Another “I wish I had known this before I bought my Cedar Fair pass” situation

[BoddaH1994]

“An All Park Passport is exactly like a Platinum pass.” 
 

Nope.

[BoddaH1994]

We didn’t forget about you, Gold pass holders!

[Coastercrush]

They didn't limit the preview for steel vengeance, you just had to get a reservation.  They know something.....

[BeeastFarmer]

My take is that this is acceptable. All benefits are park specific.  It sucks, but if they opened it to all, KI passholders could take spots from CP passholders because they are limiting attendees.  Look from a different perspective...if ki had a problematic coaster such as SOB that was closed for 2 years and a fan favorite ( which it wasn't, but it's just an example) that was turned into an awesome RMC or GCI hybrid, thousands would want to ride. If you are one of the most loyal clients of Ki and spend all the money on this pass, you'd be very upset if 15 CP prestige pass folks took a spot away from you.

But, we both know how terrible KI's implementation of this pass level is, so if they had this event, they would probably open it up to silver and above and limit it to 200 registrants. Screw the prestige!  Let them eat yesterday's skyline chili leftovers that have been dumped on the ground by the dumpster and if they are lucky, a staff member will hose the down with reclaimed urinal water!

[Tr0y]

3 hours ago, BoddaH1994 said:

We didn’t forget about you, Gold pass holders!

With the recent news on Tower Topics. I have an Idea were a certain somebody will be getting their season pass at. 

[BoddaH1994]

4 hours ago, BeeastFarmer said:

My take is that this is acceptable. All benefits are park specific.  It sucks, but if they opened it to all, KI passholders could take spots from CP passholders because they are limiting attendees.  Look from a different perspective...if ki had a problematic coaster such as SOB that was closed for 2 years and a fan favorite ( which it wasn't, but it's just an example) that was turned into an awesome RMC or GCI hybrid, thousands would want to ride. If you are one of the most loyal clients of Ki and spend all the money on this pass, you'd be very upset if 15 CP prestige pass folks took a spot away from you.

But, we both know how terrible KI's implementation of this pass level is, so if they had this event, they would probably open it up to silver and above and limit it to 200 registrants. Screw the prestige!  Let them eat yesterday's skyline chili leftovers that have been dumped on the ground by the dumpster and if they are lucky, a staff member will hose the down with reclaimed urinal water!

All benefits are park-specific?

Doesn't sound like it to me.

Unfortunately, this bait-and-switch is as adorable as it is predictable. 

[disco2000]

1 hour ago, BoddaH1994 said:

All benefits are park-specific?

Doesn't sound like it to me.

Unfortunately, this bait-and-switch is as adorable as it is predictable. 

 

caveat emptor

[BeeastFarmer]

6 hours ago, BoddaH1994 said:

All benefits are park-specific?

Doesn't sound like it to me.

Unfortunately, this bait-and-switch is as adorable as it is predictable. 

I understand your viewpoint. My interpretation might be splitting hairs, but it says YOUR benefits CAN be used at other parks.  So if you are a KI PP holder, whatever is offered at KI can be used at other parks.  But different parks can offer home park benefits to their PP holders. 

But, based on the KI implementation of this tier,  it would take a lot of improvement and trust for me to ever buy this pass.

[Maverick28]

Honestly, I think the bigger slight to the Cedar Point Prestige passholders is that they literally only get ONE DAY as an option to preview the ride.  The lesser tier passes get three days to choose from.  Seems like the Prestige passholders should be able to choose from all four days?  

I have always been a Platinum Pass holder through Kings Island.  I actually saw this one coming...and got a little lucky.  They announced the passholder preview event for TT2 some time in the Fall, when KI was still open.  I asked Customer Service at KI if they knew if Gold Pass/All Park Add-On members from KI would be able to go and they couldn't tell me

As a result, and for the first time ever, I bought my season pass through Cedar Point just in case - though that almost backfired on me with the "parking isn't free with All Park Passport" scare!

We'll see if I get lucky and get a spot to preview TT2.

[BoddaH1994]

If you’ve ever needed a testament to not buy your pass in the fall and wait until you see the product you’re actually getting, here you go.

[Tr0y]

You could purchase a Summer Pass and make the initial payment of $33.80 to attend the event. Then proceed to cancel your Summer Pass afterwards. 

[disco2000]

3 hours ago, Maverick28 said:

Honestly, I think the bigger slight to the Cedar Point Prestige passholders is that they literally only get ONE DAY as an option to preview the ride.  The lesser tier passes get three days to choose from.  Seems like the Prestige passholders should be able to choose from all four days?  

I have always been a Platinum Pass holder through Kings Island.  I actually saw this one coming...and got a little lucky.  They announced the passholder preview event for TT2 some time in the Fall, when KI was still open.  I asked Customer Service at KI if they knew if Gold Pass/All Park Add-On members from KI would be able to go and they couldn't tell me

As a result, and for the first time ever, I bought my season pass through Cedar Point just in case - though that almost backfired on me with the "parking isn't free with All Park Passport" scare!

We'll see if I get lucky and get a spot to preview TT2.

 

Based on past history of how they treat Prestige holders, this seems to be about right  

But as we get closer they will cut off the Prestige holders two hours before the end of the event LOL.

[BB1]

Remember when you could get a Platinum Pass and not worry about your benefits?

Pepperidge Farms remembers

In all seriousness I understand from a logistical standpoint why they’re doing this but also I think from an organizational standpoint communication about perks and benefits have been subpar. This is the second time this year that I know of, that a pass “perk” was ripped due to a clause that frankly feels like it’s being pulled too often. I know there’s great people who work in CF, I worked with them, I know their zeal for the guest experience but botched rollouts like this can seriously affect guest sentiments.

[TombRaiderFTW]

Obviously this is more of the trademark Cedar Fair bait-and-switch, and that's an issue, but I feel like what's bugging me more is how unwieldy of a condition this might be to enforce. Will they be asking for pass numbers at the time of reservation and checking each one against the database automatically to make sure they're Cedar Point passes? Surely they will... but I also wouldn't put it past Cedar Fair to not set that up and make it the poor admissions folks' job to tell KI passholders they're out of luck at the gate.

[Coastercrush]

16 minutes ago, TombRaiderFTW said:

Obviously this is more of the trademark Cedar Fair bait-and-switch, and that's an issue, but I feel like what's bugging me more is how unwieldy of a condition this might be to enforce. Will they be asking for pass numbers at the time of reservation and checking each one against the database automatically to make sure they're Cedar Point passes? Surely they will... but I also wouldn't put it past Cedar Fair to not set that up and make it the poor admissions folks' job to tell KI passholders they're out of luck at the gate.

I highly doubt cf's IT can pull that off

[DispatchMaster]

Anyone calling this a "bait and switch" is just fundamentally detached from reality, so of course the same usual suspects around here are calling this a "bait and switch".

This is an event happening before the park opens for the season. Anyone who expected their KI-purchased pass to get them access to Cedar Point before Cedar Point opened for the season is engaging in willful self-delusion.

But, you know, some folks are always playing the victim, so no surprise that the same usual suspects are playing that role here. It looks exhausting, but to each their own.

 

[TombRaiderFTW]

14 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

Anyone calling this a "bait and switch" is just fundamentally detached from reality, so of course the same usual suspects around here are calling this a "bait and switch".

This is an event happening before the park opens for the season. Anyone who expected their KI-purchased pass to get them access to Cedar Point before Cedar Point opened for the season is engaging in willful self-delusion.

But, you know, some folks are always playing the victim, so no surprise that the same usual suspects are playing that role here. It looks exhausting, but to each their own.

Obviously you aren't here to have good-faith conversations and you'll show me up with a laugh reaction or a reply where you don't actually respond to anything I say and just repeat how entitled or delusional we are for expecting something else, but for what it's worth, you're ignoring a long context of the multi-park Cedar Fair pass not having these kinds of restrictions being added to them. A Platinum pass from one park was entitled to the Gold-level perks from all of them. You could fairly point out that the Gold and Prestige passes with the All Park Passport aren't called Platinum passes BECAUSE the parks want to be able to have these exclusive events, and you might even be correct, but that's simply not how passes with the All Park Passport were advertised when you consider the context of how similar products from the company have worked for 17 years.

Here's how the website currently reads:

Quote

What is the All Park Passport? 

All Park Passport is a premium season pass add-on available for purchase with a 2024 Kings Island Gold or Prestige pass. Instead of purchasing a separate pass product, this add-on now grants you access to all parks in the Cedar Fair family with either a Gold or Prestige pass. Not only that, but your Gold and Prestige benefits are also valid at other parks as well. The All Park Passport can be purchased as an add-on with a 2024 Gold or Prestige Pass.

(Underline emphasis mine. Link.)

Does that automatically mean the pass is good for special events like the Top Thrill 2 preview where park-specific admission is required? To your point, not necessarily. If you think of this legalistically, there's nothing there to imply that parks can't have their own park-passholder-specific events. But the implication is that the status quo is unchanged, and it actually is. Adding in a line elsewhere in the pass page before the 2024 page went live to say that your Cedar Point pass gets you entry to CP passholder-only events would clear up a lot of feelings of being duped--and I daresay even function as an added benefit they could advertise with.

As it stands right now... KI's Passholder Preview Day is the 19th. The text on the event page starts with, "Calling all Kings Island 2024 Silver, Gold and Prestige Season Passholders!" Does that actually mean Kings Island passholders only? It didn't previously--your CF Platinum Pass would get you in, regardless of park. Does it now? The site text does not offer a disclaimer at the bottom such as, "Passes from other Cedar Fair parks are not valid for this event." If KI were to update the page today to say that only KI passholders can attend, they'd be within their rights to do so based on what's in writing, but it's a poor PR move and arguably violates an unwritten contract that no customer had reason to expect would have changed from prior years. "Gold Pass with All Park Passport" and "Prestige Pass with All Park Passport" is not the same product as a "Platinum pass," but apart from the name, what was supposed to clue customers into that difference? It checks out on a technicality, but that's not a great way to run a company. It's giving Kinzel-era, "get such-and-such special offer on the second Thursday of every other October" 2012-FunPerks-reward-level convolution on something that should be very simple and easy to communicate.

For the record, I don't actually care if the parks want to do events that are open to their own passholders. It's a neutral idea to me. I just think that if Cedar Fair is going to go down a new path, folks would digest that change a hundred times better if they were upfront about it at the time of purchase instead of changing things along the way. It's not a bait and switch in the most literal sense of the term, but it does skirt the line.

[Coastercrush]

15 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

Anyone calling this a "bait and switch" is just fundamentally detached from reality, so of course the same usual suspects around here are calling this a "bait and switch".

This is an event happening before the park opens for the season. Anyone who expected their KI-purchased pass to get them access to Cedar Point before Cedar Point opened for the season is engaging in willful self-delusion.

But, you know, some folks are always playing the victim, so no surprise that the same usual suspects are playing that role here. It looks exhausting, but to each their own.

 

Steel vengeance preview was open to all platinum passes.............they started a precedence years ago.  Will other non ki gold+ all parks not be valid for ki preview night?

[DispatchMaster]

8 hours ago, TombRaiderFTW said:

Here's how the website currently reads:

I just don't understand how someone would interpret that description to mean anything other than what is says, which is that you're buying a season pass which grants access to the park(s) during their public operating season(s).

A season pass gets you unlimited access to the park during the public operating season, and in addition to that, upgrading to a Platinum Pass grants additional benefits the pass holder can enjoy during the public operating season. Expecting anything different than what is clearly spelled out in the product description seems foolish, regardless of what the product terms were historically. I can't imagine any first-time pass purchaser reading the purchase description and taking that to mean it also provides access to special or private events. And any long-time passholders would surely be aware of the "unethical bait and switch" tactics the company is so famous for, and would accordingly never make such a silly assumption, right? 

No, instead it's: YOU ARE AN UNETHICAL COMPANY!!! PLEASE TAKE MY HARD-EARNED MONEY RIGHT NOW!!!  

8 hours ago, TombRaiderFTW said:

As it stands right now... KI's Passholder Preview Day is the 19th. The text on the event page starts with, "Calling all Kings Island 2024 Silver, Gold and Prestige Season Passholders!" Does that actually mean Kings Island passholders only?

Yes, because it quite literally says "Kings Island passholders"! Why on Earth would anyone in their right mind think "Kings Island passholders" also includes "Carowinds passholders" or "Toledo Zoo passholders", when it clearly and explicitly states the event is for "Kings Island" passholders? Now, maybe the event will include other CF passholders, but it would be pretty foolish to assume that would be the case based on the description of the event.

8 hours ago, Coastercrush said:

Steel vengeance preview was open to all platinum passes

Yes, and that was clearly stated in the CP Blog:

Quote

The next event is exclusively for 2018 Season & Platinum Passholders.

It states, very clearly, that the event is open to Platinum Passholders, without any further park-specific qualification. But more to the point, there was no indication at the time of purchasing a 2018 pass that the pass would grant access to offseason special events, which, unless I'm missing something, is exactly the case with the TT2 preview.

I've been buying season passes for a long time prior to the last few years. And I never, not once, assumed the pass I purchased entitled me to anything beyond what was explicitly stated in the purchase terms. Other people obviously feel more entitled, but I don't see why that's the vendor's fault.

[disco2000]

I have said it before, but you sure do sound like you are part of the CF legal team 

You miss the ENTIRE point is EVERYWHERE CF has said a "gold pass + all park passport" is equivalent to what a prior platinum pass was.  

Now they have caveated these events that previously included platinum pass holders to exclude what the chain is selling as "equivalent" to a platinum pass.

Had they kept the platinum pass concept, this wouldn't even be a discussion point right now.  

OR had they made this clear at marketing and change of the pass process that any park specific events are exclusive to the gold passholders of said park, then OK.  I suspect they didn't say that because then many would have purchased the pass with CP in anticipation of the TT2 previews.  I figured this is what they would do with the change.

And yet here we are today with them still selling the gold pass with all park passport as being equivalent to a platinum, which they are showing is not the case.

Personally I don't care because I wouldn't go to pass preview for just TT2 and select rides as we know how long those lines would be LOL.

And maybe they should change the wording that you only receive the "special" benefits of your home gold pass for things like preview days as it would maybe manage the crowds just a bit.  But the fact of the matter is they changed the direction 7 months after they started selling the passes touted as "same as platinum"....

So when you gonna direct them to change the FAQ to reflect this? 

caveat emptor

 

 

[BoddaH1994]

2 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

I just don't understand how someone would interpret that description to mean anything other than what is says, which is that you're buying a season pass which grants access to the park(s) during their public operating season(s).

A season pass gets you unlimited access to the park during the public operating season, and in addition to that, upgrading to a Platinum Pass grants additional benefits the pass holder can enjoy during the public operating season. Expecting anything different than what is clearly spelled out in the product description seems foolish, regardless of what the product terms were historically. I can't imagine any first-time pass purchaser reading the purchase description and taking that to mean it also provides access to special or private events. And any long-time passholders would surely be aware of the "unethical bait and switch" tactics the company is so famous for, and would accordingly never make such a silly assumption, right? 

No, instead it's: YOU ARE AN UNETHICAL COMPANY!!! PLEASE TAKE MY HARD-EARNED MONEY RIGHT NOW!!!  

Yes, because it quite literally says "Kings Island passholders"! Why on Earth would anyone in their right mind think "Kings Island passholders" also includes "Carowinds passholders" or "Toledo Zoo passholders", when it clearly and explicitly states the event is for "Kings Island" passholders? Now, maybe the event will include other CF passholders, but it would be pretty foolish to assume that would be the case based on the description of the event.

Yes, and that was clearly stated in the CP Blog:

It states, very clearly, that the event is open to Platinum Passholders, without any further park-specific qualification. But more to the point, there was no indication at the time of purchasing a 2018 pass that the pass would grant access to offseason special events, which, unless I'm missing something, is exactly the case with the TT2 preview.

I've been buying season passes for a long time prior to the last few years. And I never, not once, assumed the pass I purchased entitled me to anything beyond what was explicitly stated in the purchase terms. Other people obviously feel more entitled, but I don't see why that's the vendor's fault.

Fair enough. 

But again, we learned some valuable lessons here. Expect the lessons learned to be articulated on Friday’s Tower Topics. It’ll be interesting to see what Mr. “As adorable as it is predictable” tells you about that. 

[disco2000]

20 minutes ago, BoddaH1994 said:

Fair enough. 

But again, we learned some valuable lessons here. Expect the lessons learned to be articulated on Friday’s Tower Topics. It’ll be interesting to see what Mr. “As adorable as it is predictable” tells you about that. 

Making us wait until Friday lol

[DispatchMaster]

26 minutes ago, BoddaH1994 said:

Mr. “As adorable as it is predictable” tells you about that.

I'm sorry, who are you referring to with this? And why is a throwaway phrase I used to describe whiny enthusiasts being used as that person's moniker?

[Tr0y]

I think we can all agree. $1.29 for a 1 ounce condiment is too steep. 

[BoddaH1994]

57 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

I'm sorry, who are you referring to with this? And why is a throwaway phrase I used to describe whiny enthusiasts being used as that person's moniker?

Someone else who works for the park would say that about the guests when issues or complaints would be brought up in meetings. Extremely disrespectful, but expected out of this person. 

Kind of an “out there” phrase to be repeatedly said by this person and then posted by you. I guess stranger things have happened.

Perhaps the only other person on Earth who would say that phrase was on a cruise when you quoted them with your post. Ask @gforce1994. 

[Tr0y]

I’m sure I’m not the only one who loves a good cruise story. 

[DispatchMaster]

23 hours ago, disco2000 said:

You miss the ENTIRE point is EVERYWHERE CF has said a "gold pass + all park passport" is equivalent to what a prior platinum pass was.  

And it still is, because both provide access to the parks during the public operating season. Nothing has changed at all relative to what the purchase agreement was back in September, October, November, December, January, February, and almost all of March. Nothing.

So considering they are not removing any advertised benefit, how on Earth could anyone in their right mind consider this a "bait and switch"? In order for it to be a "bait and switch" move, there has to be bait, right? And the so-called "bait", in this case, was never announced as a benefit to purchasing a season pass, and still isn't listed as a benefit on the storefront. That some people assumed their pass provided something that was never advertised is their fault, not the parks'.

[disco2000]

^And yet it isn't the same when it comes to passholder preview at CP.

Interesting that you caveat your statement with "Nothing has changed at all relative to what the purchase agreement was back in September, October, November, December, January, February, and almost all of March. Nothing."  

So by stating "and almost all of March" you are admitting they changed the purchase agreement?  If not then why use the phrase "and almost all of March"....

We get it you are their attorney and yes they never stated that passholder preview is a "benefit" of said purchase, but historically they offered a passholder preview without limitation/restriction as to which passholder could attend.  And now they have.

And yes we know about subject to change and past history is no indication of future performance, blah blah blah, but when a platinum passholder for the last 10 years has been able to go to CPs passholder preview and now they cannot after being sold that a gold pass + all park passport is the equivalent to a platinum passholder, I think you are smart enough to realize regardless of the legalize associated with it, that this passholder now feels like they were sold an offering that indeed isn't the same as a platinum pass.

And ironically, the Schlittenbahn parks offer a Platinum pass while the CF "legacy" parks do not, and if you read the screenshot @BoddaH1994 posted, 2024 Platinum passes are accepted at CP passholder preview day, so folks from Schlittenbahn can attend but not folks with a gold + all park passport from any other park than CP...

Certainly this was intentional as CF felt that those from a Schlittenbahn park are less likely to travel to CP for passholder preview than X number from KI...

So this alone shows a Platinum pass is "worth" more or provides additional benefit that the "gold plus all park passport" does not.

And I know you will blah blah blah that they are the same and blah blah blah, but the optics and perception is that there is indeed a difference between the platinum and gold plus all park passport...

And now the chain has potentially set a precedent.  Why would someone from a Dorney or Michigan's Adventure as an example want to renew a gold pass plus all park passport from their park?  Renew at whatever park is getting the new attraction in the off event you are able to travel to a passholder preview?

Granted it may not be a lot of people overall.  But had this information been shared last August, CP could have potentially seen 30,000 or more people opt to renew their pass from CP instead of their "home park" and that could hurt the smaller parks in the chain.

Or maybe that is the plan to be able to justify selling off the smaller parks as part of the merger.....

 

And it are these types of business practices that will cause some to pause and wait until the following season to renew when they know what the offering is being provided, and that cuts into the valuable pre-season sales that the chain apparently relies on in August thru January or so...

[DispatchMaster]

1 hour ago, disco2000 said:

So by stating "and almost all of March" you are admitting they changed the purchase agreement?  If not then why use the phrase "and almost all of March"....

No, I didn't mean to imply they've changed anything, because they haven't! So poor/nonsensical wording on my part in what was an attempt to point out that if you purchased a season pass in October, there was zero indication that these passes provide access to special events outside the public operating season.

And that hasn't changed. Special events have never and are not now advertised on the storefront or season pass pages as a benefit of purchasing a season pass.

1 hour ago, disco2000 said:

...this passholder now feels like they were sold an offering that indeed isn't the same as a platinum pass.

I don't dispute that. I just contend that, first of all, this is primarily the fault of the purchaser, and second, that this is not remotely a "bait and switch", since, for the billionth time, these events were never advertised as a benefit to purchasing a season pass. Anyone believing so was making an assumption. And sure, that assumption was (somewhat naively) based on previous practice, but I just don't understand why someone would make that assumption and then blame the company when their assumption was incorrect.

1 hour ago, disco2000 said:

And ironically, the Schlittenbahn parks offer a Platinum pass while the CF "legacy" parks do not, and if you read the screenshot @BoddaH1994 posted...

I am not following what you're arguing here. What screenshot shows that Schlitterbahn Platinum Pass holders can attend these special events? EDIT - I see it now. 

Finally, that you're repeatedly relying on ad hominem "LOL yur a Cedar Fair lawyer LOLOLOL" nonsense speaks to how flaccid your argument is, in my view.

[disco2000]

Let's try not a wall of text LOL.

• Summer 2023, CF announces and marketed they are doing away with the platinum pass and replacing with gold pass plus all park passport and tout it as the exact same offering as the previous platinum pass and still states that in the FAQ.  For some reason, CF still keeps Platinum passes for the Schlittenbahn parks that are good at all CF parks.
• People buy a gold pass at their home park plus the all park passport expecting that it will be good for all the parks having a passholder preview just like they did with a platinum pass.
• March 2024 CP announces only 2024 Platinimum Pass holders, lifetime pass holders and those with a gold pass from CP can attend passholder preview.  Those with an all park passport where the gold pass is not from CP are not welcome.

 

So as it stands right now:

• Passholders that purchased a 2024 Platinum pass from a Schlitterbahn Park can attend the CP Passholder Preview (those parks still offered platinum).  See block in red below that specifically states 2024 Platinum passes (that are only available for purchase as the Schlitterbahn Parks)....
• Passholders that purchased a 2024 gold pass and all park passport from any park other than CP are not allowed to attend the CP Passholder Preview.

But the FAQ says the all park passport is equivalent to a platinum pass, and yet they are not the same with this example....

Just another of the long line of examples of CF not being able to clearly convey what they are selling....

 

 

And from a Schlitterbahn webpage: