how much it costs to get in, not every activity for WinterFest was an up charge, etc. They relied on someone to tell them where everything was when maps are available pretty much anywhere in the park. 1 star review could have been much higher if the person writing it did their research. I've seen a few low star reviews because people were ticked that they had to wait more than 15 minutes to ride Mystic Timbers opening weekend. Social Media reviews pretty much are so their thoughts can be validated and I truly question the intention. If Kings Island is as bad as they make it, KI wouldn't have the most season pass holders out of the chain. If KI was as bad as reviews say, there'd be a bigger uproar, the park wouldn't be as busy as it is during the season and it wouldn't be making a profit. Again, you're missing the point. It's the small details, the soft skills, the things that most people wouldn't notice. They sound insignificant individually, but are what make or break the guest experience when put together. It's the magic of the industry. Regardless of what you think about the GP, they are the ones who matter. They are the ones who buy the 400,000 gold passes every year. KI needs to do more to streamline the guest experience both operatically and from a developmental standpoint. KI needs to bring back is magic and charm. Cedar Point can be the roller coaster capital of the world, I want more for KI. I don't want my home park to simply be Cedar Point South. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creed Bratton Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Didn’t miss the point at all. I just pointed out that the faults of using Social Media Reviews as a basis of what the gp think of the park. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoadAndGo Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I wasn't using social media to gauge the GP's perception of the park. I was using it to point out the way KI is not as guest centric as it should be. Regardless, we have veered way of course. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 52 minutes ago, LoadAndGo said: I think social media reviews tell the real story. If you take a look at Kentucky Kingdom's or Holiday World's Facebook reviews, you'll see a much more positive culture than on KI's. First off, KK and HW respond to every review and many comments. KI does not -- it's like the Wild West on there. If you visit all three parks, you'll find that the culture in person is just as guest centric as online. Kings Island, as much as I adore it, is not very good on the guest relations front. That lacking extends to the physical facilities as well. How many picnic tables and park benches have been there since the 1990s? When was the last time the KI Theater's roof was cleaned/replaced. For the love of God, when was the last time the parking lot was repainted or repaved? Guests may not specifically notice faded signage or mismatched pathway materials, but it all contributes to an overall run down and tired vibe that the park currently presents. I love KI as much as the next guy, but we'd be lying if we said KI's presentation was even on the same level as even CP's. I put bad Social Media Reviews up there with those saying Vortex is sinking. HW and KK do a third the business KI does. Not in the same league. Why do we care about a roof if not leaking? People are there to have a good time, not to inspect roofs and picnic tables. I agree the parking lot could use some TLC. There are things KI can improve on, but to say it has a run down and tired vibe is quite an exageration. I think you have umreasonable expectations that can't and won't happen. Enjoy the park for what it is instead of always thinking what if, or why not this. Look back at 2007 when CF started its full season as owners and look at it today. I don't think you will find many here who don't appreciate the park in its current state. Let's get back on topic. If and when we get a Giga, what would be your color scheme choice? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoadAndGo Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, IndyGuy4KI said: I put bad Social Media Reviews up there with those saying Vortex is sinking. HW and KK do a third the business KI does. Not in the same league. Why do we care about a roof if not leaking? People are there to have a good time, not to inspect roofs and picnic tables. I agree the parking lot could use some TLC. There are things KI can improve on, but to say it has a run down and tired vibe is quite an exageration. I think you have umreasonable expectations that can't and won't happen. Enjoy the park for what it is instead of always thinking what if, or why not this. Look back at 2007 when CF started its full season as owners and look at it today. I don't think you will find many here who don't appreciate the park in its current state. I suppose you're simply okay with less. I grew up visiting Disney and Universal. While KI will never be in that league, there is no reason it can't be at the same level as a Busch Gardens park. I don't understand how you can't see that a poorly maintained roof, dated benches, or faded signs can negatively impact the guest experience. Simply because CF has done good things for the park doesn't mean they can do no wrong. Pointing out the park's flaws doesn't mean I hate the park or don't appreciate the progress. Quite the opposite, I want KI to be the best it possibly can. That's why I'm studying Arts Management with a focus on Theme Park Development. An amusement park shouldn't meet expectations, it should exceed the expectations you didn't even know you had. Back on topic, I would put the giga in the area between AE, FOF, and Racer. I saw a rendering someone made using Fury, I think. X-base would fill out the rest of the space with lockers, restrooms, a food location, and maybe a flat. As far as theme and color, military green track and military gray or tan supports. Edited January 2, 2018 by LoadAndGo Adding giga comment 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creed Bratton Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 That’s it, you are expecting experiences like Disney and Universal. Busch Garden parks are a competently different ball parks than KI. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoadAndGo Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, chugh43 said: That’s it, you are expecting experiences like Disney and Universal. Busch Garden parks are a competently different ball parks than KI. To be perfectly clear, I am not expecting Disney or Universal. I simply see no reason why the design philosophy cannot be applied to KI. Busch Garden parks are not very different. They reside in similar markets, contain similar ride systems, and are priced about the same. If Cedar Fair choose to do so, KI could look very similar to BGW. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 You are wanting all that from a park that sells a season pass for $120.00. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoadAndGo Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 On 1/2/2018 at 0:35 AM, IndyGuy4KI said: You are wanting all that from a park that sells a season pass for $120.00. A park that can somehow drop $30 million on a coaster, but supposedly can't afford some blacktop and paint? Ok makes sense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiamondBanshee Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 (Edit: this was a reply to a now deleted comment) ^As you mentioned, ROI is the top priority of the park. Would a $30 million giga coaster bring in more people or would a new layer of blacktop. While I agree it would be incredible to have a Busch Gardens experience at KI (I’ve never been to any Busch park but have been told it’s wonderful) it most likely will not happen. That would require a total rehauling of a park which has taken decades to come to what it is now. Could it be done though? Yes. Will it be done? Probably not. Cedar Fair is more about big thrills than scenery. Amusement parks, not theme parks is what CF is going for. I feel like the closest thing KI will get to Busch Gardens would be if CF takes it back to the days of old, classic KI. Looking at the park now compared to the paramount era it actually seems that is the direction CF is going. Instrumental music on international, a fairly well themed coaster with MT, Winterfest making a comeback, and even past attractions making a comeback, such as the new “flying eagles” and potentially (though obviously not confirmed) old time cars. CF obviously has a plan for KI considering that it has received multiple big attractions in recent years and that KI makes some of the most money in the chain. Though nobody truly knows what this plan is, I for one think they are building KI up to potentially be the new CP or at least a “Co-CP.” It’s obvious CP is limited on space. Though they are working with what they have, and are doing so incredibly well, it’s only a matter of time. Building a well established park into a world class theme park destination seems to be the way they are heading for KI and coasters are the best way to do so, especially for GP. That’s just my two cents on the matter. DB, going back into hibernation for the offseason. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 8 hours ago, LoadAndGo said: Back on topic, I would put the giga in the area between AE, FOF, and Racer. I saw a rendering someone made using Fury, I think. X-base would fill out the rest of the space with lockers, restrooms, a food location, and maybe a flat. As far as theme and color, military green track and military gray or tan supports. I like the idea of the military green and tan supports. I think that would work well in the X-base area. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xdog42 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Anybody have any ideas for names or themes? I mean if they do put The Giga in X-Base I would bet the name would have something to do with flying, etc. If I'm right FoF is themed to some Government/Military type testing, and obviously Firehawk a is a flying bird. Of course there have been some names out there like "Gigasaurs" but to be truly honest names like these sound lame and even "cheesy", It would be nice if KI at least puts a little thought into the name and idea like they did to Banshee or even the other CF Giga's Like Fury 325 or Leviathan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoadAndGo Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 42 minutes ago, Xdog42 said: Anybody have any ideas for names or themes? I mean if they do put The Giga in X-Base I would bet the name would have something to do with flying, etc. If I'm right FoF is themed to some Government/Military type testing, and obviously Firehawk a is a flying bird. Of course there have been some names out there like "Gigasaurs" but to be truly honest names like these sound lame and even "cheesy", It would be nice if KI at least puts a little thought into the name and idea like they did to Banshee or even the other CF Giga's Like Fury 325 or Leviathan. Firehawk is actually themed around an experimental fighter jet and the riders are the test pilots. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 If we go with a military color scheme @LoadAndGo mentioned and to incorporate FOF, maybe a Military base name for the giga? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmhornblessed Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 If we go with a military color scheme [mention=11176]LoadAndGo[/mention] mentioned and to incorporate FOF, maybe a Military base name for the giga? Or perhaps something from the history of aviation. That would tie in with the theme of x-base and also the Dayton Cincinnati region since it is the birth place of aviation. What about Patterson 345! Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoadAndGo Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 8 minutes ago, Cmhornblessed said: Or perhaps something from the history of aviation. That would tie in with the theme of x-base and also the Dayton Cincinnati region since it is the birth place of aviation. What about Patterson 345! Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk I think incorporating an allusion to Wright-Patterson is a creative idea. There are already stories about aliens at that base, so FOF would fit right in. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 While we are on the subject of names, I noticed @Cmhornblessed added the height # at the end. Who would be in favor of the height included in the name and who would not be? Tell us why! I would prefer it not be, but understand why it is done. The reason why is I would want something original! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoadAndGo Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, IndyGuy4KI said: While we are on the subject of names, I noticed @Cmhornblessed added the height # at the end. Who would be in favor of the height included in the name and who would not be? Tell us why! I would prefer it not be, but understand why it is done. The reason why is I would something original! I'm generally against putting ride statistics in the name. It seems too obvious of a marketing ploy for my taste. I prefer the name to invoke an emotion or allude to the larger story. I feel like the ride height cheapens the coaster in a way. However, if we are sticking with the military theme, I think the height could be added in a creative way. Most military equipment has numbers and letters in the name. F-35, AK-47, etc. I'm sure this convention could be used to slip the height in there without it feeling too forced. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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