Kenban

Well its a little late making a comment now seeing as how the item is already sold but here goes. It sounds like a real ticket except its one that is going to no longer be valid. First someone asked about the fine print "Present for entry during the park's public operating season for the same park season as when the card was purchased." If he just so happened to purchase it after the park closed for the year then its valid for one day the next year. Later someone asks if the ticket would be valid this year and the guy says yes. The funny part comes when someone asks when the ticket was purchased and he says 2003 although he does say he called the 1-800 number and claims they say its still valid. Since the ticket was purchased in 2003 assuming it was purchased after closing for the year it would only be valid through 2004. I would not risk it and hope the park takes it or hope the seller will give you your money back months later.

I know I am well aware of that fact. I was just pointing out how pointless this poll was. What I was trying to do was bring some attention to the points in the post but I guess I went a little overboard.

I keep seeing posts saying six flags, Cedar Fair, and I have even heard Universal are going to purchase PKI. ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Six Flags is broke and has OVER 2 billion in long term debt. There is no way Six Flags could afford to purchase a park for YEARS. Cedar Fair would not purchase the entire chain which is what Paramount would want. You do NOT sell a single park let alone the park with the highest attendance in the chain. If and thats a big IF Paramount sells the parks it will be the entire division for sale and Cedar Fair would never do that. Go back to when Cedar Fair purchased Six Flags Ohio. Part of what makes Cedar Fair such a stable company is how slow they expand. This leaves us with Universal which is trying to SELL its parks and get OUT of the theme park business it is NOT looking for more parks.

Although there is something to be said for buying a full price ticket this year. I had read something about full price tickets purchased at the gate are good for two days this year. Also they do not have to be consecutive days. I see where you can order the tickets online for 44.99 but I am pretty sure you can do it at the gate as well the only requirement I believe is you can not use a discount. Heres the info from ordering tickets online. Ages 7-59. Valid any two, non-consecutive days the park is open to the public from April - October, 2005. Ticket must be used by the same person on both visits. Price 44.99 Best deal your going to find if there is a chance you are going to come back this year.

Its not owned by Paramount. If you go to the Bonfante Gardens website it only says Managed by Paramount Parks. If you want some more info on the deal check out this press release I found. Sounds like its just a 5 year deal for them to run the park.

I think the ride will have more staying power then some people think it will. I think comparing it to the TRTR preshow is a bad example. First other then a well done queue the preshow is not very well done. You get the light on the door before it slides open (which is always pointed a little low). Then you have the video (which I don't remember being good the first time I saw it and now I just ignore it). But once you get on the ride the theming around you adds a nice touch. There is no preshow to IJST all the effects are done on the ride. Also the Disney ToT comparison is also flawed. The ride was always designed with drop changes in mind. Before the ride opened they had 33 different drops programmed and they picked one to run when the ride opened. The only changes have been some minor show changes and the biggest change was the drop sequence updates. But even thats just a software upgrade not a real update to the ride. Most of the rides at Disney do undergo times when the ride is shut down sometimes for months but normally its just minor changes. Splash mountain in California just upgraded to new boats (which turns out are too heavy and it looks like they have to shutdown the ride again ). Space Mountain (Disneyland again) is also undergoing upgrades right now and has been closed for I think its 2 years now (Ok this is major). Disney world on the other hand just finished redoing Its a small world. But if you notice all of these rides are older rides that have been operating for years. These are not the only rides that have been changed either but almost everything that has been done to these rides over the years is minor except in a few cases (Space Mountain). Often its just to bring effects up to a higher standard of quality (Haunted Mansion).

I was there tonight. Actually ended up riding it 3 times. I can already see the lines are going to be VERY bad on this ride. Was only running 2 trains and a third would have helped but I don't think it will be enough on a busy day. Now the ride itself. I love the trains the doors are a really nice touch. I am not a huge fan of the massive LIM fins on the sides of the trains though it really destroys the looks of the train but I understand why they did it. It was cool to see working headlights and taillights on the cars. The fire effect was nice but there was no flames on the right side of the track. The tunnel after the helicopter scene is amazing. The whole thing is full of fog and I loved sitting in the last car seeing the headlights and taillights in the fog. This is another ride you just have to ride it in the dark. The lights on the cop cars, the fire effects, the trains lights etc it all really stands out at night. No sirens, no fishtail that I could tell at least, no stair effects. Although the first time I rode the ride around 6:30 I felt the seat shaking a little at the start. But I did not notice the effect the other two times I rode it. If you can't tell I enjoyed the ride I heard several comments on it being the best ride in the park and heard a few about people who wanted to ride it over again. I missed the rollback but I could see it happening I understand it has occurred on Flight of Fear before.

This is from another post I made in the Addams Family Reunion Coaster or Soundwave? thread but I think I made a good point then so here goes The current rumor for the upgrades to Space Mountain at Disneyland in California point to during the day it will be Space Mountain. Then at night it will turn into Rockit Mountain where you would have a ride similar to what the Soundwave idea is. Just for your info if you go and look at a picture of the new Space Mountain sign from California if you look at the sign closely you can see where there are lights to form Rockit on the sign which shows they at least designed the sign for the idea. Still no word if this is still going happen or not though. I really think that the same idea could be used at PKI. Install speakers and lights in the drum. Then do some work in the queue area to add a DJ and more lights. During the day the ride would be the same as it is now but maybe around 5 in the afternoon the ride changes over to Soundwave.

Lets see it says MAXIMUM CAPACITY on the CP site. Those figures almost always assume you are not loading people. Just relocking the restraints. It says the ride is 2 minutes 30 seconds. Which is the same as PKI's even if the load goes quicker (which most of the time is due to guests not the employees although the load could go quicker) do not expect a much higher riders per an hour. Note PKI's site just says hourly capacity it does not say its the max capacity based on the fact the ride is the same length any riders per an hour difference would be from employees and guests. I don't actually think the ride has higher footers I think the ride is programmed to go slightly faster(like I said I think Delirium is 68 MPH while it says Maxair is 70 although read my note at the end which brings this point into question) which based on how the ride works (The design is to emulate a standard pendulum the idea is to minimize the work the motors have to do) would equal out a 3 foot height difference on max swing. I would be surprised if you can honestly say you could feel the difference. NOTE: I did try to search for the speed on the Internet the only thing I came up with was 78 MPH (found one site that lists 76) for Delirium which actually would make it faster (Which I found odd based on the whole design for the ride emulating a pendulum the speeds should almost be the same). I noticed Maxair is 84' feet tall but I did not find a height for Delirium. Anyone know the max swing is in degrees for maxair? Delirium hits a max of 120 degrees if its higher for maxair that would also explain the differance. One last point you could also redesign the ring the riders sit in to produce a slightly higher swing (its not actually going higher just the edge of the ring is farther out). In the end though I don't think its worth the argument I almost think it would be better arguing which ones paint job looks better since they are basically the same ride.

As I remember it George Lucas also owns part of the rights and he only allows Disney to do rides based on his movies.

About the whole Meijer sign thing. The reason is actually pretty simple they sell PKI tickets and season passes. In addition to that Meijer puts up signs in the stores advertising PKI. I remember a 10 foot tall stand up last summer at my local Meijer with little plastic cards you could take to a checkout to purchase a PKI season pass. Also listen to the PKI ads at the end they say you can purchase tickets at PKI.com the park or your local Meijer store (I might be a little off on the wording). I have also seen Meijer ads that say you can purchase park tickets at the store. Its just a simple case of two companies advertising for each other. I suspect Meijer makes very little if anything off the ticket sales the whole idea is to drive customers into the stores and to advertise the stores. Also I am pretty sure the park had an official lawn care company before Paramount purchased the park. Disney already has a McDonalds (actually more then one). For a few Disney examples in Epcot alone we have the GM Test Track, the Exxon world of energy, and of course the AT&T technology area. Normally other then sticking the name in front of the ride name or sticking presented by X the name stays the same. Really it does not bother me too much because I know it enables the park to have a higher revenue. The more money the park makes the more that will be spent on the park. Companies paying part of the bill for a ride can make it so a ride instead of being a 10 million dollar ride could be a 15 million dollar ride. Or maybe the park can spend the money from a sponsorship in other areas like adding a new flat ride.

The current rumor for the upgrades to Space Mountain at Disneyland in California point to during the day it will be Space Mountain. Then at night it will turn into Rockit Mountain where you would have a ride similar to what the Soundwave idea is. I really think that the same idea could be used at PKI. Install speakers and lights in the drum. Then do some work in the queue area to add a DJ and more lights. During the day the ride would be the same as it is now but maybe around 5 in the afternoon the ride changes over to Soundwave.

Sounds right to me. Remember regular parking is $9 you pay an extra six bucks to be closer to the gate.

You know Winterfest is starting more and more to feel like one of those secrets that no one can keep. At this point I would be more surprised if it does not happen then if it did. I just wonder what they plan on doing since they have so few indoor rides. That bit about general admission tickets being good for two days sounds odd but a good deal if you want to only go twice.

You can tell the picture would have to be from before 1982. Both sides of The Racer are facing forwards and you can see the skyway running. (when did that get taken out anyways?)

John Miller if I remember right.

You know I have never heard of a ride that tilts you out 45 degrees. The 15 is it as far as I know. Its done this way to keep your weight in the seat rather then on the OTSR system.

I don't know of many parks that could actually build a test track like ride. Except for Disney and Universal (which universal has yet to build a ride like it to my knowledge but I bet they could). The technology is similar to what is used on the Indiana Jones ride in California. Its a 250 HP electric motor driving the car it gets its power from the slot the car runs in. The car also actually has 22 wheels the 4 you see plus 18 that clamp the car into the track. All the tire noises are just speakers no tire on test track actually should have a squeal during the ride. Also interesting to note is the amount of stuff that ends up falling off the track onto guests as they walk under the car that goes by overhead at 65 MPH. And about the computer on board its actually 3 computers which I am not sure if its total or each one but its more powerful then the computers on the space shuttle (which is not really that hard to do). One thing I am not sure about is the shaking of the car and the rough road test. On Indiana Jones in California its all done on the ride vehicle and the entire path is smooth. I would think that test track does it the same way but I am not sure.

The tilt out is only 15 degrees thats why I don't think you noticed it. It really is quite minor just enough to notice it for most people and thats it.

Yes you can use the season pass at all paramount parks (except the star trek experience in Vegas). Although I do not believe the parking is good at all parks only PKI. I think "Gold Pass" and "Gold Pass VIP" are the same thing. I have never heard of a third type of pass.

Daily operation not weekend's. PKI first full week is the 4th week of May so friday the 20th would be the first day its open for daily operation. Yes I know its open for weekends starting well this coming weekend the 9th of April (I don't count the sesson pass days since they are not open to the public). Cedar Point does not open for weekends early it just opens starting with daily operation on the 7th of May. Which is 2 weeks before PKI starts daily operation. Just trying to explain why CP is open a few more days a year then PKI was last year. Which actually the weekends balance out the 2 weeks of daily operation and most of the number of days differance comes from the fridays and weekends in September and October.

You can't compare a parks attendence in that way. First do both parks have the same square feet of path ways? Do more people stand in line for rides at one park then then the other? How much time do you spend in the childrens areas of the park? You know a little kid counts as a guest as well. How many operating days are there in each parks season? You CAN NOT compare just on looking around and saying well it feels like there are more people here. Just an FYI CP was open 146 days last year and PKI 130. CP opens for daily operation earlier then PKI does and is open on friday evenings in September and October plus PKI rents out the park most weekends in September. Plus just what days your at a park have a huge effect on how many people there are. I went to cp usually tues-thursday even when it is pouring. So what? I said it before and I will say it again you can not compare parks based on just looking around and saying you believe there are more people in the park. I had forgotten one of the most important things about why can not use this as a way to tell how many people are in a park. The parks layout has a lot to do with how you feel about the crowd in a park. I spent some time and finally found attendence figures for Soak City. It was only 405,000 guests. Which combined with the CP figures does put them at 3.6 million. Part of the problem is this would double count guests who go to both CP and Soak City in a single day so who knows how many of those guests just visited Soak City. But the most important reason why you can not count it like that is simple money they are still seperate ticketed attrations. If a guest spends half the day riding coasters and half the day at BB PKI does not get a penny extra. Where if a guest spends part of the day in CP and the rest in Soak City then Cedar Fair gets extra at some point either a higher end Season pass or a couple of dollars extra on the ticket price.

You can't compare a parks attendence in that way. First do both parks have the same square feet of path ways? Do more people stand in line for rides at one park then then the other? How much time do you spend in the childrens areas of the park? You know a little kid counts as a guest as well. How many operating days are there in each parks season? You CAN NOT compare just on looking around and saying well it feels like there are more people here. Just an FYI CP was open 146 days last year and PKI 130. CP opens for daily operation earlier then PKI does and is open on friday evenings in September and October plus PKI rents out the park most weekends in September. Plus just what days your at a park have a huge effect on how many people there are.

Its two separate parks and thats why Soak City does not count. Go and take a look at the Disney World parks should you count them all as one park and combine the attendance figures? What about Disney Land and California Adventure the parks are only a few hounded feet away from each other. The Disneyland / California Adventure is a great example. If they remove the need for separate tickets or park hopper passes so you could just walk between the parks on a single standard ticket I would agree that the attendence figures should be combined and thats the same thing with Soak City. You either need a special ticket with admission to both or you need a separate ticket to go to both until that restriction is removed they should be and are counted separately. Shoot the normal season pass only works for CP its $55 extra for the season pass to work at both parks. Maybe its just me but if I want to go to a water park and not ride roller coasters I head over to the beach. Oh and I doubt 300,000 people go to BB and don't visit the rest of the park. But who knows its possible.

First I agree I doubt I will see 1000 pph on IJST. But I can tell you don't understand the ride of you think it could handle 5-6 trains. One of the LIM's is only to speed up the ride and is not a true launch. Unless there is a problem I never see anything running 3 minutes between trains there is no way its going to run that slow on a bad day maybe 2 minutes a train but nothing is going to run 3 minutes. A train with only 12 riders is going to load faster then a standard train already. I really think its going to end up around a 1:15 to 1:30 a train. You said in an earlier post that IJST will flop well if its that bad does it need high capacity??? You keep comparing the park to Cedar Point and basicly saying how PKI needs to build the kind of rides CP does yet PKI has the higher attendance figures . Fact is you make it sound like TTD drew in huge crowds. Sure it had a long line but did attendence at the park go up that much??? Well it went up 3% in 2003 then went down 4% last year I don't consider that a huge draw. Actually Cedar Points attendance overall has been flat for a while now. They broke 3 million guests back in 1976 yet only had 3.2 million guests last year. Yes I know the CP figures don't count Soak City but that is a seperate park. Oh PKI had 3.5 million guests last year. The whole reason you see these kinds of rides and not the 300 or 400 foot tall coasters is simple they are going after differant markets. Cedar Point is after the high end coaster market while PKI is after the familys. Guys don't get me wrong I love Cedar Point and plan on making at least one trip up there this year. I would actually go more often if it was only an hour away like PKI is from me. I just had a problem with the stupid comments this guy was making. But then this is all I think the point is the guess what PKI is getting next year which I think is going to be a flat and a Nick expansion which I enjoy good flats although I would love to see that Adams family coaster put in.