Does the Banshee rattle bother you?

[FUN&ONLY!]

28 minutes ago, coaster sally said:

Well its an s&s.  A b&m should not have a rattle

Any new ride really should not have a rattle.

[silver2005]

Could the rattles found on newer B&M's perhaps have something to do with the kinds of stresses where the coaster structures are supposed to sway a little in order to accommodate certain forces?  Perhaps the super tight wheel alignments like on earlier B&M's had more wear and tear on certain parts and wheels were cheaper to replace than said parts?  

[Driver8rws]

Rode Banshee for the first time this season.  It is INSANELY rattley/shakey compared to years past! 

The transitions are all still nice and smooth, but the entire run shakes the crap out of you now.  It makes the ride a little more "intense", but in a bad way.

FYI, this was a back row ride.  I usually ALWAYS ride in the front row...

[coaster sally]

On 7/18/2020 at 10:28 PM, silver2005 said:

Could the rattles found on newer B&M's perhaps have something to do with the kinds of stresses where the coaster structures are supposed to sway a little in order to accommodate certain forces?  Perhaps the super tight wheel alignments like on earlier B&M's had more wear and tear on certain parts and wheels were cheaper to replace than said parts?  

Candymonium is smooth while orion has a vibration.  Two new for 2020 with same trains.

[LAGuy75]

I rode Banshee yesterday and it has become nearly unrideable for me. It reminds me of how the trio of awful stand ups aged way back when (Iron Wolf/CW and CGA Vortex). Banshee is one and done now. It’s sad. 

[Skibum]

On 8/4/2020 at 1:27 PM, LAGuy75 said:

I rode Banshee yesterday and it has become nearly unrideable for me. It reminds me of how the trio of awful stand ups aged way back when (Iron Wolf/CW and CGA Vortex). Banshee is one and done now. It’s sad. 

 

On 8/4/2020 at 12:26 PM, Driver8rws said:

Rode Banshee for the first time this season.  It is INSANELY rattley/shakey compared to years past! 

The transitions are all still nice and smooth, but the entire run shakes the crap out of you now.  It makes the ride a little more "intense", but in a bad way.

FYI, this was a back row ride.  I usually ALWAYS ride in the front row...

Wow, I rode Banshee for the first time this year and was shocked at how rough and shaky the ride was.  Honestly, I thought that maybe I had misremembered the ride last year and admittedly am a year older.  However, reading these posts, I feel better.  It was a very rough ride today.  Orion felt smooth but I did notice a little side-to-side shuffling that could become unpleasant in a few years.  For the record, I was in the back row on Banshee as well but I typically bounce between front and back row rides on this coaster on any given visit.

[NegativeGs]

My second guess is the urethane tires of the tractor wheels have worn unevenly, hence the rattle on the positive g-force loops. I don't know the life expectancy of a roller coaster wheel but removing a sample of wheels and measuring runout and concentricity could help determine if the wheels are part of the problem.

[dbackdreams]

On 8/4/2020 at 12:29 PM, coaster sally said:

Candymonium is smooth while orion has a vibration.  Two new for 2020 with same trains.

Ummmm I don't know how you say it  because that it what Daimonbdack does because it mean and strikes King's island.  Oroin does not bump around my dude you just don't like Kings Island or something because almost everything you say about is mean if you don't like it don't go mean Sally.

[IceePirate]

23 hours ago, NegativeGs said:

My second guess is the urethane tires of the tractor wheels have worn unevenly, hence the rattle on the positive g-force loops. I don't know the life expectancy of a roller coaster wheel but removing a sample of wheels and measuring runout and concentricity could help determine if the wheels are part of the problem.

I forget which coaster it was, but I remember reading there was one that was so maintenance heavy, that they had to replace the urethane wheels daily, sometimes even during the day. I'm not saying every coaster is like that, but I feel like 1-2 weeks on each set of wheels is a pretty good estimate. They generally have the wheel replacements scheduled since when they get the wheels, they have to cure for a while in the maintenance shop before they can be put on the trains.

 

10 hours ago, dbackdreams said:

Ummmm I don't know how you say it  because that it what Daimonbdack does because it mean and strikes King's island.  Oroin does not bump around my dude you just don't like Kings Island or something because almost everything you say about is mean if you don't like it don't go mean Sally.

Orion doesn't bump you around, but it does have a slight rattle if you're looking for it. It's not a problem now, but people are talking about it because we're worried it might become what Banshee has now, which is a rough, somewhat unenjoyable ride. We would rather have a ride that can be more enjoyable for 2 reasons. The first is that it gives a better experience for us riders, but the second is that it gives the general public more of a reason to come to the park. This means more $$$ for Kings Island which means we would get more big investments faster.

On a side note, if Banshee keeps deteriorating at the rate it currently is, I'm very interested to see what the park will do to fix it. I rode it today, and I overheard some GP in the row behind me talking to each other out loud like it feels like they got a concussion. I honestly probably won't ride Banshee much more myself, because I unfortunately shared their thoughts. I would much prefer if it was rough like Beast, but it unfortunately isn't.

[FUN&ONLY!]

44 minutes ago, IceePirate said:

I forget which coaster it was, but I remember reading there was one that was so maintenance heavy, that they had to replace the urethane wheels daily, sometimes even during the day. I'm not saying every coaster is like that, but I feel like 1-2 weeks on each set of wheels is a pretty good estimate. They generally have the wheel replacements scheduled since when they get the wheels, they have to cure for a while in the maintenance shop before they can be put on the trains.

 

Orion doesn't bump you around, but it does have a slight rattle if you're looking for it. It's not a problem now, but people are talking about it because we're worried it might become what Banshee has now, which is a rough, somewhat unenjoyable ride. We would rather have a ride that can be more enjoyable for 2 reasons. The first is that it gives a better experience for us riders, but the second is that it gives the general public more of a reason to come to the park. This means more $$$ for Kings Island which means we would get more big investments faster.

On a side note, if Banshee keeps deteriorating at the rate it currently is, I'm very interested to see what the park will do to fix it. I rode it today, and I overheard some GP in the row behind me talking to each other out loud like it feels like they got a concussion. I honestly probably won't ride Banshee much more myself, because I unfortunately shared their thoughts. I would much prefer if it was rough like Beast, but it unfortunately isn't.

I don’t know if Orion will deteriorate like Banshee did. When Banshee first opened, it was honestly not much different than it is now in my opinion. It may be SLIGHTLY rougher now, but I remember getting off Banshee in 2014 wondering why it felt so shaky. Orion in the other hand is almost completely smooth right now. I doubt it will get more rattly, but if it does, I can’t see it getting that much worse. I do want to park to try to fix Banshee’s shakiness, but I have no clue how they would go about doing that. I think Action Zone just needs another anchor coaster to bring back crowds. With Banshee’s popularity dwindling over the years, Action Zone has been much emptier compared to other areas of the park like Coney Mall and Rivertown.

[Pagoda Gift Shop]

There are some nice YouTube videos online from Cedar Point's Winter Chill Out events where the maintenance staff talk about roller coaster wheels, etc.  Based on a lot of that information, it would seem to be very unlikely that "the wheels" would be the cause of roughness on Banshee, at least not in a simple sense.  The wheels are definitely inspected nightly, with any that are too worn being replaced. 

The wheels used on at least GateKeeper and Rougarou are a mix of nylon and polyurethane wheels.  This is mostly to regulate speed, as all polyurethane wheels would be much more likely to result in a valley on cold weather days.  

All the trains are stripped down to basically nothing during the offseason.  I wonder how much changes to the track outside play a part in the roughness on Banshee, as well as on how often some of the more internal parts like bearings are replaced.  It is also worth noting that Banshee has the "new" B&M invert trains, which could also being aging differently than the old variety. 

These are all interesting topics that maybe someday a Kings Island ride maintenance person could be asked or talk about during a Q&A session.

[RayFields]

5 hours ago, Pagoda Gift Shop said:

It is also worth noting that Banshee has the "new" B&M invert trains, which could also being aging differently than the old variety.

I think that these new trains are the primary culprit contributing to the discomfiture on Banshee. The trains are much lighter than the trains on their other inverts and with Banshee being so intense I think the ride needs the older heavier trains even more-so than their other inverts.

Swapping the trains would probably reduce the shakiness/roughness at least to "normal" levels (on par with other B&M inverts)

If I was Cedar Fair I would bring this up with B&M during this off-season....should be a simple fix and threads like these will disappear into anonymity

[coaster sally]

2 minutes ago, RayFields said:

I think that these new trains are the primary culprit contributing to the discomfiture on Banshee. The trains are much lighter than the trains on their other inverts and with Banshee being so intense I think the ride needs the older heavier trains even more-so than their other inverts.

Swapping the trains would probably reduce the shakiness/roughness at least to "normal" levels (on par with other B&M inverts)

If I was Cedar Fair I would bring this up with B&M during this off-season....should be a simple fix and threads like these will disappear into anonymity

Millions in new trains are a simple fix?

[RayFields]

39 minutes ago, coaster sally said:

Millions in new trains are a simple fix?

Simpler than tearing down the ride and putting something else there......If the trains are indeed found to be the culprit then the entire expense of the new trains should be on placed on B&M due them not designing/using the proper train type in the first place...Mistakes happen

[BeastieFanatic]

I really dont think the ride is uncomfortable or shakey at all... its not silky smooth but its also not painful. I just recently watched a youtube video where someone criticized Banshees rattle and people in the comments were defending it, claiming they didnt notice any rattle. I realize thats anecdotal but I think the GP dont notice any level of discomfort, Banshee constantly has long lines during busy season, if thats any indicator.

[Pagoda Gift Shop]

It's an interesting question how much interaction the park has with B&M about the ride and trains.  Again there is a lot we just don't know.  It's very possible that the "new" style trains are costing the park a lot less in terms of wear and tear.  Until the ride experience becomes uncomfortable enough that complaints are being made, it seems unlikely they would make any big changes.  Until then, reliability and maintenance costs would likely be more important.

[RayFields]

I don't even notice roughness, rattles, etc. unless I have a headache afterwards....roller coasters are never going to be perfectly smooth and that's part of their charm but if a ride gives people a headache then I think changes should be made...not sure what percentage of people acquire a headache after riding Banshee so who knows...dain bramage is not good

 

[wabashcr]

3 hours ago, BeastieFanatic said:

I really dont think the ride is uncomfortable or shakey at all... its not silky smooth but its also not painful. I just recently watched a youtube video where someone criticized Banshees rattle and people in the comments were defending it, claiming they didnt notice any rattle. I realize thats anecdotal but I think the GP dont notice any level of discomfort, Banshee constantly has long lines during busy season, if thats any indicator.

Most of the GP won't have the same frame of reference as enthusiasts.  So while most here may find it relatively rough and uncomfortable, casuals like me, who are more likely to compare it to something like Invertigo, are going to think it glides like a dream.  I haven't ridden it this year, but I've never had any complaints about Banshee.  Honestly, until it starts to rattle like Invertigo, I suspect this is a complete non-issue for the park or B&M.

[bengalsguy23]

12 hours ago, RayFields said:

Simpler than tearing down the ride and putting something else there......If the trains are indeed found to be the culprit then the entire expense of the new trains should be on placed on B&M due them not designing/using the proper train type in the first place...Mistakes happen

Not a simple fix. The old train design has seats that sit up more which means the clearance needed on the bottom for peoples legs is longer. Areas of the ride would need to be dugout. The station would need a moving floor and the lift hill catwalk and break catwalk all would have to be redone at a lower height.

[silver2005]

I would also point out that even the old school B&M's like Raptor, Rougarou, Talon and Great Bear have a rattle to them.  

[bengalsguy23]

I rode Banshee before it opened to the public in 2014 and it had a rattle then. Yes rides develop a worse one as they age but Banshee has one from the get go. I rode candymonium recently and it had zero rattle at all. Compared to Orion which does have some vibration. 
 

With this in mind I’m wondering if like others have mentioned it has something to do with the soil at Kings Island. If you think about it every major steel roller coaster at Kings Island has a rattle. 

[Cle2KI]

It is interesting people will say they dislike B&M due to its forceless boring ride, yet 5 pages later here we are discussing the painful B&Ms. Anyway the worst I noticed was on Fury towards the back it was very shakey. 

[SOBwasaSOB]

1 hour ago, Cle2KI said:

It is interesting people will say they dislike B&M due to its forceless boring ride, yet 5 pages later here we are discussing the painful B&Ms. Anyway the worst I noticed was on Fury towards the back it was very shakey. 

While I do tend to agree modern B&M's lack intensity, Banshee is the exception.  I have greyed out on Banshee many times.

[NegativeGs]

On 8/10/2020 at 11:16 PM, bengalsguy23 said:

I rode Banshee before it opened to the public in 2014 and it had a rattle then. Yes rides develop a worse one as they age but Banshee has one from the get go. I rode candymonium recently and it had zero rattle at all. Compared to Orion which does have some vibration. 
 

With this in mind I’m wondering if like others have mentioned it has something to do with the soil at Kings Island. If you think about it every major steel roller coaster at Kings Island has a rattle. 

As a structural and mechanical engineer, I don't feel the soil at KI is the reason for the rattles. My guess is it is still the tractor wheels. But that's still just a guess. Be nice if KI hired a local engineering company to diagnose the problem.

[RogueFoxPaws]

I am REALLY glad I’m not alone in noticing this.  I did a multi-day trip back in July and remember thinking when I sat down to eat, “Wow when did Banshee get rough?”  And it’s sad, because Banshee is one of my favorite coasters.  I love inverts.  I rode in the front row and row 4 - front was okay, but oh my gosh, row 4 was terrible.  Hopefully KI can figure out what’s going on and make it an amazing ride again!

[coaster sally]

Would like for @DonHelbig to chime in on this with his thoughts.

[dbackdreams]

8 hours ago, coaster sally said:

Would like for @DonHelbig to chime in on this with his thoughts.

And mean Sally can just be quite so there

[Saerenzea]

Seats are important. Front row is awesome. Others not so much. It's like sitting on a wheel on a woodie vs the middle row. 

[DonHelbig]

On 8/22/2020 at 8:59 AM, coaster sally said:

Would like for @DonHelbig to chime in on this with his thoughts.

No, it doesn't. I'm not on the lookout for things like this when I experience attractions. I'm just trying to enjoy the moment and have fun. 

[beastfan11]

Wait. You guys go to the park to have fun? I’ve had a season pass since 2004 so I can complain about things on the Internet.