brenthodge

like dressing the “wave maker” and the lookout into more of an industrial “factory” look or lumber mill. I thought even if they dressed it to reference the Peter’s factory over on the river, it would bring some local lore to the ride and would necessitate making it “pretty”, just more logical why there is a big machine in the middle of the woods at the edge of the river.

I wish they would actually repair the physical structure of the final lift. Major sections of “rock” are missing, and as much as I love physical effects, they could do wonders with some relatively inexpensive projection mapping in the final (and actually all) tunnels that would be easier to maintain. The fist two tunnels need at least a little light to see what’s going on in them.

It was pretty bad last Saturday. I’d say this one will be the same or worse.

I totally dig this idea. It would be such a logical flow.

They are there.

Oh i agree. The asphalt was terrible. Just miss the lamps and how it truly gave it a street feel.

That overhead shot once again makes me question the paver design of the redo last year. I know actual curbs will never come back, but the Pavers could’ve been used to recreate this look instead of the “trees in the middle of a skinny road” they came up with. Also don’t understand why the lampposts weren’t returned.

Right, that’s why I was asking the price. Sorry my wording was confusing. 13.99 -14.99 sounds about right.

Anyone know how much if not on dining plan?

So there’s been this thing called a pandemic???? It kinda hurt their numbers a bit this year and they might be scaling back on big spending.

I agree to both actually. I think the goal would be better designed scare zones that can play both roles. I think pumpkin eater is a good example. During the day it reads as a pumpkin display but at night transforms. The Pirate ship could be the same if they moved it more where the Viking Fury is - during the day it could be "friendly pirates" that transition at night. Revolving panels, doors that flip open etc could be used for all of these to make more family friendly during the day. I think they've already moved more to that by eliminating some of the dismembered bodies and gore junk just thrown around.

That’s assuming they did have limited time to plan. This may have been in the works fir a while and they just held off on marketing it until they knew the status of haunt and even their ability to do this event. I don’t think it was only planned as it was announced. also, we have no idea what may have been I. Store for Winterfest food-wise, and while I am bummed it isn’t happening, I think a watered down event wouldn’t do justice to that brand. I fear December’s outlook is very hard to guess right now with schools returning, flu hitting and people moving more indoors. But I do hope next years Winterfest is a blow out!!

Can you explain further? I’m not sure I get the correlation.

This is why franchise agreements with national brands are bad. I’m sure they have to let auntie Anna and Cinnabon be the only game in the park.

Isn't that basically what I said? And DisneyLAND does rely on APs a lot more than WDW. Many think to the detriment of the park. They have upped the cost and added the restrictions over the past year (not that those matter as much now, but...) but they still provide a source of lower, steady income. Sorry if I didn't phrase my initial statement well. I wasn't implying APs don't add to the bottom line, its just as you said at a longer term level. Thats why Im glad they are looking for a mixed portfolio of ways to bring guests back again.

Totally agree, and they do make money off of them, but not the same way as the “immediate positive cash flow” as the gate purchasers. We AP guests are like a slow drip IV of cash (why the push the payment plan so much) and the family of 4 that buys tickets for a day, eats 2 meals in the park, snacks, games and souvenirs is like the jolt of caffeine. You couldn’t survive well with just one or the other, but for APs to feel like they should “call the shots” is silly. The park is (I feel) developing a well-balanced approach to driving repeat visits, increasing in-park spending, and maximizing Capitol investments that are impressive to the general public.

Right. Pass holders are a valuable customer segment , but have to realize they often COST more than they MAKE. It’s a balancing act keeping them happy, returning and SPENDING but also not having them flood the park, inflate crowds and create a bad guest experience (read “I’m not spending any more money HERE”) for people paying hate admission.

Ok. It’s been a tradition for a few years. You act like the flame throwers have been there for decades. That being said, I like the idea of them. I just think the are poorly executed. Random trusses with pipes and propane tanks look bad in the day. Maybe if the flame fountains were in big urns or something it would look less tacky. I still think it was a miss when they “redid” I street that they didn’t do a major upgrade to show systems that allowed for buried propane and chiller lines so it looked tidier during the day for events like haunt and WF. Also I don’t see them toning down HAUNT during haunt, just being smarter and more resourceful using the decor and making it look better and be more family friendly during the day to drive broader attendance. I think a family of 4 during the day May be a more lucrative demographic to them than a couple of teenagers till 1 am going through mazes. It’s about driving dollars. Sounds like they achieved their purpose then. HAUNT is all about jumps and scares, not about relaxing spots to sit and meditate.

I think with Winterfest along with the new Tricks and Treats festival we can see the direction and emphasis the company is placing on special event to drive return visits instead of simply relying on large investments each year. Love that it brings new depth to the park.

Interesting seeing this come together. It’s starting to make sense why they’ve been consistently going a different direction with haunt decor these past few years (no massive grave keeper set right at the entry, much less gore in the decor, scare zones like pumpkin eater that do double duty as “fall decor” during the day. I think they’ve been heading toward a more family friendly feel for a while. I think HAUNT will return, but if this is successful, I could see it returning as well. (The amount of effort in this leads me to believe it was in the works regardless and not just a “corona stop gap” I’d love to see more of this and even some easy ride overlays like on Adventure Express and such to start supplementing the mazes (and maybe fewer, better ones of those).

I’d definitely bring back “plight” or something similar to somewhere in Rivertown. Maybe even move Santa to a different location and use that space as a small indoor theatre for the show. Santa could move over to Kill Mart shell and do a 1950s department store Santa land to tie into Tinsel Town. The horse cartridge loading area could move back further to WindSeeker area. I also like the idea of a small “blue grass Christmas” act in the Gazebo. In Rivertown or put them on the porch and have Jingle Jazz at the train station.

I should have titled the thread differently. Yes, dreams, but more along the line of realistic ideas that the ark could and would actually implement based on budget, resources and time. Dream away, but it would be neat to see what other realistic plans others could add to mine.

Right. MY Winterfest dream based on realistic things that “could” actually happen because it was mostly rearranging existing assets. Maybe the thread should be renamed?!

While I don’t think dusk to dawn is realistic, I do think Saturday and Sunday hours could be extended to open at 12 or 2pm. The holiday trim was designed with a lot of detail that would hold up without the lights being seen. Even if shows didn’t start till 5, I think they would cover the additional expense with increased guest spending.

I was cleaning through some files on the computer today and found my "If I could plan Winterfest 2020" notes. Since we know WF aint happening this year, I figured this was the best year to do it "my way" I tried to really be smart with all of the existing assets and just move things around a bit to make clearer stories and use the things they have in stronger ways. Its a lot of detail - spoke forgive me if its too long, but since we only get to dream this year - thought I share mine! Love to know people's thoughts WINTERFEST ASSET REALLOCATION ENTRY - No major changes INTERNATIONAL STREET - No major changes - ARCTIC WAY (Walkway to Action Zone in front of theatre) CHARACTERS - Snowflake Fairy, Ice Queen and Prince All of the snowfall lights/ blue lights from the walkway between Rivertown and Coney move here. Blue/ white uplighting, Lots of character interaction Menorah and Dreidel stained glass decor Main theatre show becomes “White Christmas Dreams” a show with live orchestra, vocalists and dancers that tells the story of a family that experiences the magic of Christmas one winter’s eve. Arctic Way ties International Street into IceZone ICE ZONE - No major changes (Action Zone) CHARACTER - Jack Frost Ice Zone gets silver trusses with uplighting - maybe lots of LED snowflakes - modern and bright - all the spiral trees form Coney move here Music/Light show from Child Care house moves to this area in blues and whites AREA - ENCHANTED ELF VILLAGE (Octoberfest lake) CHARACTERS All elves Brass band becomes Elf Brass band Tinkers remains in Festhaus All elf set pieces move to the areas around the lake with better lighting to really enhance FLORAL CLOCK - acts as major entrance feature for new Candy Cane Lane/Drum Line area Gets great lighting package. AREA - DRUM LINE CHARACTERS Nutcracker Suite Move trumpeters to the walkway leading to drummers with the MERRY CHRISTMAS sign and large gifts, toys etc Four Drummer Drumming moves to stage on Skyline seating pavilion Add uplighting to trees and possible 2-3 footers for lighting rigs to better light the soldier statues Area brightly lit AREA - CANDY CANE LANE CHARACTERS Candy Cane, Candy Dandy, Cotton Candy Fairy Moves to the path to River Town past floral clock Add large LED tree in red/white with light show on the old base where tree was WF’17 Add paved paths in this area (in the grass) to tree and to paved area for candy castle - these could be seating areas and landscaping during normal season and paths through cemetery for Haunt Footings from Winterfest Way WF’17 hold candy cane scaffolding with red/white overhead string lights Line main path and new paths with candy cane markers Kona Ice drink place becomes hot chocolate/candy “gingerbread House” food location TUNNEL OF LIGHTS - From WF19 where path straightens out leads into… AREA - HOMESPUN HOLIDAYS (Rivertown) Move all of the crafter booths to this area to play up the “homespun” theme. Improve look of crafter barns to make look like different style buildings in Rivertown Use The Beast plaza for more crafter shops More rustic decor Remainder of Rivertown as previous years AREA - Coca-Cola POLAR BEAR WAY (Path along former Vortex site) Red and white string lights overhead Coca-Cola billboards line the path (like a road to Tinsel Town) Plaza at Backlot becomes the Polar Bear Dance Party Basketball 3 point game gets Coca-Cola Holiday enhancement Transition area in to Tinsel Town brighter and bolder AREA - TINSEL TOWN (End of Coney Mall) No major changes - move giant silver trees to center of the round courtyard at the entrance between Coney Mall AREA - CONEY CARNIVAL CHRISTMAS (Coney Mall) No major changes - add overhead color change LED lights from HAUNT Make even gaudier, bolder, brighter - move the giant light sculptures from the path to River Town here More Silver Tinsel - almost an extension of Tinsel Town AREA - CHARLIE BROWN’S CHRISTMASTOWN (Planet Snoopy) Move the live performance aspect out of the petting zoo - Keep “Sounds of the Nativity” with lighting and music, but maybe Peanuts Narration and sings form the Christmas special instead. “What the Dickens” moves out to new area (keeps the indoor area for inclement weather) International Showplace adds better roof - possible temporary back and sides and heaters “Charlie Browns Christmas Spectacular” moves here with minor modifications. The two side stages of this performance space already work for this show. This brings all of the Peanuts entertainment to one area to create stronger destination AREA - DICKENS SQUARE (where 4 drummer drumming was) CHARACTERS Scrooge, Marley, Ghosts Makes sense tying into International Street Use Scrooge’s house set from 05 WF as background for “What The Dickens” - Can move to Peanuts Showcase during inclement weather Use some graveyard items to make Scrooges cemetary Add some “Old England” set pieces Bring this “Christmas Carol” theme to Boo Blasters AREA - OH HOLY NIGHT (Tower Gardens) Live performers from “Sounds of Nativity” move here - create stage area where Ginger Bread castle went when this was Candy Cane Lane Use existing footers to add light trusses to provide projected “light through stained glass windows” All stained glass nativity pieces move here - maybe not all on one big area, but in smaller clusters that are dim, but light up brighter when songs related to those characters are sung (shepherds, angels, wisemen etc) Twinkling lights in the trees for “stars” - Large star above (Star in the East) Benches provide seating for contemplation