New Coaster 2024?

[WoodVengeance]

18 minutes ago, rlentless said:

Just a thought . . turn The Vortex area into a lake (return of Swan Lake).  Add a flat or two, restaurant, shops, ie . . another Adventure Port like area.

Build the new coaster in Action Zone.  I do not think we can get two 25 million coasters for both areas.

Not unless Kings Island waits 4-5 years after The Vortex replacement to do the new Action Zone coaster or vice-versa.

[SmartCat7162]

Instead of a new attraction they should repave the parking lot!

[Orion-XL200]

On 10/6/2023 at 3:03 PM, SmartCat7162 said:

Instead of a new attraction they should repave the parking lot!

They did half....so half an attraction and then remaining half of the parking lot.

[jbeal07]

I know it probably wouldn’t happen but since Cedar Fair is working with Vekoma again, I love the idea of a Vekoma Launched Flying Coaster like F.L.Y. at Phantasialand. It sounds like it has been pretty popular and the capacity is much better than any other flying coaster model. Obviously I think its popularity is greatly helped by the amount of theming that went into it and it’s interaction with the land it’s in.
 

If King’s Island did go for the Vekoma Flyer, I think they should transform the old Vortex plot, Backlot Stunt Coaster, and the end of Coney Mall into a new mini land, similar to what they did with Adventure Port. I think a 50s theme would work best given the 50s style diner is already down there. I saw an idea tossed around on another thread about retheming Backlot Stunt Coaster into something themed to Route 66 and I think that would fit well in this kind of area. The new flying coaster could be themed around aviation in the 50s, which was the “golden age of air travel”, and should feature good interaction with the scenery and guests while also giving good photo opportunities, similar to Vortex. It should also obviously include a few inversions though I would not want this to be the focus. This would give King’s Island another desperately needed launched coaster with a gimmick that could make it highly marketable and an unique ride experience to the region. It would add to the inversion count of KI, which has been down ever since the removal of Vortex. It would also enhance the park’s aesthetics and theming and could maybe end up being the standout coaster KI needs.
 

Ultimately, this is just a pipe dream but I would love to see this in the future.

Edited October 12, 2023 by jbeal07

[Tr0y]

4 hours ago, jbeal07 said:

I know it probably wouldn’t happen but since Cedar Fair is working with Vekoma again, I love the idea of a Vekoma Launched Flying Coaster like F.L.Y. at Phantasialand. It sounds like it has been pretty popular and the capacity is much better than any other flying coaster model. Obviously I think its popularity is greatly helped by the amount of theming that went into it and it’s interaction with the land it’s in.
 

If King’s Island did go for the Vekoma Flyer, I think they should transform the old Vortex plot, Backlot Stunt Coaster, and the end of Coney Mall into a new mini land, similar to what they did with Adventure Port. I think a 50s theme would work best given the 50s style diner is already down there. I saw an idea tossed around on another thread about retheming Backlot Stunt Coaster into something themed to Route 66 and I think that would fit well in this kind of area. The new flying coaster could be themed around aviation in the 50s, which was the “golden age of air travel”, and should feature good interaction with the scenery and guests while also giving good photo opportunities, similar to Vortex. It should also obviously include a few inversions though I would not want this to be the focus. This would give King’s Island another desperately needed launched coaster with a gimmick that could make it highly marketable and an unique ride experience to the region. It would add to the inversion count of KI, which has been down ever since the removal of Vortex. It would also enhance the park’s aesthetics and theming and could maybe end up being the standout coaster KI needs.
 

Ultimately, this is just a pipe dream but I would love to see this in the future.

Welcome to KIC!

[DispatchMaster]

A B&M dive coaster seems like a natural fit for The Vortex site, given the elevation change.

[WoodVengeance]

3 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

A B&M dive coaster seems like a natural fit for The Vortex site, given the elevation change.

I do think a B&M Dive would look really good on that plot, they could have the lift hill and turn into the drop mimic the lift hill and drop on Vortex. However, I just don't know if Kings Island would want a B&M Dive considering Valravn is in the same state and apparently Cedar Fair stated they wanted to add unique attractions to their parks. For a new B&M, it seems a B&M Surf Coaster would be a good option for that as it's a new and unique model that doesn't have anything like it nearby.

[Aaron88stang]

What about have B&M recreate The Vortex layout with a sit down or floorless coaster? 

[SonofBaconator]

1 hour ago, WoodVengeance said:

I do think a B&M Dive would look really good on that plot, they could have the lift hill and turn into the drop mimic the lift hill and drop on Vortex. However, I just don't know if Kings Island would want a B&M Dive considering Valravn is in the same state and apparently Cedar Fair stated they wanted to add unique attractions to their parks.

To me that’s like saying Raptor and Banshee can’t coexist in the same state. I think Valravn was made just to have another 200fter that broke records at the time. With Steel Vengeance and Top Thrill 2 coming along, Valravn has sorta fallen into the “part of the collection” category imo.
 

I think we could have a dive of our own, if it’s more like Steel Menace where it’s more focused on inversions over height. If you go with a 6/7 seater dive, you could get away with standard B&M track so you could put more money into length/ inversions. If you could get a mini dive that squeezes out 5/6 inversions, you’d have a suitable Vortex replacement while offering the dive aspect.

[DispatchMaster]

I admittedly don't know the context, but I don't really put much weight in any "unique attractions" comments. Cedar Fair's MO has been that if an attraction fills a hole in a park's lineup they'll add it regardless of similarities to another park.

The only concern I have with B&M dive coasters is capacity, so while I'd personally prefer to see a wing coaster (GK at CP has monstrous capacity), it just seems like a dive coaster is a better fit for that spot. Capacity is also the reason why I think it'd be a mistake to go with anything other than the 10 seat wide model at a park the size of KI.

[SonofBaconator]

7 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

Capacity is also the reason why I think it'd be a mistake to go with anything other than the 10 seat wide model at a park the size of KI.

Valravn and Yukon Striker have the 8 row models and they have similar attendance. I see your argument for higher capacity trains- if you want with 7 seaters, you can use the standard B&M track over the larger ones that you see on the 8/10 seater coasters. 7 seater vs 8 seater trains is a difference of 3 people which, in my opinion, isn’t a huge loss in ridership….especially if the money you’d be spending on wider track would instead be going to more inversions or longer track length.

[Tr0y]

If it was my choice. I’d like to see the park focus more on building indoor coasters. That way if they do go to year round ops. There will be a decent lineup regardless of weather. 

At the end of the day I’d rather see the park get the best bang for the buck coaster wise. Filling a hole in the lineup just to fill a hole doesn’t always produce the best results.

**cough cough** Orion.

[Orion742]

37 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

I admittedly don't know the context, but I don't really put much weight in any "unique attractions" comments. Cedar Fair's MO has been that if an attraction fills a hole in a park's lineup they'll add it regardless of similarities to another park.

The only concern I have with B&M dive coasters is capacity, so while I'd personally prefer to see a wing coaster (GK at CP has monstrous capacity), it just seems like a dive coaster is a better fit for that spot. Capacity is also the reason why I think it'd be a mistake to go with anything other than the 10 seat wide model at a park the size of KI.

This is as of recently. In 2022 earnings call CF stated they were looking to add more unique attractions to their parks. The attractions that were added prior to 2022 was not driving up attendance the way they wanted according to CF. That’s why recently we have seen so many unique additions to CF parks.

The only reason they added Iron Menace to DP is because it is unique because there is no dive coaster anywhere near there. And notice it’s a narrow track dive coaster so even more unique. My point is CF is taking a different direction in the attractions they are adding instead of plain launch coasters or hyper coasters, we are seeing more unique rides like the world’s first ground up Titan track coaster aka Zambezi Zinger. That is the type of rides CF is looking for.

[WoodVengeance]

1 hour ago, SonofBaconator said:

Valravn and Yukon Striker have the 8 row models and they have similar attendance. I see your argument for higher capacity trains- if you want with 7 seaters, you can use the standard B&M track over the larger ones that you see on the 8/10 seater coasters. 7 seater vs 8 seater trains is a difference of 3 people which, in my opinion, isn’t a huge loss in ridership….especially if the money you’d be spending on wider track would instead be going to more inversions or longer track length.

Also, I believe the reason we don't see 10-seater dive coasters anymore is because of the vest restraints requiring wider seats.

[SonofBaconator]

5 hours ago, Orion742 said:

This is as of recently. In 2022 earnings call CF stated they were looking to add more unique attractions to their parks. The attractions that were added prior to 2022 was not driving up attendance the way they wanted according to CF. That’s why recently we have seen so many unique additions to CF parks.

A perfect example are the coasters that Canada’s Wonderland pitched to their fans: two were wing coasters (one interacting with Wonder Mountain and the other being music related) and one being a Zambezi Zinger type GCI.
 

I have no doubt CF wants to disperse unique rides across the chain. “Unique” is a subjective word though. To someone who lives in KI’s target regions, a dive is likely to be considered unique as the closest one outside of Sandusky is in Virginia. 
 

If they want to give KI something that’s “unique” they’d have to give them a spinner, a surf, or something from Vekoma or another manufacturer. The problem is, the park has a gap that it needs to fill with a looping coaster that sits above the track, in that case the main “unique” option that would excel would be a mini dive with at least 5 inversions. I think if you wanna give us something truly unique you replace Invertigo and Congo with a Surf but then we’d have so many B&Ms people would be in an uproar.

[WoodVengeance]

4 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

I think if you wanna give us something truly unique you replace Invertigo and Congo with a Surf but then we’d have so many B&Ms people would be in an uproar.

I feel like a Surf Coaster would probably be unique enough from other B&M models that the general public wouldn't really bat an eye over it being a fourth B&M. I've seen many comments from people who have ridden Pipeline at SWO, and they usually rave about how unique the ride experience is from anything else they've ridden. Keep in mind, SWO is a park that already has four B&M coasters and is about to get a fifth next year.

[kirbias1]

1 hour ago, WoodVengeance said:

I feel like a Surf Coaster would probably be unique enough from other B&M models that the general public wouldn't really bat an eye over it being a fourth B&M. I've seen many comments from people who have ridden Pipeline at SWO, and they usually rave about how unique the ride experience is from anything else they've ridden. Keep in mind, SWO is a park that already has four B&M coasters and is about to get a fifth next year.

IMO Pipeline was very underwhelming. Capacity isn't so great as well. I think a flyer in front of park would be unique and fun.

[DispatchMaster]

On 10/13/2023 at 12:58 PM, SonofBaconator said:

7 seater vs 8 seater trains is a difference of 3 people which, in my opinion, isn’t a huge loss in ridership….especially if the money you’d be spending on wider track would instead be going to more inversions or longer track length.

Going with 8-wide means a train capacity increasing by more than 14%, which is not trivial. Let's say that, over the course of a season, 1 million guests ride Dive Coaster 1, which has the 7-wide trains. Dive Coaster 2, with its 8-wide trains, can accommodate an extra ~140,000 guests per season, which, over the course of 30 years, turns into ~4.2 million extra guests.

As for any savings on the narrower track, you're talking about a one time cost, which is far less of a concern compared to operating cost, and I'd be surprised if the operating costs between a 7- and 8-wide train didn't round to zero, so you're basically getting a substantial reduction in cost/rider (the primary metric of attraction value) for free.

And regardless, I don't think any park going with the 7-wide trains would be able to justify rolling any savings on track into additional elements. First of all, dive coasters are already popular enough despite their comparatively short length, and second, it's my understanding that dive coasters' trains lose a lot of energy to wind resistance, such that it may not even be possible to add many elements. And while it's true that a 7-wide train would have less wind resistance than an 8-wide, it's also true that a 7-wide would have less momentum as a result of less mass compared to an 8-wide.

Just look at Valravn at Cedar Point, which is more than ~30% taller than GateKeeper, yet is ~18% shorter in track length, and they both come into the brake run at around the same speed. 

[SonofBaconator]

Something I thought of yesterday that I would like to get everyone’s opinion on. When I go to Cedar Point, I often go for experiences that I can’t necessarily get back home. These rides include Steel Vengeance, Maverick, Valravn, and GateKeeper (also TTD when it was open). Of course I ride the other attractions at the park, but what I listed are typically immediate priority. I hope that whatever we get covers at least of the experiences that these rides offer: a 90 degree drop, near miss elements, quick transitions, multiple smooth inversions- anyone of these would be great.

[WoodVengeance]

43 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

Something I thought of yesterday that I would like to get everyone’s opinion on. When I go to Cedar Point, I often go for experiences that I can’t necessarily get back home. These rides include Steel Vengeance, Maverick, Valravn, and GateKeeper (also TTD when it was open). Of course I ride the other attractions at the park, but what I listed are typically immediate priority. I hope that whatever we get covers at least of the experiences that these rides offer: a 90 degree drop, near miss elements, quick transitions, multiple smooth inversions- anyone of these would be great.

I do think it's likely we may very well see a new coaster with near-misses, quick transitions, and/or multiple smooth inversions, but I don't think we would see something that's like an exact replica of a coaster that already exists at Cedar Point. I think Cedar Fair does want to have the coaster lineups for Kings Island and Cedar Point as different from each other as possible, since it helps give people more reasons to visit both parks. That's not to say it's unlikely Kings Island would get a coaster model that already exists at Cedar Point, as Banshee was added to Kings Island when Cedar Point already had Raptor. However, it is worth noting that these two coasters were built 20 years apart and that definitely does become apparent if you look at how the two rides differentiate from one another. (Raptor being more snappy, while Banshee is more graceful. Raptor having traditional OTSRs, while Banshee has vest restraints. etc.) Even if they're both the same model, they do feel like completely different rides. (Also, Inverts are just so common that I don't really think Cedar Fair really cared if they built a second one in Ohio)

Even if Kings Island gets a coaster model that Cedar Point has, it's likely it would have some sort of key difference or marketing draw to help set it apart from its counterpart at Cedar Point. Take a Dive Coaster for instance. If Kings Island wanted to add a Dive Coaster in the future, they may look to put a beyond-vertical drop on it (like Dr. Diabolical's Cliffhanger or Iron Menace) and/or add different elements to help differentiate it from Valravn. Either that or they go with a completely different ride model/manufacturer to help it stand out even more.

[Orion742]

14 hours ago, WoodVengeance said:

I do think it's likely we may very well see a new coaster with near-misses, quick transitions, and/or multiple smooth inversions, but I don't think we would see something that's like an exact replica of a coaster that already exists at Cedar Point. I think Cedar Fair does want to have the coaster lineups for Kings Island and Cedar Point as different from each other as possible, since it helps give people more reasons to visit both parks. That's not to say it's unlikely Kings Island would get a coaster model that already exists at Cedar Point, as Banshee was added to Kings Island when Cedar Point already had Raptor. However, it is worth noting that these two coasters were built 20 years apart and that definitely does become apparent if you look at how the two rides differentiate from one another. (Raptor being more snappy, while Banshee is more graceful. Raptor having traditional OTSRs, while Banshee has vest restraints. etc.) Even if they're both the same model, they do feel like completely different rides. (Also, Inverts are just so common that I don't really think Cedar Fair really cared if they built a second one in Ohio)

Even if Kings Island gets a coaster model that Cedar Point has, it's likely it would have some sort of key difference or marketing draw to help set it apart from its counterpart at Cedar Point. Take a Dive Coaster for instance. If Kings Island wanted to add a Dive Coaster in the future, they may look to put a beyond-vertical drop on it (like Dr. Diabolical's Cliffhanger or Iron Menace) and/or add different elements to help differentiate it from Valravn. Either that or they go with a completely different ride model/manufacturer to help it stand out even more.

I think our next coaster will definitely be a thrill coaster with the addition of Snoopy’s Soap Box Racers. I think it’s highly likely it comes in 2026. With an outside shot of 2025. With 10 of our 15 coasters (including SSBR) being 48 inch height requirement or lower I think the park will focus on something that doesn’t have to have a 48 inch height requirement. If it comes with it that will be a bonus but I don’t think that is what the park will be focusing on.

[Shawn Meyer]

On 10/27/2023 at 10:34 AM, Orion742 said:

With 10 of our 15 coasters (including SSBR) being 48 inch height requirement or lower.

Forgive me, but what does that stand for? SSBR?

[WoodVengeance]

28 minutes ago, Shawn Meyer said:

Forgive me, but what does that stand for? SSBR?

Snoopy's Soap Box Racers.

[marineman]

I am very disappointed in the SSBR (now that we've established that acronym, lol), mostly because my fear is KI will use it to delay building anything significant for at least 2 years. I was really, really hoping for a big, legit 2025 coaster, but I certainly wouldn't bet on that now despite a couple years of rather uneventful releases in the ride department. I mean, the barrel ride? Really!?!?

Speaking to The Vortex plot, it doesn't have to be a very small coaster. There a lot of woods to the far side that could be used, up to and including the area between Beast, Racers, and Orion with a clever track layout. There's also a big plot to the other side of The Beast, all the way over to White Water Canyon and Mystic Timbers that wouldn't be totally off limits with some creativity (though they won't do it). KI has just been stuck in a B&M rut and they suck at compact coasters (aside from dives, which are largely not very good IMHO), but plenty of companies have made very good rides that would easily fit that space. RMC (albeit an unlikely candidate), Mack, Vekoma, S&S, and even Zamperla. I really hope they go a different direction than B&M for whatever the next ride i, especially in that plot. We could do so, so much better with it.

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed SSBR isn't ruling out a '25 project too, but if I were one to bet, I'd say it probably does.
 

[Orion742]

49 minutes ago, marineman said:

I am very disappointed in the SSBR (now that we've established that acronym, lol), mostly because my fear is KI will use it to delay building anything significant for at least 2 years. I was really, really hoping for a big, legit 2025 coaster, but I certainly wouldn't bet on that now despite a couple years of rather uneventful releases in the ride department. I mean, the barrel ride? Really!?!?

Speaking to The Vortex plot, it doesn't have to be a very small coaster. There a lot of woods to the far side that could be used, up to and including the area between Beast, Racers, and Orion with a clever track layout. There's also a big plot to the other side of The Beast, all the way over to White Water Canyon and Mystic Timbers that wouldn't be totally off limits with some creativity (though they won't do it). KI has just been stuck in a B&M rut and they suck at compact coasters (aside from dives, which are largely not very good IMHO), but plenty of companies have made very good rides that would easily fit that space. RMC (albeit an unlikely candidate), Mack, Vekoma, S&S, and even Zamperla. I really hope they go a different direction than B&M for whatever the next ride i, especially in that plot. We could do so, so much better with it.

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed SSBR isn't ruling out a '25 project too, but if I were one to bet, I'd say it probably does.
 

I wouldn’t say it’s off the table yet because CP added 2 coasters back to back but with 2 maybe more CF parks adding coasters in 2025, I think 2026 is our year. 2024 the focus is on CP and Dorney. 2025 is most likely Canada’s Wonderland and (redacted) with also a shot of Carowinds getting a water related ride of some sort. I think 2026 will be KI and Valleyfair’s year. Personally I think KI is in a test period for their next coaster. I think CF wants to wait to buy more coasters from Zamperla until they see how TT2 turns out and I think KI is waiting to see how Vekoma handles things next year before deciding. We could get anything. The only manufacturer off the table is Intamin.

[SonofBaconator]

To be honest, what’s a ride experience that’s missing from KI? I’m not saying what type of ride, I’m saying what experience- something that delivers something unique. For The Bat it’s the sensation of swinging through the air, for Diamondback it’s floater airtime, you get the picture. 
 

We don’t have an above the track looper which I argue delivers a different experience than an invert. We don’t have anything that gives hangtime (unless you solely count the last inversion on Banshee.) We also don’t have anything that has crazy ejector but I don’t know that we’ll see that since Intamin and RMC are great at that and CF isn’t working with them at this moment.

I feel like when I described what experiences we’re missing (excluding ejector), I’m basically describing a Mack multi launch or a B&M dive.

[Orion742]

1 hour ago, SonofBaconator said:

To be honest, what’s a ride experience that’s missing from KI? I’m not saying what type of ride, I’m saying what experience- something that delivers something unique. For The Bat it’s the sensation of swinging through the air, for Diamondback it’s floater airtime, you get the picture. 
 

We don’t have an above the track looper which I argue delivers a different experience than an invert. We don’t have anything that gives hangtime (unless you solely count the last inversion on Banshee.) We also don’t have anything that has crazy ejector but I don’t know that we’ll see that since Intamin and RMC are great at that and CF isn’t working with them at this moment.

I feel like when I described what experiences we’re missing (excluding ejector), I’m basically describing a Mack multi launch or a B&M dive.

A spinning coaster 100%. Mack extreme spinner can fill all of those gaps. Hangtime, ejector airtime, above the track looping coaster. I’d also like to throw that we don’t offer a modern launch coaster

[DispatchMaster]

18 hours ago, marineman said:

KI has just been stuck in a B&M rut...

B&M delivers exceptionally well built, reliable, and efficient products. So that's a great rut to be stuck in.

16 hours ago, SonofBaconator said:

I feel like when I described what experiences we’re missing (excluding ejector), I’m basically describing a Mack multi launch or a B&M dive.

Or a B&M wing coaster, which would be another good fit for The Vortex plot.

I don't get the desire for a Mack Extreme Spinner. Spinning rides have limited appeal compared to something like, say, Copperhead Strike.

[Orion742]

43 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

B&M delivers exceptionally well built, reliable, and efficient products. So that's a great rut to be stuck in.

Or a B&M wing coaster, which would be another good fit for The Vortex plot.

I don't get the desire for a Mack Extreme Spinner. Spinning rides have limited appeal compared to something like, say, Copperhead Strike.

The problem with getting a B&M wing is GateKeeper is 3 hours away and if we wanted to do a launch to differentiate, Thunderbird is 2 hours away so it wouldn’t be very different from the surrounding area coasters. If we were to get a B&M I think a surf would work really well.

I have heard that Copperhead Strike did not deliver the product CF wanted. It doesn’t have a high capacity and didn’t boost attendance like CF wanted. 

The reason I have been hoping we get an extreme spinner is that there is nothing like it anywhere near here. Sure CP had Wild Mouse but that’s small. We’ve never in the history of KI had a spinning coaster. Silver Dollar City brings in a ton of families but Time Traveler is easily the most popular ride there. And that’s not just capacity. It has 3 trains. I’ve talked to guests and enthusiasts in line who have ridden all the coasters at SDC and 99% of them said Time Traveler was their favorite at the park. During an hour span, me and a couple enthusiasts I met were marathoning it and it was not at all nauseating. Plus you get a different ride experience every time. I even rode when it was off balance and I was the only one in the car and I was spinning like crazy but I got off and didn’t even feel sick one bit.

 

[Tr0y]

1 minute ago, Orion742 said:

The problem with getting a B&M wing is GateKeeper is 3 hours away and if we wanted to do a launch to differentiate, Thunderbird is 2 hours away so it wouldn’t be very different from the surrounding area coasters. If we were to get a B&M I think a surf would work really well.

I have heard that Copperhead Strike did not deliver the product CF wanted. It doesn’t have a high capacity and didn’t boost attendance like CF wanted. 

 

The same could be said about the last B&M coaster Kings Island got, clearly didn’t bring in the attendance, also didn’t even sniff top 10 on the Golden Ticket awards, compared to the other Giga Coasters in the CF portfolio. 
 

I like the idea of branching out with a totally different manufacturer. With the recent resurgence in instillations in the US could CF swallow their pride and dare I say it. Take another shot with Intamin?