Shaggy

Speaking of Kill Mart/the old Skeeball building. Out of curiosity, does KI still have Skeeball in any of the arcades? Its been at least 20 years since I've even been in one of the arcades at KI. It was a HUGE deal (once upon a time) at KI. You used have to wait in line to play sometimes. Side note - if they were ever to bring back a Fascintation Parlor, I'd never want to leave. For old schoolers, such as me, that game was more fun than I can even describe. There's VERY few left... but is, by far, my favorite "game" that I ever played at a park. Also, most parks have eliminated shooting galleries - which also used to draw a crowd. I've never understood why those sorts of things disappeared from KI - technology I guess - but they were very "activity and amusement" driven games that always drew people...and their money.

Tangent - There is an old 1800's cemetery on my Maternal Grandparents farmland. Many/most graves in that portion of the south were covered with concrete or stone slabs. I once asked "why?" as a kid and was told it was to keep the coffins/bodies from raising out of the ground if it got too saturated. (Its very close to the ocean, so the water table is high.) As a kid, whenever me and my cousins would play outside, we were warned by our family to "stay away out of respect for the people lying there." That combined with the vivid childhood thought of seeing a casket raising out of the ground always made me scared of cemeteries in general. Knowing there were bodies of people that had been laying there for 100+ years didn't help any. However, I always thought to myself... why is it still there? No one every visits those graves, or knows who the people are. (My cousins and I used to fight over who had to go retrieve any baseballs that accidentally landed in the cemetery.) Here's a google shot of my Grandparents former house and the cemetery behind it. Their house is the one at the top of the pic, and the graves are in the triangular shaped area in the center. BTW - the cemetery is still maintained by a local church. As time passed, I'm no longer timid of cemeteries, but I still wonder what will become of them 100, 200 years from now. I mean, with so many records and recorded histories, they don't really serve a purpose as a historical marker anymore - unless its a famous person. I visited Savannah, GA about 10 years ago and during a tour there we were told that many of the streets in Savannah were paved over portions of graveyards/cemeteries there.

Because of the outrageous scalping issues they've faced, Disney has now instituted MerchPass on ShopDisney.com. The stores must now adhere to a "lottery" system when exclusives are released at retail. Ticketmaster has done the same with Verified fan and virtual queing. I have a very distinct opinion on this subject, since I've spent the past 25 years in an industry that fights scalping everyday. But, frankly, this board is already waaaaay to full of people's opinions, and virtually Every.Single.Thread becomes a disagreement or argument anymore. I will say, KI did a really good thing. And those of us that got a souvenir are lucky to have one. Most parks would have never given it a second thought. KI knew just how much Vortex meant to its fans... that's why the first track that was removed prior to demolition was the section ultimately used for these keepsakes. I also have heard that there's more to come as far as preservation of a piece of Vortex track. I applaud them for understanding Vortex's place in the park's history, preserving a part of it, and putting a little bit of that history in the hands of those that will cherish it.

I remember park Reps spoke at an ACE event during the Paramount years and revealed they were restricted from displaying certain moving images on the (then) new sign. For instance, they could not show ride footage and/or commercials. The issue was raised based on the concerns that local authorities (I assume ODOT) had with it affecting traffic flow. I would assume that still plays into what they show, and the time each image spends on the screen.

I’m hearing they sold out but are taking orders...

While I definitely think KI deserves the title "night ride capital of the world", there are some challengers. Ever ride Phoenix at Knoebels in the pitch dark? Or Raven at HW? Or Iron Rattler at SFFT? Or Ghostrider at Knotts? Wooo weee those are insane after sunset.

I remember it distinctly. At (then) Paramounts Kings Island it was called “Boat Tag.” It was actually there for the ‘93, ‘94 and ‘95 seasons. It was located where Linus’ Launcher currently is. There was a fence that separated Rivertown from (then) HB Land/Nick Splat City. It sat on the opposite side of the fence from Scrappy’s Slide right next to the restrooms. I never “rode” (it was actually considered a game) but watched it quite a bit. Fun fact: The balls would often get stuck in the chain link fence that enclosed it. I have a picture of it, I’ll try to dig it up.

Flying Eagles from Carowinds back to Coney Mall. Casino at DelGrossos back to Rivertown at KI. Antique cars from Magic Springs and Worlds of Fun back to KI. Flying Dutchman from KK back to Octoberfest. Spinovator from Canadas Wonderland to Octoberfest.

Most don't know/remember that there were spray misters inside the arbor. They weren't always on, but on hot days they often had at least 2 going. It was the first park I ever saw with them. As a result, the pavement often stayed wet inside of it. Kings Dominion followed suit and later installed 2, around the time they added Diamond Falls, to the sign entrance to the Congo area.

The yellow lines in this picture demonstrate approximately the general area where the covered archway once was. You can still easily make out the old path area.

I did - many times. Before, and while, the plaque was there. We simply waited at the plaque (or prior to its installation, at a designated gathering spot, usually around the gift shop) and then a park rep (most often someone in Guest Services or occasionally PR/Marketing) would walk us back to The Beast prior to the rope drop. Prior to her retirement, Ruth Voss did oversaw the walkback most often. She's the one that invented it, of course, waaaaay back in/around 1980. After she passed away, some ACE members actually referred to it as "The Ruth walkback" and would all reminisce about her. Sometimes, we'd arrive at The Beast before morning tests were done by crew, so they'd hold us at the ramp that leads up to the station. Sometimes they'd hold you until after the National Anthem played (I think...) When the ride ops gave the thumbs up, ACE members rode. Sometimes we'd get 1 ride, others 2 or 3... it just depended on the timing. It was always amusing to see the faces of all the teens/kids that raced back to Beast after the rope drop.... only to find they were NOT the first there. "How'd they get there so fast?" Here's a picture I took of a few of my closest park friends (Reids and "Sparky"), while waiting for the walkback. FYI - I found this to be one of the absolute best ways to get to meet other "enthusiasts." There are countless people I know today because I met them while waiting "At the ACE plaque." I really miss it for that reason. CF did away with it, attributing it to the Platinum Pass early rides. Its really a shame they made that decision... it was always a testament to the strong relationship KI & ACE used to have. Also, I met a great deal of ACE members when I was on The Beast crew and worked open shift. Obviously we'd have to get there A LOT earlier than the other ride crews, but it was always a fun start to the day. FYI - the plaque still exists to this day... but no longer on International Street ;-)

"They?" I can only speak for myself, but I have been fortunate enough to have ridden the following Stand-Up coasters in my life: King Cobra (Kings Island), Shockwave (Kings Dominion), Skyrider (Canadas Wonderland), Chang (Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom), Georgia Scorcher (Six Flags over Georgia), Iron Wolf (Six Flags Great America), Riddler's Revenge (Six Flags Magic Mountain), Mantis (Cedar Point), Vortex (Carowinds), and Batman the Escape (Astroworld.) Of course opinions about coasters is subjective. But out of those, King Cobra and Skyrider easily held my top spots. Chang probably held my #3 position, Scorcher probably 4th. I've personally never found the B&M's to be that re-ridable. They amount to a one-and-done for me. Shockwave fell somewhere in the middle of the list, and my least favorites were easily Riddler's Revenge, Iron Wolf and Batman the Escape (dead last.) As Don already said, the 3 Togos all differed. King Cobra had, IMO, the best air and inversion of the 3. Its one flaw was the "jolt" you felt when dropping to the right into the helix. Skyrider was a VERY close second - and was extremely similar to KC. Shockwave was not even on par with the others because the last half of its layout was jarring and not engineered as well IMO. It was the most different of the 3 by far. B&M's are chock full of inversions, so I guess if someone loves a lot of those then they may be their preference. But the vast amount of inversions is what, IMO, makes them uncomfortable. B&M excels at placing the riders heart at the center of gravity, but on the standups they are dealing with an elongated body - so that made forces harder on legs and head. I think of it like a cheerleader twirling a baton... the center is not feeling nearly the forces that the ends do. Often when I have ridden a B&M standup, either my legs/feet go numb or my head gets banged around. (Riddler is notorious for giving me a headache.) The horse collars on B&M's are ridiculously confining to the point they are claustrophobic. I never felt nearly as closed in on the Togos. Also, unless you ride in the front row, your sight is obstructed by the seats in front of you. The Togos seats offered more visibility, allowing you to anticipate what was coming next. I can also speak, to some degree, about operation. I have worked as a ride op on both KC and Chang. I found KC was easier to get guests in and out of, and found there to be less overall complaining when the ride ended. There was a reason the Chang ride crew called it "BANG." I can also attest, there were FAR more complaints on Chang from male guests remarking about the strain on their groins. From an aesthetic standpoint, the B&Ms are far prettier than the Togo's were. The Togos looked and felt like a machine, where the B&M's have a much more graceful visual appeal. So in that realm, B&M's have the aesthetic edge in my book. For posterity, I'm not a Cincinnatian (although I lived there for 5 years 25 years ago) and I personally think LaRosas pizza is bad, UDF and Graeters ice cream is outstanding, and Skyline Chili IS the best. ;-)

Kyle is doing great stuff! Love his historical documentation.

And I didnt say you did - I was agreeing with you. :-) SFAW wasn't supported in any way... that was my point... so SF took the easy way out by thinking selling it would be lucrative... it wasn't.

Canada's Wonderland is a faaaar cry from Astroworld. SF had basically stopped significant investments in Astroworld prior to its closure. I believe in the final 5 years it was open - Diablo Falls (raft flume) and SWAT (S&S Skyswatter) were the only things added - and they were both installed in 2003 in necessity after the park removed The Tornado. The park had fallen into general disrepair and neglect. The area of Houston in which it resided had declined in overall prosperity, avg income and frankly - safety. The park wasn't closed necessarily because the land became more valuable - it closed because it just wasn't seeing growth in attendance and profit margins. Couple that with the fact that they were in litigation with the Texas Giants over parking issues. (At AW, you parked near the Astrodome - then walked over a long causeway that stretched over the interstate before getting to the main gate.) It had a bad reputation by the time it was demolished. I believe the land did sit vacant and undeveloped for years. I attended AW a couple of times in those final years. It wasn't even on par with SFKK at the time. The rides were antiquated, and the park unkempt. I personally didn't feel completely safe there... there were gangs of teens ruling the park, graffiti on some walls and I could smell pot the entire time I was there. One time, I saw a young teen girl and older teen boy copulating right out in the open on a picnic table - they made no bones about it. The first time I went to Wonderland - there was literally nothing around it. It was all vacant land. Now, you cant throw a rock without hitting a condo. However, Wonderland likely has the largest metropolitan draw of any of the CF parks. Its also a HUGE economic boost to both nearby Toronto as well as Vaughan itself. The fact that CF has invested so heavily in CW is proof that the park is there to stay. Oh - someone mentioned XLR-8... well here is a pic I took of it the last time I was at SF Astroworld (August 2003.) I first went around 2001... and I had been looking forward to riding XLR-8 for years - then when I finally did... waaah waaah... it was slower and duller than Iron Dragon if you can imagine that!

For those of you that may be looking for a nice way to safely display your KI pin collection... here's what I came up with. I'm sharing because it may be a good solution for others out there, and was a fun and very easy project. Hobby Lobby sells display/shadow boxes. I purchased a few that measure roughly 21" x 17" x 2". These do not open at the front, nor are they hinged. (The back comes off like any picture frame would.) The back panel is covered with black velvet cushioned by a layer of foam. They retail for $49.99, but I waited until they went on sale for 50% off. (In addition, if you'd rather not wait for the sale, Hobby Lobby offers a 40% off single item coupons online.) I also purchased some dressmaker pins with black ball tips to them to blend in with the background. I found the background foam/velvet pulled away rather easily, so I carefully pulled it off the back panel. I then used Gorilla Glue spray adhesive to better attach the velvet to the back panel. I then simply spaced my KI pins as I wanted them, and secured them in place by angling the black-tipped dressmaker pins through the display hole on each package into the velvet/foam background. (I personally prefer to not open my pins from the cellophane.) I then carefully placed the back panel with the pins secured into the frame while it was standing vertically. This took me less than 30 minutes combined to complete. Below is one of my displays. I had so many pins and buttons that I filled 3 of them. I purchased 4 of the displays so I have one for future purchases.

That I don't know. I was just told by a park rep (at the time) that the park had spec'd the land for an impulse. I'd assume it was a separate install since Superman at SFO was installed in 2000 and lasted until 2006. This would have been in the early '00s that I was told. I don't have any tangible proof, just the spoken word of an Exec. So any "source" hounds out there can just keep quiet. ;-) Its worth noting that KK was basically a lamentable mess during those SF years... inside and out. It was definitely one of the "stepchildren" of the SF parks (another example being Six Flags Astroworld that was treated precisely the same way.) There were a couple glimmers of hope - like when Melinda Ashcraft, the GM of SFOG, transferred there. She had just begun making strides... and had much better plans for the park. But very quickly she was promoted to GM of Six Flags Fiesta Texas (I believe) and then, ultimately became the President of Six Flags Over Georgia. In the short time she was at SFKK, she met with me (I was the regional rep for ACE for a short period of that time) and revealed some really good things she was pushing for at the park. After she left, the plans just went away. The park then just got jostled around, bad leadership constantly shuffled, park operations suffered, organization suffered etc etc etc. Instead of fixing rides, they literally walled them off, or SF sent them elsewhere. Crime ran rampant in the park, They never warranted new, noteworthy attractions - and any strides to draw attention literally turned into disasters. (When they received the "new" shuttle loop - Greezed Lightning - from SFAW, they couldn't even get it running. Yet knowing this, they still invited media and enthusiasts to a grand opening preview for it. When everyone, including news cameras, arrived at the park they simply announced it wasn't operating and said everyone could ride the Drop Tower instead and go home. Some had driven hours to attend the event. It was mind boggling - they literally managed to create an even bigger PR disaster for an old, used ride - a clunker they were already challenged to promote.) The infamous accident on the Superman Tower of Power, years later, exposed how disfunctional the park was on many levels. That was the final nail. Its hard for many to imagine, but prior to the Premier buyout, KK was a force to be reckoned with... and it was actually giving other regional parks a bit of concern. In just the course of a decade Hart added ride after ride, coaster after coaster. That turned out to be a move to sell off the park - which he did. And thus began the parks long descent into madness.

The tallest rides at KK were in direct correlation to each other due to the height variance. You could, at one time, essentially, draw a straight line from Hellevator to the Giant Wheel to the top of Chang's lift when looking at the park from an overhead view. Here's an approximate mock up using the current Google Earth view... Of note - there was once an Intamin Impulse coaster proposed for SFKK. It was to take part of the land used by Tin Lizzies and run along the road. Its tallest spike was supposed to fall in line with the other tall rides there. The park ultimately installed Greezed Lightning from SFAW instead.

No Johnny Quest afaik - but Moby Dick showed up in this form...

As I understand... The "Moby Dick" ride was just a concept idea that never went farther than these drawings. Bushman started the concept work for Kings Island around early 1969 - and he based a lot of his concept work off of HB properties at the time. He was also doing concept work for other potential "Hanna Barbera" stand-alone parks as well. FYI, I believe Bushman was hired by Taft - not Coney Island persay - so his work *might* have started well before the Coney merger. "Moby Dick and Mighty Mightor" was a very short lived cartoon made by HB in 1967. It was not popular at all. I don't know of any other "work" done using this theme other than these drawings. I do seem to recall the original EV having a "nod" to Moby on the side of building - a large "flat" of the character that went along with all the others on the building. There was a lot of other HB stuff that never left the drawing board. Ironically, at the time, Scooby Doo was a new fledgling property for HB - so it was used semi-sparingly in the theming (other than things like the coaster name and Shaggy and Scooby figures in EV.) Ironically, it became HB's most noteworthy title and that's apparent in the number of rides that eventually got added to the area and themed to SD. FYI - when Paramount "re-did" Hanna Barbera Land, the new entry sign to the area was meant as a "nod" to the early Bushman concept. I believe a Hanna-Barbera park was eventually opened by KECO in Texas in the early 1980's. It did not use the Bushman concepts, and only lasted around 4 or 5 seasons. It used a lot of the same "elements" that were included in the KI 1982 HB Land remodel as well as the themed area at Canada's Wonderland. Frankly, out of all the parks that I visited that had a HB themed area (I went to KI, KD, Carowinds and Wonderland) - Wonderland probably made the best use of the overall HB theme and I felt it was closer to what Bushman had in mind. But remember - Bushman was used to conceptualizing Disney attractions - and used to having deep pockets and vast resources to dive into. Wheras Coney and Taft, were not as "unlimited" when it came to budgetary constraints.

I'm ready to volunteer to get on top of the awning over the Diamondback storage bay, as well as The Beast's final brake run, to sweep off all those hair/wrist bands. I mean, what the heck is that about? Why is it a thing? And why on earth have they been there for years and years? Its like the "gum trees" that used to be in lines. There's no purpose and its unpleasant to look at. At least with the low crowds this season, it will take the GP longer to come up with some way of ruining something in the Orion Queue.

These are the best merchandise items sold at the park these days.

I couldn't agree more. For those of us fortunate enough to experience those years in the early-to-mid 1980's, its really impossible to describe the "vibe" at the park. I've never experienced it anywhere else, in the same way. It really stood in a league all its own on many levels. I wish I had the perfect word to describe it, but never find one that explains it. The Bat was a jaw dropper. At the time, it was like something from another world. I remember there were always people lining the perimeter fence to watch it. One of the amazing things about it was that it really wasn't that tall - but it came very close to the ground.

LOL - your eyes are very good... and yes, I have quite a few Ghosts from Disney... ;-)

To this very day the trains on the original "The Bat" remain the most incredible trains I've ever seen on a coaster. I was just 9 years old when it opened, and I can remember being mesmerized by how it looked. I stood for hours and watched those trains swirl around those turns. They were absolute works of art.