Who will own KI if CF goes bankrupt?

[BeastForever]

BAM!

A thought just popped into my head. Many people are starting to doubt if Cedar Fair will survive financially in the next few years and could file for bankruptcy. But, if CF won't be owning Kings Isalnd...

...WHO WILL?!?!

[Dbfan]

Whoever buys it off CF when it goes backrupt I guess. When they really start to fall under I am guessing they will start trying to sell the parks.

[BeastForever]

What if Six Flags bought KI!

[CoastersRZ]

Well, just because a company goes through bankruptcy does not inherently mean that the park will no longer be owned by the same company. Granted the company will likely have different stake holders and people at the helm. See Six Flags as a prime example. The parks are still owned by Six Flags Entertainment Company, although the company is vastly different (and has primarily different ownership) compared to the pre-bankruptcy Six Flags.

[KI FANATIC 37]

^ Yes just like Merill Lynch went bankrupt but Bank of America bought them. I think that is a good example of what CoastersRZ is talking about?

[HTCO]

... No one...

Unless they sell it.

[TH13TEEN]

You sure do like making topics...

[RingMaster]

I don't see Cedar Fair selling off Kings Island as an individual asset. Ever. They have two of their most profitable parks under their belt and in the same state; either one is sold off and that just means they're back to competing with each other.

This comes as a double-edged sword in a sense. On the one hand, having to compete with a thrill park that specializes in coasters (or having an owner that loves coasters) means that the focus will go towards that and that only and will risk alienating large swaths of paying customers should they not like white-knuckled thrill rides. See Six Flags Worlds of Adventure; they pumped out five coasters in two years to go up against the Point, yet they overexpanded too early while the massive summer crowds that were expected never came, and thus they had to shut down.

On the other hand, no competition from outside properties (at least, ones that can even compete with a park of reasonable caliber, ie: Kings Dominion vs Busch Gardens Williamsburg) means that either very little effort is made to upgrade or enhance current ride experiences. See Kings Island; we've already discussed about the lack of attention to thematic upkeep on some of the former Paramount rides, and it's partly because there isn't another property with similar rides and thematic experiences that KI has close enough to compete and challenge the park to think outside the box (the only one that's even remotely close that is roughly the same caliber is two states down in Pigeon Forge). The same could go for the park's Halloween event, but that's for another topic at another time.

[CoastersRZ]

But you are assuming that Kings Island, and Cedar Point are competing with other amusement parks. I would argue that they are not really. Sure, in markets like Columbus, both parks are competing for the same discretionary income. But there are other venues competing for that same money (including the Columbus Zoo, Cincinnati Zoo, Coney Island, Cincinnati Reds, movies, video games, etc.)

[Mr. Coastermania]

I would buy it up and sell shares to kic members.

[CoastersRZ]

I hope you have a LOT of money!

[flightoffear1996]

The park woudl prob. sell for like $300 million or so if I would have to take a guess. There is about 5,000 guest on this board. If everyone pitched in about $52,000 we could be the first park fan site that owns a park!

[Dbfan]

The park woudl prob. sell for like $300 million or so if I would have to take a guess. There is about 5,000 guest on this board. If everyone pitched in about $52,000 we could be the first park fan site that owns a park!

First thing we are doing is putting Scooby back in.

[Purplehaze]

Seems like a great idea until you factor in all the headaches of owning such a park. I opt out of this one.

[BeastForever]

The park woudl prob. sell for like $300 million or so if I would have to take a guess. There is about 5,000 guest on this board. If everyone pitched in about $52,000 we could be the first park fan site that owns a park!

That would be sick!

[jzarley]

Ok...so that may cover the purchase price...what exactly would we do about operating capital?

[bkroz]

No kidding! Who's going to pay for Flight of Fear's air conditioning every single day? Or the air conditioning in the restaurants? Suddenly you'd have a new appreciation for the park leaving the doors to restaurants wide open and running the AC at the same time. Which of us will pay to have HUSS come over here and fix Delirium or The Crypt? And who's going to pay for the fog machines that are desperately desired?

[The Interpreter]

Well, just because a company goes through bankruptcy does not inherently mean that the park will no longer be owned by the same company. Granted the company will likely have different stake holders and people at the helm. See Six Flags as a prime example. The parks are still owned by Six Flags Entertainment Company, although the company is vastly different (and has primarily different ownership) compared to the pre-bankruptcy Six Flags.

Uh, the old owner was Six Flags, Inc.

The new owner is Six Flags Entertainment Corporation.

They are not legally related in any way, other than the latter being the successor to the former. Most of the owners of the latter are actually creditors of the former.

And stockholders in the former got $0.00 per share if they held on to the bitter end. An initial public offering of the new Six Flags shares is probably in the works very soon.

[Guest Millennium]

Um..nothing. Six Flags went bankrupt and they didn't lose any of there major parks.

[The Interpreter]

Um..nothing. Six Flags went bankrupt and they didn't lose any of there major parks.

To the contrary, THEY lost them all. The creditors ended up owning by far the majority of the new company. Tell Dan Snyder he didn't lose anything. Tell Bill Gates. Tell the little old widow woman who owned 10,000 shares her husband left her.

And tell the people of Louisville that Six Flags, of whatever company, did not lose any major parks.

And even before the bankruptcy, the old Six Flags sold off park after park in an attempt to save itself. It didn't work (See Elitch's, Darien, Wild Waves and Enchanted Village, etc...)

[Mr. Coastermania]

The park woudl prob. sell for like $300 million or so if I would have to take a guess. There is about 5,000 guest on this board. If everyone pitched in about $52,000 we could be the first park fan site that owns a park!

First thing we are doing is putting Scooby back in.

I would add a flashback area.adding old favorites from the past.

[KI-ORIG-EMP]

First think I would do is rename Planet Snoopy as Land of Oz and install yellow color bricks from the entrance all ther way to Oz and when any guest ask how to get there I woiuld say, "Follow the yellow brick road!" Dorothy, Tin Man, Lion, Glenda and the Wicked Witch would greet guest as they enter the park.

But if CF was to go bankrupt, it won't change the park themselves. Just it will have new owners and they will keep the performing parks and sell the others. They will have to reduce costs and waste. Rather than install bigger and faster roller coasters every few years, I would make it more family friendly. Roller coasters might bring in crowds, but it does not mean they will spend while in the park. They will just ride and ride and brag about how many times they rode XYZ ride and can't wait until Super Dooper coaster is built next year. I would entice families to come to the park and enjoy it with their kids. I would lower the gate ticket and reduce the number of season pass sales. I would look at the percentage of season pass scans each day as compared to ticket sales and look at the sale of food and merchandice and see what the revenue is. There is no sense if the gate attendence is made of of mostly season pass holders day after day and the per cap spending is lower then compared when the gate is made up of walk in ticket holders and per cap is higher. Families that come to the park on vacation will perchase food, drinks and some gifts for their kids. Just think about it. Would the Reds make any money if the fans while at the park did not buy soft drinks, beer, peanuts, pop corn and of course cracker jacks? No they won't. That is just what I would do.

[Scott Evans]

BAM!

A thought just popped into my head. Many people are starting to doubt if Cedar Fair will survive financially in the next few years and could file for bankruptcy. But, if CF won't be owning Kings Isalnd...

...WHO WILL?!?!

Depends on which type of bankruptcy they would go under. Chapter 7 means Cedar Fair ceases to exist and assets are sold with the creditors getting the proceeds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_11,_Title_11,_United_States_Code#Chapter_11_in_general has basic info regarding a Chapter 11 proceeding. In this case a new management team would probably be put in place by the trustee of the company under reorganization, also all the unit holders would receive nothing which is why the deal with the equity company would have probably been a good deal for most of the unit holders, especially if CF has negative equity.

[RingMaster]

First think I would do is rename Planet Snoopy as Land of Oz and install yellow color bricks from the entrance all ther way to Oz and when any guest ask how to get there I woiuld say, "Follow the yellow brick road!" Dorothy, Tin Man, Lion, Glenda and the Wicked Witch would greet guest as they enter the park.

But if CF was to go bankrupt, it won't change the park themselves. Just it will have new owners and they will keep the performing parks and sell the others. They will have to reduce costs and waste. Rather than install bigger and faster roller coasters every few years, I would make it more family friendly. Roller coasters might bring in crowds, but it does not mean they will spend while in the park. They will just ride and ride and brag about how many times they rode XYZ ride and can't wait until Super Dooper coaster is built next year. I would entice families to come to the park and enjoy it with their kids. I would lower the gate ticket and reduce the number of season pass sales. I would look at the percentage of season pass scans each day as compared to ticket sales and look at the sale of food and merchandice and see what the revenue is. There is no sense if the gate attendence is made of of mostly season pass holders day after day and the per cap spending is lower then compared when the gate is made up of walk in ticket holders and per cap is higher. Families that come to the park on vacation will perchase food, drinks and some gifts for their kids. Just think about it. Would the Reds make any money if the fans while at the park did not buy soft drinks, beer, peanuts, pop corn and of course cracker jacks? No they won't. That is just what I would do.

Paramount did the same exact thing prior to being bought by Cedar Fair by gearing more towards families than thrill seekers. I guess people (more enthusiasts than regular guests) complained because they somehow believed it wasn't the right thing to do and the park should rather go the route of Cedar Point or Magic Mountain and just stick to building coasters...perferably Beemers.

[The Interpreter]

...http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Chapter_11,_Title_11,_United_States_Code#Chapter_11_in_general has basic info regarding a Chapter 11 proceeding. In this case a new management team would probably be put in place by the trustee of the company under reorganization, also all the unit holders would receive nothing which is why the deal with the equity company would have probably been a good deal for most of the unit holders, especially if CF has negative equity.

Actually, the trustee is called the trustee in bankruptcy and has, as his or her chief purpose, the martialing of assets and the protection of the creditors. Equity holders have watched their units go for more than the Apollo proposed price from time to time since the now aborted merger was announced.

As of the end of March, equity was a bit over $102 million...about $1.85 per unit.

[KingsIslandNinja]

Well if Cedar Fair does go bankrupt, what would make me happy and things a lot better at Kings Island is if Paramount bought KI and the other parks they used 2 own, but that will likely not happen, just keep dreaming

[The Interpreter]

Given the scheduled mediation next Tuesday on the Conneaut Lake Park bankruptcy matter...

[HarvestmanMan]

Taft.

[westcoaster]

Dolly wood

[IBEW_Sparky]

My honest thought is (and I could be WAY off base here, but its how I see it) that if CF were ever in genuine danger of having to file bankruptcy, all efforts would be put into saving Cedar Point, Kings Dominion, MAYBE Carowinds, Great America OR Knotts, and Canada's Wonderland. This way, it would still have one major park in each region as well as its International location in Canada.  Its other parks (KI included) would be briefly put on the market, and then ultimately "Geauga Lake-ized" and the signature rides relocated to the remaining parks when the parks didnt sell.  What COULD possibly make KI attractive enough for another company to spend the ludicrus amount of money that CF would ask for the park fully intact, would be The Beast and its History.  If that were the case, the only company I could see pulling the trigger on the buy would be Herschend.  Im not coming out and saying KI isnt a good park, Im simply saying that... in todays still volatile Economic climate... it would lose in the "Which Ohio park do we keep" battle and SIX wouldnt wish to get into another Ohio park battle.