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Its getting a massive cleaning up by Mr. Ryan so its hidden ATM.

Hey all, new to KI Central but certainly not to watching and anticipating as coasters take shape from dirt & footings year after year. The 2014 project has definitely caught my notice. I'd have to concede that B&M is my favorite maker with Diamondback, Nitro, Behemoth and Leviathan all appearing on my top 10, though I also love Cedar Point's Intamin collection with Maverick being my favorite there. Having ridden a B&M giga and hyper in close succession I'd definitely say they offer a contrasting enough experience to warrant the installation of both at one park. This is due to the different train types as well a different focus in each layout even amid similar elements. I loved Leviathan and found it to be the best first drop I'd ever experienced but ultimately Behemoth's longer ride and ample airtime win out. That being said, I may agree with the consensus that an invert seems likely at this point, and if I were a betting man I'd bet the farm on B&M - especially with the diamond-shaped footer inserts matching up so well to what has been seen on recent B&Ms. Add to that Cedar Fair's relationship with B&M in recent years (have we seen anyone else for a large-scale steel coaster project since I305?) and the writing is certainly on the wall. Could it be Intamin? Anything is possible, but I'd rather see what B&M can do with a 2nd giga or a large invert in 2014. Not to say a blitz coaster ala Maverick wouldn't be greatness, but that seems highly unlikely, as does anything from Intamin or frankly any other company. Speaking of I305, I derped together a little aerial comparison shot after thinking on Silver2005's post...he makes the point that not enough land has been cleared for a giga, and at this point I'm inclined to agree but I think collectively the size of the current project area is being underestimated. Also, I305's footprint is more modest than it would seem. I used google maps at (supposedly) the same scale, but I think I305 is still a bit smaller than it should be. Even scaling it up 10-20% wouldn't give it a larger footprint than SoB by much, if at all.

We all hit one or two meatballs into foul territory in our lifetimes, even if our intentions are good. I once accidentally gave away the location of a nuclear weapons convoy over two-way radio (there was a car accident along the route and, in a panic after watching three small children ejected through the front windshield, I gave the exact location in the clear --instead of using special code language as was required). By all rights, I should have spent the next 6 years busting rocks at Ft. Leavenworth, KS. Instead, amid all of the vitriolic calls for my 21-year-old tuchas on a silver platter with relish, one level-headed captain made a decision to forgive, and to tell others to take a deep breath and examine all aspects of the case for what it really was worth. I learned a lesson; moved on and was much, much more careful. Forgiveness is a very powerful thing.

You know... Fabio got hit with a bird when riding Apollo's Chariot... a Hyper.... by B&M... ;-) And there were a lot of screaming females around him...

Hey everyone -- It always baffles me when I have to make posts like this because I assume that the vast majority of you are smarter than what I'm about to address, but none the less... Under no condition are you to enter the park illegally - whether you have "hot info" about any kind of delivery that may be coming there over the next few months... Unfortunately, I have to address because it has already happened. Being banned from the park, being arrested, and all sorts of bad things may happen to you if you choose to do this. It's simply not worth it. Also, those who choose to break park policy - and we hear about it - will be removed from the forums and will not be welcome at future events. On that same token, don't ever EVER enter the construction area. For the love of God. Not only is that stupid, but it's dangerous! By all means: peek through the cracks in the fence, check it out from the Tower, ride Drop Tower (no photos, please) but don't ever ever ever illegally enter the construction site. That is all.

Bottom line, in my opinion anyways, which isn't worth much in a court of law, much less an internet message forum: the person who did whatever they did wrong has no one to blame but themselves, regardless of what they may or may not have read on this site. End of story. HTCO saying "get down here ASAP, you really want to see this" (paraphasing) then continueing to post in a manner of "I know something you don't know" is the essance of trolling. He may or may not know anything specific, but his actions reeked of someone trying to whoop up attention (and since some say he works at the park, perhaps he works in PR and is simply trying to attract attention to the park, though in that regard, one could take note from Don & terp who say a lot without really saying anything) They are two seperate issues. The first one I have problems with, and am glad the police or KI management dealt with it and let it be known that it won't be tolerated. The 2nd doesn't really bother me. Like many, I was excited to find out what may have been there, but I wasn't about to drive over in the middle of the night, I lost no sleep over the issue, I didn't get up any earlier than usual to check out the forums, I didn't swing by the parking lot on the way to work, etc... it didn't change my day, however the next time HTCO wants to claim something big is going on, or claim to be sharing a bit of previously unknown/posted information on this project or anyother, I'm going to take with a big ol' grain of salt, he's essentially been "downgraded" in my eyes, nothing more nothing less. I take this site for what it is, an outlet to share information on KI. Sometimes it provides great entertainment, sometimes it provides great insight, sometimes those 2 lap over each other, and sometimes there's a big ol heap of dog piles. Its up to the individual to figure out what is what. What is insightful to me, may well be common knowledge to others. What entertains me, may bore others. Some thrive on the dog piles of the world, others prefer a nice diversion. I doubt the park wants to shut down this site anytime soon. 1st, another one would pop up somewhere else, 2nd its a great additional PR firm for the park. There is a good reason Don mentions the site frequently in his tweets; he knows that by getting people to come here is another recruiting tool to draw more visits to the park. Not everyone is into facebook or twiter, this site allows another outlet. Out of site is truely out of mind, KICentral keeps the park in the sites of many, and therefor is another tool to help drive profits at the park with little or no cost to the park itself.

Number of bolts has everything to do with stress on the base of the support, not what manufacturer it is. Round vs Rectangular vs square footings is a moot argument too... manufacturers use many variety of shapes for their footings. The only clue found with footers often lies in the cut-outs on the tops. Intamin and B&M use different "insert" shapes at the base of their supports. B&M requires a diamond/oval shape cut-out at the tops of their footings. The footings being poured for 2014 have diamond-shaped/oval cut outs. As far as the "limited space", the park is still open. And if the coaster will extend over the midways or other attractions - footings will likely not be poured until daily operations end. This project is not necessarily limited to the space that is currently cleared. Provided the coaster is a B&M, the dis-concerting issue is the fact that the Batavia plant does not have supports or track stored outside. However, with a later announce, one could suspect the construction of track and supports isn't pressing. Also, if the plant is finishing up a previously contracted job for another park - KI's track and supports may be next up.

Apparently you crossed a line if a mod deleted your post.

sounds like my boss.....

Perspective There is an illusion that the entire site thinks the exact same way about one member's post. In the last two weeks, 240 active members either visited or posted on KIC. As of this post, there have been only 74 comments posted to this thread, many by the same few members. This is only one subject out of an astronomical combination of possible things about which to discuss our beloved park. If it gets too hot in this proverbial kitchen, heck, go over to the family room and talk about The Beast, WindSeeker, Timberwolf, PotatoWorks... don't just run out the front door into the cold; we're kinda family here.

It certainly would be that person's fault. Entirely, though? I think not. Many of us share blame for the attitude that may have contributed to today's unfortunate event. Luckily, we all can help fix it. Perhaps we need to cool down the hysteria a bit. We certainly don't want to contribute to someone's bad decision because we're worked up about some new construction activity. More explicitly, we need to communicate respect for the law and park rules at all times. In this specific example, if a member is suggesting that someone visit the park to take pictures of construction, we need to be explicitly clear that we're not suggesting any trespassing or rule violation. As recent events have reminded us all, safety is the priority in this industry. If "enthusiasts" are compromising that in any way, parks would be smart to have nothing at all to do with them.

My problem with HTCO isn't the original posts and trolling. It's after all of this happened, having his posts deleted and everything else, his first words on the subject were to insult people. Since then he has taken no responsibility whatsover for his actions. He has just got more defensive and mad. A simple "oops, not what I meant guys, my bad" would have gone a long way to soothing the general mood of the board. Instead he went with "Just shows how idiotic and crazy some of you are..". It shows no respect for the board or the people on it.

Just know that, whoever you are who trespassed, if the relationship between this site and park sours due to this event, it will have been entirely your fault. Every member on here would despise you, and you'd have to live in guilt knowing what you did was irresponsible and stupid. I hope that KIC continues to be a great site and that it will continue to have a solid relationship with the park, but I truly would be saddened and upset if this one persons ruined things for all of us.

Simply put, follow the rules of the park and don't be a embarrassment to everyone involved in the enthusiast community. This is truly disappointing.

No, they don't. Fanboys do! And I'm sure that the people at KI understand that any idiot can start an account in these forums and that their actions are their own. Holding every person with a KIC account responsible for the actions of a rogue individual is as illogical as calling every KI employee a thief because a dishonest employee at a food stand was caught slipping a few dollars from the register into his or her pocket.

The old one is coming back. The admins said it was being cleaned up and will be brought back when that is done.

Guys, when I first got an account on KIC it wasn't this bad at all. Now it's falling apart. Let's just chill about this construction and act like family again. Please stop the madness!

Wanna see some construction? Here you go:

Fixed for you :-) All kidding aside, a wise man once told me that me that you're on the road to wisdom when you realize that your opinion is just that, another opinion. It's a lot like music - everyone has specific tastes and not one size fits all. If I'm at a park riding something I'm not going to take a look at a poll to see if and how much I should like it. If I think a ride is good that's really all that matters. Ultimately the only opinion that counts is my own since I'm the only one benefitting from the experience. Case in point - I was out at Knotts early in 2011 and got a chance to ride Silver Bullet. I was expecting a "forceless" invert like some enthusiasts were claiming but the reality I found was quite the opposite. I enjoyed the ride immensely and have it ranked in the top half of my invert list (I've ridden all the custom B&M inverts in the country (except Flight Deck in CA) and 5 Batman clones). Sometimes you just have to form opinions for yourself.

Just shows how idiotic and crazy some of you are.. I post one little thing and literally everyone poops themselves...

No announcement doesn't mean that harm hasn't been done. The fact that Ryan was made aware of misbehaving member(s) speaks volumes. People who consider themselves "enthusiasts" should set an example for other park guests. Others may be ignorant or indifferent of park rules, but "we" should know better. The sad fact is that, perhaps unfairly, these actions have reflected badly on all of us. Thus, we all need to be committed to ensuring that nothing like this ever happens again.

I still love you guys.

I'd like to throw in my 2 cents (or 2 dollars worth due to the length of this post) for trying to decode this thing and put some sense back into this topic. Okay, first of all, lets not forget what this ride is replacing. A ride as big as Son of Beast coming down with the following it had (hence the sale of the SOB parts) might call for a coaster of a similar stature, and given the fact they started pretty early is an indication that this will be pretty big, which to me, rules out an Intamin Blitz or anything of that nature. Also, Kings Island needs another line chewer. I'd like to pull out physical evidence at the park for this and not go by Don's Twitter speils or anything else of that nature (including the signs on the fence, owls and scarecrows) and no looking at silly things like footers shapes or bolt patterns (all steel coaster manufactures share those things with each other in one way or another). So we have footers in a big square shaped pattern on the ground, which indicate a likely spot for a train shed. The train shed, at least how I see it, is that rectangle consisting of footers in a pattern 4 across by 3 wide. The 4 footers which outline a similar size square to the shed's would probably be the transfer track area. Next to that are what most people see in the paired footers lined up next to them. The reason I bring that up is this would be the section with the final brakes. I would like to compare those with Diamondback's for a moment. Diamondback has alternating single and double footers. This one has all double footers at the specific final brake area (and likely station) which to me, looks like it'll be for the A-frames of an inverted coaster. I'll give some people the benefit of the doubt there as the land might be where it needs double footers for track with the train above the track, I.E. a standard sit down coaster, which given what this is replacing, give the impression of a giga coaster. I don't get anyone thinking there will be the turn right next to Delirium with the lift right next to Sling Shot. The footers don't indicate a lift of any kind, and the fact there isn't a room for a lift anyhow there (yes, I'm saying lift, I don't think this won't be a launch coaster). The lift would end up going extremely close to Sling Shot and over Adventure Express' entrance or out into the Oktoberfest lake at that angle, which you couldn't put a first drop from a giga or an inverted coaster there (or for any type for that matter). I'm fairly certain the station will be in the gap between Adventure Express and Flight Deck, whereas it'll have a final turn or something coming behind Delirium. The lift would go out behind Adventure Express or somewhere into the area where Son of Beast used to be (there could be a turn before the lift, Leviathan has a turn between the station and the lift, too). Heck, with the station that high up, they could pull a Hydra and put a pre-lift inversion there. Also, to the giga speculators, I have to ask you at this point; where is the clearing outside the Son of Beast area? They've only been working in the old Son of Beast spot. Do you guys realize how much room a 300+ ft lift and drop takes, even if its a curved drop, not to mention the rest of the layout? Go take a look at any giga coaster and see the distance from the base of the lift to the bottom of the first drop, including on steeper hills like I-305 and Millennium Force. You'd have to have the bottom of the first drop WAY at the end of the old Rose Bowl section, and from there, it'd probably have to go behind X-base or behind Flight Deck (I'm not sure how much land the park owns between FD and GWL). Even a compact course like that of I-305 would take a HUGE amount of room, probably surpassing SOB's old footprint. That's just after the first drop. Giga's also average around a mile or more of track spread out over a pretty large area to burn off that speed (90+ mph). You'd probably need track all the way out by Dinosaurs Alive to accommodate such a monster. Right now, there's no extra clearing around the perimeter of SOB's old grounds. I'm seeing it that the project will be substantially smaller than what most people are expecting, at least not to the scale of a giga coaster. With an inverted coaster, you can get creative with inversions as turn-arounds that use less space than that huge hammerhead on Leviathan or the massive overbank on Millennium Force. Cobra rolls and immelmans take up much less room, plus if you want any evidence of a large compact inverted coaster from B&M, look at Pyrenees. 147 ft tall, 6 inversions, over 4,000 ft of track in a pretty tight space. I know there are other manufactures, but frankly, I look at their current products and most of them don't have things that meet something that would fit Kings Island at the current moment. I get the feeling Kings Island wants to stay away from prototypes given the trouble they've caused the park in the past. Some have new stuff that could work, like Intamin's and Vekoma's new 4 across seating, Mack starting to build bigger with new train designs, Mauer Sohne has some neat spin off's of their X-car, but most of that stuff either hasn't been tried or hasn't been used a lot, which Cedar Fair generally stays away from. Gerstlauer doesn't come to mind as most of their designs are more compact than what we're seeing at Kings Island. But even something as big as Takabisha @ Fuji Q wouldn't have the capacity Kings Island is looking for. Premier has made a comeback recently with the likes of Sky Rocket, Superman and Full Throttle, but with my thoughts that this won't be a launch coaster (Premier's bread and butter right now), I don't see them either. S&S is ruled out as aside from launch coasters and 4D's (which they layout doesn't indicate, most are clones of X2) they're really small (Steel Hawg at Indiana Beach for example) and again, are newer designs. Zamperla or Pinfari- no, just no. That leaves B&M and Intamin, which the only Intmain I see is a giga (though they do have a full circuit inverted design, but only 3 have been built, a looper like Thorpe's Colossus would be too redundant IMO with Vortex doing its thing) and with my thoughts on the lack of clearing, I'm ruling it out. With that said, I don't see this as a prototype coaster in any way, shape, or form. So let's narrow down B&M types. I'll rule out flyer and sit down looper since Kings Island has both. Stand ups are a REALLY dead type, so that's out. I'm going to trust in Ouimet's words in his interview on Gatekeeper's opening day and rule out wing coaster. I'm not convinced with the lack of clearing so I'm ruling out giga. That leaves inverted, floorless and dive coasters. I'm ruling out dive coaster as the footers in the area behind Sling Shot looks too compact for a 8-10 wide car to maneuver through, plus the elevation changes concern me as dive coasters run out of momentum quick, so I tend not to lean on dive coaster. I think floorless is a different enough experience from Vortex to work. Being exposed like that above the track compared to Vortex's tight confines would be a pretty unique experience. Kings Island is also one of the only park's of its size without a full circuit inverted coaster (which I'm surprised KI didn't end up with a Vekoma SLC instead of Invertigo), which I keep that option open as well.

Disco2000 is right, and I hope the clues don't stop either. As a probation officer I see a lot of trespassing cases, most are committed by teenagers, homeless, and criminals. I assure you the judge will not take it easier on you if curiosity is your motive. With all that being said, Don 99% of enthusiasts are not dumb enough to enter the construction sight, or dumb enough to visit after hours. 100% of us want this riddle to continue.

^^ I'm not seeing a difference!

Whether a teaser, a red herring, or actually talking about some guest, he just described what a Banshee could possibly look like.

Maybe don is drunk tweeting.

They already are taking it that way.

Much of their audience won't understand that as a Project 2014 teaser and will seem like KI is making fun of a park guest. Great.

Forceful rides are a lot of fun. Maverick is easily in my top 5 because of how forceful it is. "Forceless" rides can be fun as well. I think smooth is a better term to describe them. I would throw Diamondback into that category. That ride is also easily in my top 5. B&M inverts like Silver Bullet (probably top 10 for me) are smooth, fun rides that aren't as forceful as maverick but are anything but forceless. I really like SB and it is forceful enough to not be re-rideable for a few hours. While a giga like I305 would admittedly be my first choice for KI, an invert will be just as exciting. Just to throw this in, IMO Millennium Forceless was a huge letdown to me when I rode it. Diamondback beats that ride any day. I've ridden it several time and have never failed to feel disappointed.

Good lord I've been reading on this site since 2009 and never seen such an uproar on the KIC community! I think this whole new ride stuff is making people go crazy on here! Is it really to much to ask for us all to get along?! If you disagree with something someone said say so but in a nice manner or say nothing at all! Theirs been times I've seen people post stuff I may not like or disagree on but I don't blow a gasket. And no i'm not saying i'm perfect. No one is... Anyone doing something as stupid as breaking in a park or construction zone deserves and a ban from all CF parks and possible fine/jail time.

Can't believe how much crap is going on just because of a new roller coaster. I think we all need to take a chill pill and just wait for things to happen. No reason to trespass. Things will come if we wait.

Why can't people just follow simple rules? Sigh.

For some reason.....That made me laugh! Thanks for the morning humor Don! ....But....On a side note to Don....Please don't let decrepit park guests ride the rides.... Just send them to the Kings Island Theatre instead!

Of course it matters; all rides exert force on the rider, from boo blasters up to flying ace arial chase, over to congo falls, back to The Racers and all the way thru The Beast. Some hardly exert any force (if you were blindfolded, would you notice you were moving on boo blasters?), some exert a lot of variety in forces, from shoving you right or left, pushing you down into your seat or making you feel like you're going to get thrown out. Different forces have different effects, I could ride Diamondback all day, get me 1 cycle on the scrambler and I may well toss my cookies. The key to an amusement park of KI's size is to provide a wide variety of forces (ie thrills) that can appeal to a wide variety of guests while recognizing that not every thrill is tied directly into the track. turn The Beast into a steel coaster and place it in the middle of the park with no tunnels and ridership would be low, however run it thru the woods, give it a handful of tunnels, a couple of lift hills and you've got a legend. Forces matter, they most definently matter however a park must be careful, make a ride too forceful in one regard or another and you risk the ride tearing itself apart, possibly injuring guests or at a minimum limiting ridership to a small amount of people.

While it was a bonehead move on HTCO's part, members shouldn't be jumping all over him. I seriously doubt he expected anyone to take it so literally and enter unauthorized areas.

Wow, I can't believe this needed to be posted. I'm very new to this site, and I'm very addicted to this site. I really hope it wasn't a member, or even a guest of this site. The game that's being played between Don Helbig and KIC members should be comical and enjoyable. I truly hope if it is indeed a member it doesn't ruin the relationship between the site and the park. Stay classy, it's not hard to follow the rules. Ps. To the idiot that couldn't follow simple instructions: Congratulations my 4yr old child is smarter than you.

It is absolutely inappropriate what has occured. Enthusiast or not, someone broke a law, and to be quite honest, even if it's someone on these forums, I hope they get punished. IMO, every action needs a corresponding and equivalent reaction, whether it be positive or negative.

That looks photoshopped. I wonder what gave that away?

Rode Vortex last Friday, tried out 5-1, and it was the best ride I've got from it in a long time. I personally hope it's there for years to come.