Discussing Land and Space in and around Vortex

[Benjamin22]

13 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

What if we got a second GCI? More like that GCI concept we saw at iappa last year, but not dueling, but has the new trains and inversions and that lift structure. 

I wouldn’t want this. Kings Island already have a  good if not great wooden coaster lineup. While yes it’d have inversions it’d still feel very similar to Mystic Timbers. 

[Hueney020]

13 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

What if we got a second GCI? More like that GCI concept we saw at iappa last year, but not dueling, but has the new trains and inversions and that lift structure. 

I would love that but feel like another wooden coaster would be just to much. A ground up RMC is one thing and completely different. That is the only way I would say yes if it’s going to be a “wooden” coaster. 

[BeastForever]

On 10/30/2019 at 9:56 PM, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

 I believe KI likes being known for their wooden coasters and I think they'll want to continue that. 

But are we really in any danger of losing that distinction anytime soon? If ever?

Unlikely, I would say.

With so few new wooden coasters being built in general relative to steel, I'd say the track record is safe as ever, unless HW goes with another wooden coaster, which I don't see hapening considering how full they've got their hands right now with keeping their current woodies in acceptable condition. And even then it would have to be a monster 5800 ft wooden coaster to surpass KI

Herhseypark at this point is more likely to RMC an existing woodie (Wildcat), than add another. And like HW, they're not really that close to KI's track record either.

Six Flags Great America is the only park with a truly plausible chance to (re)capture the record with another woodie, but I just don't see it happening.

For reference this is the tale of the tape currently for the leading wooden coaster parks by track length (topper track included for convenience. I know, I know I dont think theyre truly wooden coasters either but what the parks say goes I guess...)

 

Kings Island - 18,804

SFGAm - 16,558

Hersheypark - 13,329

Holiday World - 13,284

As much I like wooden coasters, particularly the ones we already have, I would have to agree with the sentiment that receiving another one, whether it be from GCI, RMC, or otherwise would be redundant and unnecessary.

 

 

[Fishleehooker]

33 minutes ago, Hueney020 said:

I would love that but feel like another wooden coaster would be just to much. A ground up RMC is one thing and completely different. That is the only way I would say yes if it’s going to be a “wooden” coaster. 

On the other hand with just one more wooden coaster, KI would distinguish itself above all other parks in the world for something.   With a pretty small investment, we'd be the number 1 wood coaster destination in the entire world.  And IF I were to put another wood coaster anywhere in a park to distinguish itself as THE wooden coaster capital of the world, it'd be between The Racer and The Beast, two if the most storied roller coaster ever, particularly wood.  Right in a row would be Racer, New one, Beast and Mystic Timbers. That'd be insane and so cool and if a wood coaster should go anywhere...rivertown or next to it makes sense. Its a thought anyway.  Cedar Fair would own in the same state, the number 1 coaster capital in the world, the one that only needs wooden ones, which can be found at its other park in the same state!  Makes sense to me. But I am weird. 

[Fishleehooker]

5 minutes ago, BeastForever said:

But are we really in any danger of losing that distinction anytime soon? If ever?

Unlikely, I would say.

With so few new wooden coasters being built in general relative to steel, I'd say the track record is safe as ever, unless HW goes with another wooden coaster, which I don't see hapening considering how full they've got their hands right now with keeping their current woodies in acceptable condition. And even then it would have to be a monster 5800 ft wooden coaster to surpass KI

Herhseypark at this point is more likely to RMC an existing woodie (Wildcat), than add another. And like HW, they're not really that close to KI's track record either.

Six Flags Great America is the only park with a truly plausible chance to (re)capture the record with another woodie, but I just don't see it happening.

For reference this is the tale of the tape currently for the leading wooden coaster parks by track length (topper track included for convenience. I know, I know I dont think theyre truly wooden coasters either but what the parks say goes I guess...)

 

Kings Island - 18,804

SFGAm - 16,558

Hersheypark - 13,329

Holiday World - 13,284

As much I like wooden coasters, particularly the ones we already have, I would have to agree with the sentiment that receiving another one, whether it be from GCI, RMC, or otherwise would be redundant and unnecessary.

 

 

It's be a Chinese one that'd beat it. I look at it in numbers though.  Dollywood and Holiday World have 2 world class Wooden ones, as does Kings Island.  

[BeastForever]

Which is why I specifically said "by track length".

 I understand that what you might consider to be the "best" wooden coaster collection might differ significantly from simply who has the most amount of track, since that is entirely subjective and up to one's opinion.

But what I'm trying to get it as that KI already does distinguish themselves from any other in that regard. 

Note that the track record was emphasized greatly MT's announcement. So I am arguing based on that, I would say Cedar Fair feels they've already accomplished the goal of making KI known as the "premier" wooden coaster park.

[McSalsa]

31 minutes ago, BeastForever said:

Six Flags Great America is the only park with a truly plausible chance to (re)capture the record with another woodie, but I just don't see it happening. 

And rumor has it, SFGam may not be looking to add another woodie, but might RMC American Eagle. If that happens, bye-bye 9300 feet of wooden track (since RMC Eagle would be Steel I-Box) and suddenly Kings Island is way out in front in terms of total wooden coaster track.

[BeastForever]

And so there you have it. The track record becomes eve more unbreakable, if that comes into fruition. And if you're discluding topper track, that'd leave them with...

...just 4158 ft of truly wooden track between Viper and Little Dipper.

Which brings me back to my point, nothing will be required of KI to maintain their standing as the leading wooden coaster park.

In fact, it will become even more distinguished the more other parks convert existing coasters

 

As a side note, I would envision the Boss getting RMC'ed sometime in the forseeable future, however something tells me SFStl just isn't high enough on their respective corporate totem pole to receive such an investment. Who knows, we'll see...

 

 

[Fishleehooker]

That is a technicality though.  Looking at top 50 wooden roller coasters lists, which are subjective of course, you find at least 2 parks with 3 wood entries.  And there is Kings Island with 2.  I am fine with an RMC that doesn't count as wood though.  But Knoebels has Phoneix which often ranks in the top 3-4 on Wooden and has lately been #1, Flying Turns and Twister all ranking on top 50 wood lists.  Holiday World has Voyage often ranking 1-2, Raven and Legend. And while Dollywood, like Kings Island, has 2, they rank very high with Lightning Rod and Thunderhead. We usually get Beast and Mystic Timbers on these lists.  But 2 parks offer more highly rated wood coasters and that seems easily rectified is all I am saying. Not sure if that is the way they would go either though.  I think an RMC, again, is possible.    

[Fishleehooker]

Also...I wonder if the price of steel will effect whether or not more wood ones get built the next little while.  I would think so.  

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

The more I think about it, I think a Gerstlauer infinity coaster would look pretty nice there! Especially if they give it the lighting that hangtime at Knott's has. 

[silver2005]

I want to specify my want for an RMC Topper Track coaster in Vortex's spot.  48" height requirement that equals Vortex's (as long as it isn't too crazy, doesn't need to be), would have crazy air on par with Vortex's first drop (except EVERYWHERE), fit in 3-5 inversions, something between 150-175 ft and a good length to match.  

Maybe go with orange and blue rails? 

[Shawn Meyer]

9 hours ago, Shawn Meyer said:

I'm thinking a ground up RMC like Twisted Timbers at Kings Dominion, but longer to accommodate 3 trains. Have the back to back loops like Vortex had to pay tribute to Vortex. That's my vote.

^ I said this on page 7, but nobody saw it or skipped over me. I'd be all in for having a topper track model like Outlaw run in the former spot of Vortex. Either way, I want to see RMC pull off an actual loop and have them go back to back to pay tribute to Vortex.

[Fishleehooker]

8 hours ago, Shawn Meyer said:

^ I said this on page 7, but nobody saw it or skipped over me. I'd be all in for having a topper track model like Outlaw run in the former spot of Vortex. Either way, I want to see RMC pull off an actual loop and have them go back to back to pay tribute to Vortex.

I'm all aboard the RMC train for sure.   If they put it where Vortex is, it'd look great too.  Something like Twisted Timbers would put KI over the Top. 

[Fishleehooker]

Been watching the RMC Raptors and they look pretty cool, but they seem kinda cute.  They seem a little short and they don't look as amazing as the other RMCs to me, but surely there is some potential.  Kings Island might want to wait until some of that potential is realized.  I think they are doing that with Orion as B & M has likely learned on every Giga they make.  They would do that on a regular RMC too by waiting until now or soonish.   The RMS Raptor, though, to me looks like something that isn't visually breathtaking, like the thing I'd put where Vortex is.  Raptors do, however, look really cool and hip and modern.  Seems a Raptor should go near Banshee and ideally would take Invertigo and or some of the surrounding area.   Vortex's spot needs a big piece of framework and to look imposing and cool.  Wood or RMC works best there as I have said too much now.  I love a dive or Raptor, but not at the expense of a RMC ground up.  Put the RMC Raptor at front when Invetigo goes.  It's the perfect spot.  Or in that area, along with a Dive coaster.  Of course, that's asking a lot, when they are installing a giga as I speak. And I am super hyped on it.  But something needs to replace Vortex.  

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

RMC Raptors are too low capacity.

[Benjamin22]

9 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

RMC Raptors are too low capacity.

Not necessarily, Jersey Devil with long trains & 4 trains might have decent capacity. If it also has a moving loading station it may even be quicker. 

[gforce1994]

On 10/30/2019 at 10:50 PM, chuck norris said:

Fun place fit a hotel ... But the logistics of parking for the hotel and ability to enter /exit the hotel when the park is open would be tricky


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It could be quite doable. Maybe an underground tunnel to lot?

Maybe CF could dip into casino business, as that market has become very profitable.

[Benjamin22]

17 minutes ago, gforce1994 said:

It could be quite doable. Maybe an underground tunnel to lot?

Maybe CF could dip into casino business, as that market has become very profitable.

I wouldn’t want my brand (which is associated with family entertainment) associated with gambling. An industry that relies on addiction and numerous other things…

[FUN&ONLY!]

1 hour ago, Ben43065 said:

Not necessarily, Jersey Devil with long trains & 4 trains might have decent capacity. If it also has a moving loading station it may even be quicker. 

While this is true... 4 trains with 12 riders could potentially be the equivalent of Flight of Fear’s capacity with two 24 passenger trains which is not very good capacity. Also, it would be easier to stack four trains, so it could be even less than Flight of Fear’s capacity.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

I think something like this would be a nice fit. Just add a couple inversions to differentiate it from Diamondback and Orion.

 

[Benjamin22]

One of the coolest things about DC Rivals is the fact the back row is backwards. I don’t think it’d really need to be a hyper coaster, but I do agree it’d be nice to have an inversion focused Mack.

[ThrillKingsFitzy]

On 11/2/2019 at 3:04 PM, BeastForever said:

As much I like wooden coasters, particularly the ones we already have, I would have to agree with the sentiment that receiving another one, whether it be from GCI, RMC, or otherwise would be redundant and unnecessary.

Yet Cedar Point unnecessarily adds more coasters every 2 to three years without removing attractions when they are already landlocked

Edit: Any idea why the rich text is the default text in KICentral on phones?

[Benjamin22]

9 minutes ago, Fitzcoasts14 said:

Yet Cedar Point unnecessarily adds more coasters every 2 to three years without removing attractions when they are already landlocked

Ehhh not necessarily, GateKeeper, Rougarou & SteVe all saw the removal of a coaster. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see another one of their coasters be removed soon. 

[silver2005]

^Physically, Rougarou is Mantis.  They didn't get rid of a coaster for that.  

[Benjamin22]

26 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

^Physically, Rougarou is Mantis.  They didn't get rid of a coaster for that.  

I mean technically they kind of did unless you don’t consider it a new credit unless you don’t count it as a new credit. Still doesn’t change my point that Cedar Point has in recent history removed coasters to make way for new additions.

[silver2005]

^But you used Rougarou as an example and equivocating that with the actual track removal of Mean Streak and Disaster Transport for Steel Vengeance and GateKeeper respectively when no track was removed to make way for Mantis transforming into Rougarou.  Using it in that example and the discussion on whether people count it as 1 or 2 credits are 2 different discussions.  

[Fishleehooker]

How many more Coasters does Cedar Point really need? Seems they need stuff more for family and logistical things first.  I couldn't do every CP coaster in a day and there are so many it makes marathoning tougher.   

They kinda need another wood one.  I wouldn't go nuts there if I was them. I'd want guests to consider traveling across state to use both parks on one vacation, meaning there should be some differentiation.  So a small, good GCI would make sense.  But if they do that, I think they should add another to KI to make a person want to do both parks. I guess Orion may not do that to someone who just rode Millie.  So the next one at KI that goes where Vortex is, needs to really stand out from anything that CP has to offer. IMO.  

[ThrillKingsFitzy]

10 hours ago, Ben43065 said:

Ehhh not necessarily, GateKeeper, Rougarou & SteVe all saw the removal of a coaster. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see another one of their coasters be removed soon. 

(Corkscrew in the back acting like he doesn't exist)

[Fishleehooker]

39 minutes ago, Fitzcoasts14 said:

(Corkscrew in the back acting like he doesn't exist)

Iron Dragon hitting the deck too!