Winterfest 2021 Reviews and Updates

[brenthodge]

9 minutes ago, BoddaH1994 said:

I think using the Peanuts gang for the nativity would go over like a lead balloon. I mean, the thought of it is making me chuckle right now but I could see some finding that incredibly offensive. 
 

Really? It’s been done a lot. I mean if HALLMARK is ok with it…

[FUN&ONLY!]

18 minutes ago, brenthodge said:

And yea, coney is a disappointment. That was an improvement that has really not been kept up. A lot of elements weren’t even lit Sat night. The Elf props are wasted there. They aren’t lit at all and make no sense with the LED neon stuff. Wish they would move all of the elf props to Festhaus area where the elf show is, light them properly all around the lake and make it a focused elf village. Then really really play up the “CONEY CHRISTMAS” with Christmas dance music, a well maintained light show and incorporate the crazy drug trip tree into it. 

I think in general there are a lot of props/ effects that have not been kept up over the years. I think Winterfest is improving every year, but a lot of the decorations need replaced from year to year. For example, look at Brewhouse. Half the lights that are supposed to outline the building are out. The lights outlining the buildings seem to have been kept up for the most part on International Street, but they could really use some love on International Street. In addition, one of the polar bears is missing from around the Winterfest sign, probably because it wasn’t working. When a tree or prop that is clearly supposed to be lit up isn’t, it is pretty noticeable.

[MDMC01]

36 minutes ago, brenthodge said:

Agree about nativity. That’s why I wish it was its own experience, and use cutouts of the peanuts gang for the petting zoo nativity. My idea was put the classic nativity and vocalists in tower gardens with the stained glass nativity. Add additional stained glass panels  that light up as different parts of the story are narrated and sung. Call it “Silent Night, Holy Night”. Move Candy Cane Lane to the path to Rivertown using the footers from year one for the candy canes and even add a path in the grass fir some of the additional props. Bring back a big red/white lit tree to the base from year one. 

I really like the idea of reserving Tower Gardens for the vocalists/Nativity show, however, if they go that route (to separate the singers from the surrounding animals), why bring the animals at all? Yeah, it's not a perfect situation, but I feel like the vocalists being there (and what they are singing about) necessitates the animals. Put another way (IMO), you can have the singers without the animals, but why have just animals (without the singers)? Or maybe keep the separate show close to the animals as the petting zoo aspect could come after the show (like a roller coaster exiting into a gift shop) - if they kept the petting zoo/farm in Planet Snoopy, perhaps the Nativity show could be on the path close to Woodstock Gliders (leading to RFYLCB). Thoughts?

[brenthodge]

13 hours ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

I think in general there are a lot of props/ effects that have not been kept up over the years. I think Winterfest is improving every year, but a lot of the decorations need replaced from year to year. For example, look at Brewhouse. Half the lights that are supposed to outline the building are out. The lights outlining the buildings seem to have been kept up for the most part on International Street, but they could use some love in Rivertown especially. In addition, one of the polar bears is missing from around the Winterfest sign, probably because it wasn’t working. When a tree or prop that is clearly supposed to be lit up isn’t, it is pretty noticeable.

There are a lot of things not lit this year. Garlands on the tinkers stage are not lit and have plugs just hanging out, several things have sections out etc. they keep filing in with a lot of “off the shelf” flimsy things that just look too small in scale and don’t last. The whole area with random cheap deer behind coney skyline is an example of qty over quality. You can definitely see the commercial grade things over the residential, but even some of that on year 3-4 needs to be retired and replaced. I get this is a hard year budget wise, and I love that we got the parade. I just hope they keep refreshing. As for the lights on the buildings, they either need to be removed after Winterfest each year, or upgrade to permanently installed lighting. The way they installed years ago really doesn’t stand up to year round use. 

 

12 hours ago, MDMC01 said:

I really like the idea of reserving Tower Gardens for the vocalists/Nativity show, however, if they go that route (to separate the singers from the surrounding animals), why bring the animals at all? Yeah, it's not a perfect situation, but I feel like the vocalists being there (and what they are singing about) necessitates the animals. Put another way (IMO), you can have the singers without the animals, but why have just animals (without the singers)? Or maybe keep the separate show close to the animals as the petting zoo aspect could come after the show (like a roller coaster exiting into a gift shop) - if they kept the petting zoo/farm in Planet Snoopy, perhaps the Nativity show could be on the path close to Woodstock Gliders (leading to RFYLCB). Thoughts?

I think the animals are cool, but are such a distraction that I don’t think the show gets the respect it deserves. I’d be cool with ditching the petting zoo all together. I think they were going for the living nativity idea, but those usually just have the set with static characters. That’s all I was expecting it to be the first year. I was blow away when all the vocalists came out. They seem like two separate ideas (pretty sophisticated vocals, mixed  With a kids petting zoo) so that’s why I was thinking actually make the animal experience more kid focused. Don’t even call it sounds of the nativity, but maybe just “Away in the manger-a Peanuts nativity” 

[BoddaH1994]

1 hour ago, brenthodge said:

Really? It’s been done a lot. I mean if HALLMARK is ok with it…

Ha... well, color me shocked.

To be fair, I kind of imagined them putting Snoopy as the baby Jesus. 

[brenthodge]

6 hours ago, super7 said:

 

The parade has backfired if it is meant to keep people in the park.  There is a mass exodus when it is over.   It’s nice that the park is peaceful that last hour. 
 

 

I’m not sure what the answer is. Run it earlier people will leave even sooner. Later… they will probably leave before it’s over. I was walking away from Mystic Sat night about 6:00 and overheard a dad saying to his kids “you guys about ready to head out?” They could’ve only been there 2 hours max even if they showed up right at open LOL. It’s also tricky because it pulls so much from all the other shows/ street characters that they have to fit it in around the other show times. It seemed like it was still busy FOR the parade, but I agree it was an empty out right after. So maybe keeping a significant crowd till 8:30-9 is considered a success. 

[RedRacer76]

13 hours ago, brenthodge said:

I’m not sure what the answer is. Run it earlier people will leave even sooner. Later… they will probably leave before it’s over. I was walking away from Mystic Sat night about 6:00 and overheard a dad saying to his kids “you guys about ready to head out?” They could’ve only been there 2 hours max even if they showed up right at open LOL. It’s also tricky because it pulls so much from all the other shows/ street characters that they have to fit it in around the other show times. It seemed like it was still busy FOR the parade, but I agree it was an empty out right after. So maybe keeping a significant crowd till 8:30-9 is considered a success. 

I think the timing of it is perfect. If you cut the hours of operation then people are less likely to go even if they aren't going to stay the whole 5 hours. People like having the option to stay longer even if they don't. This also happens during Haunt, and it's why they aren't open till 1 am anymore. Even with them closing at 12 that last half hour to an hour is a ghost town. That just means its a perfect time to squeeze in as many rides as possible in the end. While that last hour might seem useless because no one is there, that hour just being there helps get guests in the park even if they leave before it.

[BoddaH1994]

14 hours ago, brenthodge said:

I’m not sure what the answer is. Run it earlier people will leave even sooner. Later… they will probably leave before it’s over. I was walking away from Mystic Sat night about 6:00 and overheard a dad saying to his kids “you guys about ready to head out?” They could’ve only been there 2 hours max even if they showed up right at open LOL. It’s also tricky because it pulls so much from all the other shows/ street characters that they have to fit it in around the other show times. It seemed like it was still busy FOR the parade, but I agree it was an empty out right after. So maybe keeping a significant crowd till 8:30-9 is considered a success. 

I’m sure they planned on people leaving after the parade. Heck, when it’s done there’s an hour left in the night. I think the time might be to both keep people in the park later and encourage them to leave after. Both benefit the park. Remember that the longer you keep them in, the more likely they are to buy that extra meal, or light up necklace, or hand warmers. Additionally, the parade is late enough that groups will leave close to their normal cadence if they planned to say all night, so their spending habits for exit purchases will be similar. Over all, things like times of parades are very very calculated - logistically, financially, and operationally. I think it’s likely that people are behaving the exact way that they expected them to. 

[brenthodge]

1 hour ago, BoddaH1994 said:

I’m sure they planned on people leaving after the parade. Heck, when it’s done there’s an hour left in the night. I think the time might be to both keep people in the park later and encourage them to leave after. Both benefit the park. Remember that the longer you keep them in, the more likely they are to buy that extra meal, or light up necklace, or hand warmers. Additionally, the parade is late enough that groups will leave close to their normal cadence if they planned to say all night, so their spending habits for exit purchases will be similar. Over all, things like times of parades are very very calculated - logistically, financially, and operationally. I think it’s likely that people are behaving the exact way that they expected them to. 

Totally agree. I was just saying I’m not sure what they would do differently, and I don’t think they see the people staying till 8:30 then leaving a “backfire” as the op was suggesting. The fact that it’s as busy as it is at 8:30-9 seems to indicate it is a success, and I saw lots of people eating  while they waited on I street for it to get there. 

[super7]

On 11/29/2021 at 7:29 PM, MDMC01 said:

I really like the idea of reserving Tower Gardens for the vocalists/Nativity show, however, if they go that route (to separate the singers from the surrounding animals), why bring the animals at all? Yeah, it's not a perfect situation, but I feel like the vocalists being there (and what they are singing about) necessitates the animals. Put another way (IMO), you can have the singers without the animals, but why have just animals (without the singers)? Or maybe keep the separate show close to the animals as the petting zoo aspect could come after the show (like a roller coaster exiting into a gift shop) - if they kept the petting zoo/farm in Planet Snoopy, perhaps the Nativity show could be on the path close to Woodstock Gliders (leading to RFYLCB). Thoughts?

From what I have seen, most people are interested in the animals or the vocalists     The animal people talk during the performance, not watch or even listen.    

[Timchat2]

I've noticed that too. Some guests seem to treat the vocalists as a TV running in the background, which is a shame since Sounds of the Nativity has perhaps the strongest performers in the park.

[brenthodge]

Ok LONNNNG post but these were some ideas I posted last year about reallocating a lot of what the park already has to make WF stronger in theme and areas clearer. Some of these ideas I saw implemented this year LOL so maybe the park is paying attention. I’ll repost and update a bit and hope for the best next year! 
 

WINTERFEST ASSET REALLOCATION

ENTRY - No major changes

INTERNATIONAL STREET - No major changes -

Every “area” gets a large 20’ tree like the one in Coney decorated and lit to match the theme of the area -like a “signpost” 

ARCTIC WAY (Walkway to Action Zone in front of theatre)

CHARACTERS - Snowflake Fairy, Ice Queen and Prince

All of the snowfall lights/ blue lights from the walkway between Rivertown and Coney move here. Blue/ white uplighting, Lots of character interaction

Menorah and Dreidel stained glass decor (did 2020) 

Main theatre show becomes “White Christmas Dreams” a show with live orchestra, vocalists and dancers that tells the story of a family that experiences the magic of Christmas one winter’s eve.

Arctic Way ties International Street into IceZone

ICE ZONE - No major changes (Action Zone)

CHARACTER - Jack Frost

Ice Zone gets silver trusses with uplighting - maybe lots of LED snowflakes - modern and bright - all the spiral trees form Coney move here

Big signature tree is modern, silver, maybe only lights  

AREA - ENCHANTED ELF VILLAGE (Octoberfest lake)

CHARACTERS All elves

Brass band becomes Elf Brass band

Tinkers remains in Festhaus

All elf set pieces move to the areas around the lake with better lighting to really enhance

signature tree is lit red/green/gold with large traditional decor and toy ornaments 

FLORAL CLOCK - acts as major entrance feature for new Candy Cane Lane/Drum Line area

Gets great lighting package.

AREA - DRUM LINE

CHARACTERS Nutcracker Suite

Move trumpeters to the walkway leading to drummers with the MERRY CHRISTMAS sign and large gifts, toys etc

Four Drummer Drumming moves to stage on Skyline seating pavilion

Add uplighting to trees and possible 2-3 footers for lighting rigs to better light the soldier statues

Area brightly lit

Signature tree in red/blue/white

AREA - CANDY CANE LANE

CHARACTERS Candy Cane, Candy Dandy, Cotton Candy Fairy

Moves to the path to River Town past floral clock

Add large LED tree in red/white with light show  on the old base where tree was WF’17

Add paved paths in this area (in the grass) to tree and to paved area for candy castle - these could be seating areas and landscaping during normal season and paths through cemetery for Haunt

Footings from Winterfest Way WF’17 hold candy cane scaffolding with red/white overhead string lights

Line main path and new paths with candy cane markers

Kona Ice drink place becomes hot chocolate/candy “gingerbread House” food location

TUNNEL OF LIGHTS - From where path straightens out leads into…

AREA - HOMESPUN HOLIDAYS (Rivertown)

Move all of the crafter booths to this area to play up the “homespun” theme. Some along the path, some set up like a little village in The Beast plaza

signature tree with lanterns, white lights, homespun ornaments in the middle of crafters village (beast plaza) 

Improve look of crafter barns to make look like different style buildings in Rivertown

More rustic decor

Remainder of Rivertown as previous years

AREA - Coca-Cola POLAR BEAR WAY (Path along former Vortex site)

Red and white string lights overhead

Coca-Cola billboards line the path (like a road to Tinsel Town)

Plaza at Backlot becomes the Polar Bear Dance Party

Basketball 3 point game gets Coca-Cola Holiday enhancement-maybe “ornament toss” 

Transition area in to Tinsel Town brighter and bolder

AREA - TINSEL TOWN (End of Coney Mall)

No major changes - giant tinsel trees are signature tree  better clustering of trim elements 

AREA - CONEY CARNIVAL CHRISTMAS (Coney Mall)

No major changes - add overhead color change LED lights from HAUNT (did this 2020) 

Make even gaudier, bolder, brighter - move the giant light sculptures from the path to River Town here

More Silver Tinsel - almost an extension of Tinsel Town

AREA - CHARLIE BROWN’S CHRISTMASTOWN (Planet Snoopy)

Move the live performance aspect out of the petting zoo - Keep “Sounds of the Nativity” with lighting and music, but maybe Peanuts Narration and sings form theChristmas special instead.

“What the Dickens” moves out to new area (keeps the indoor area for inclement weather)

International Showplace adds better roof - possible temporary back and sides and heaters “Charlie Browns Christmas Spectacular” moves here with minor modifications. The two side stages of this performance space already work for this show. This brings all of thePeanuts entertainment to one area to create stronger destination

 

AREA - DICKENS SQUARE (where 4 drummer drumming was)

CHARACTERS Scrooge, Marley, Ghosts

Makes sense tying into International Street

Use Scrooge’s house set from 05 WF as background for “What The Dickens” -  Can move to Peanuts Showcase during inclement weather

Use some graveyard items to make Scrooges cemetary

Add some “Old England” set pieces

Bring this “Christmas Carol” theme to Boo Blasters

 

AREA - OH HOLY NIGHT (Tower Gardens)

Live performers from “Sounds of Nativity” move here - create stage area where Ginger Bread castle went when this was Candy Cane Lane

Use existing footers to add light trusses to provide projected “light through stained glass windows”

All stained glass nativity pieces move here - maybe not all on one big area, but in smaller clusters that are dim, but light up brighter when songs related to those characters are sung (shepherds, angels, wisemen etc)

Twinkling lights in the trees for “stars” - Large star above (Star in the East)

Benches provide seating for contemplation

[BoddaH1994]

8 hours ago, Timchat2 said:

I've noticed that too. Some guests seem to treat the vocalists as a TV running in the background, which is a shame since Sounds of the Nativity has perhaps the strongest performers in the park.

I have always found the similar situation to be kind of a lose-lose for the Festhaus too. I love the idea of shows in there, but there will always be the crowd of people who want to see the show but can’t find seats because of all the people eating and the crowds that goes to eat and socialize with their group but can’t because a show is going on. I’m grateful that we have such a large venue, but there will always be that aspect that makes the situation a little weird.

[BeeastFarmer]

@brenthodge awesome ideas!  It will be interesting to see if any of these are implemented.

I do think there would be pushback from the vendor villiage folks.  They want the area with the highest traffic flow, so I doubt they will move it anytime soon.

[brenthodge]

35 minutes ago, BeeastFarmer said:

@brenthodge awesome ideas!  It will be interesting to see if any of these are implemented.

I do think there would be pushback from the vendor villiage folks.  They want the area with the highest traffic flow, so I doubt they will move it anytime soon.

Another way to look at it is, if they made it a true “artisan village” with a tree, cohesive decor etc, instead of a thing you just walk by on the way to something, it might actually do better. I’ve worked retail so many years and had managers tell me to put things right at the entrance because it’s got the higher traffic, and sales die because tons of people are just walking by. Sometimes “great traffic” isn’t great for sales. 

[Timchat2]

14 hours ago, brenthodge said:

Main theatre show becomes “White Christmas Dreams” a show with live orchestra, vocalists and dancers that tells the story of a family that experiences the magic of Christmas one winter’s eve.

I've been hoping that the newer show "Home for the Holidays" from Knott's Merry Farm will replace Charlie Brown's Christmas Spectacular (which itself is a modified version of a Knott's show) at the Kings Island Theater. While I enjoy the energy of individual dance segments Christmas Spectacular has a slightly awkward pace. If Tinker's Toy Factory can't happen in there for whatever reason it would be nice for the Kings Island Theater to have a proper large-scale holiday production in the vein of Christmas in the Smokies and I think Home for the Holidays could potentially be that kind of show.

[brenthodge]

8 hours ago, Timchat2 said:

I've been hoping that the newer show "Home for the Holidays" from Knott's Merry Farm will replace Charlie Brown's Christmas Spectacular (which itself is a modified version of a Knott's show) at the Kings Island Theater. While I enjoy the energy of individual dance segments Christmas Spectacular has a slightly awkward pace. If Tinker's Toy Factory can't happen in there for whatever reason it would be nice for the Kings Island Theater to have a proper large-scale holiday production in the vein of Christmas in the Smokies and I think Home for the Holidays could potentially be that kind of show.

The proposed “White Christmas Dreams” is actually that show. I just “renamed” it to fit the theme of the area. I really tried with that list to use existing elements and entertainment so it wasn’t a fanboy wish list that could never happen LOL! 

[super7]

It’s Winterfest.   It’s a shame they don’t have a purely winter, non holiday themed show (ie winter music not Christmas music) 

The summer show in the bandstand in 2021 Center Stage Live was one of the best combinations of choreography, vocals and live music the parks has ever had.  It was well choreographed and produced.    It’s a shame they don’t use that same talent for a winter version. 

[brenthodge]

1 hour ago, super7 said:

It’s Winterfest.   It’s a shame they don’t have a purely winter, non holiday themed show (ie winter music not Christmas music) 

The summer show in the bandstand in 2021 Center Stage Live was one of the best combinations of choreography, vocals and live music the parks has ever had.  It was well choreographed and produced.    It’s a shame they don’t use that same talent for a winter version. 

Ok. First it’s “Winterfest” only in name. It’s clearly a Holiday event and second… playlist of winter themed non holiday songs please? Ice Ice Baby? 

[standbyme]

5 hours ago, super7 said:

It’s a shame they don’t have a purely winter, non holiday...(ie winter music not Christmas music)  

You have me intrigued also...what are some of the songs that you are thinking of? 

[DoomPlague]

The "winter music" suggestion strikes me as odd too. The park probably has to tread a fine line anyways with so many people afraid that Christmas is being taken away from them and those people will flip if they see as much as the wrong color cup.

Since I haven't been to Winterfest since the 90s...

What kind of crowds would be expected tonight versus Sunday? Does it change during the month? I imagine FOF and MT will have packed lines since they're the only coasters open?

[brenthodge]

Coasters both pretty busy but both have single rider avail if that’s an option for you. Crowds heavier on Fri Sat but all nights a quick drop off right after parade if you can stay later. It’s a BEAUTIFUL night so I’d expect a pretty decent crowd, but it an event that feels better with a healthy amount of people around. Have a great time! 

[FUN&ONLY!]

41 minutes ago, brenthodge said:

Coasters both pretty busy but both have single rider avail if that’s an option for you. Crowds heavier on Fri Sat but all nights a quick drop off right after parade if you can stay later. It’s a BEAUTIFUL night so I’d expect a pretty decent crowd, but it an event that feels better with a healthy amount of people around. Have a great time! 

It is interesting that you mention that Winterfest feels better with a decent crowd because I completely agree. I feel like everyone wants Kings Island to be completely dead when they visit, but even in the summer, I feel like when Kings Island is dead, the atmosphere and excitement are lowered tremendously. Call me crazy, but when I go to Kings Island, I prefer there to be some crowds, especially for an event like Winterfest.

[brenthodge]

3 minutes ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

It is interesting that you mention that Winterfest feels better with a decent crowd because I completely agree. I feel like everyone wants Kings Island to be completely dead when they visit, but even in the summer, I feel like when Kings Island is dead, the atmosphere and excitement are lowered tremendously. Call me crazy, but when I go to Kings Island, I prefer there to be some crowds, especially for an event like Winterfest.

Even last sat about 8 or so before the parade brought everyone back together it was looking a bit “depressing” as people had all dispersed to shows, food lines etc and the midways of Planet Snoopy were getting bare. 

[brenthodge]

I love that mystic gets into the act, but the decor is actually way too pretty for an abandoned lumber mill. I’d suggest use the trim somewhere else in river town. Maybe in my “Homespun Holidays” area and instead use tangled C9 light strings that are glitching and look like they are shorting  out. Maybe some trim like from tinsel town, but aged as well. Why are there beautiful trimmed wreaths with white lights in a haunted shed? Old bubble lights, flickering light, shorting out blowmolds and PLEASE give us Krampus on the screen. And changing the name to “Merry Timbers” is just silly. I’d suggest Mystic Christmas. This is one place where the decor could really be used to tell the story instead of just tacked on pretty decorations. 

[BeeastFarmer]

Have the really done a Winterfest name to Merry Timbers?

[brenthodge]

I think that was an “unofficial” spiel change. LOL

[Timchat2]

The new Four Drummers Drumming is pretty great! The entire show has a lot of energy and seems to really get the crowd involved. Major props to all involved!

[MDMC01]

10 hours ago, brenthodge said:

Old bubble lights, flickering light, shorting out blowmolds and PLEASE give us Krampus on the screen.

I was so afraid something like this was going to happen the first year Winterfest came back and Mystic Timbers was one of the available rides.

-MDMC, who was afraid of Santa as a kid

[super7]

On 12/3/2021 at 10:41 AM, brenthodge said:

Ok. First it’s “Winterfest” only in name. It’s clearly a Holiday event and second… playlist of winter themed non holiday songs please? Ice Ice Baby? 

There are things "winter" about the event that have nothing to do with the holidays at the event.   Many of the roaming characters are winter themed like Jack Frost, etc.  The Ice Action Zone is non-holiday themed except the Jewish light ups they threw in there this year.   Area 72 is non-holiday.   The back walk with the blue lighting that features the ice king and queen is not holiday.  

Eftling is located in the Netherlands, and is open year-round.  They have a winter event called Winter Eftling.     If Carowinds and Kings Dominion being open until Jan 9 is an experiement in extending the event, this can be done with more winter theming at the event.  Christmas music gets really old fast after Christmas day.   Even Winterfest beginning Jan 26 feels like a huge leftover with the Christmas shows still playing.