CoastersRZ Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 What I had meant to say is that I was surprised they are not staying open later than midnight! My bad. With the crowds they pull in on Saturday evenings, from my non-professional eye, it would seem like they could bring in more money if they extended their operations by an hour. But as it is now, they will close at midnight, like they have done since 2003. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beastfan11 Posted November 29, 2006 Author Share Posted November 29, 2006 me too.....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Who says I didn't? We're the same age, remember... And, trust me--my life experiences are varied, plentiful, and diverse (and potentially unlawful in a few red states...) Ahhhh, jz we have to hang some time <G> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 What I had meant to say is that I was surprised they are not staying open later than midnight! My bad. With the crowds they pull in on Saturday evenings, from my non-professional eye, it would seem like they could bring in more money if they extended their operations by an hour. But as it is now, they will close at midnight, like they have done since 2003. Everything they do is strategic and comes down to what Net Operating Profit (NOP) they can expect. Even if the crowds are big at midnight, it doesn't necessarily mean that they'll turn any kind of profit between midnight and 1am. Bear in mind, it's EXPENSIVE to run the park, so if the 12-1 is hour filled with patrons, but very few people are playing the games, food, merch, etc., then it's still not worth being open. Now, I don't want to mislead you and say that "PKI/CF is a business and businesses are there to make money" because that's on par with someone saying that humans are on Earth to breathe. Sure, businesses need to make money in order to grow and be successful, but it would be unethical to think that any business is in the business of making money. Cedar Fair is a public partnership, so the future of the company is reliant on a successful stock price. Their decisions are made in YOUR best interest. That's why they are both opening later and they cancelled Winterfest. The more profitable the company is, the better experience they can deliver to you as a patron. It has very little to do with cutting losses and stealing a profit. I'm sure they'd love to have a successful offseason program... that's more profit, it just didn't work out that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 And it also has to do with generating enough income to both make a profit AND pay off the massive debt they incurred in acquiring Paramount Parks. If they only did the former without doing the latter, they wouldn't be around very long. Cedar Fair has always focused on EBITDA, an accounting measure that shows earnings before INTEREST, taxes, depreciation and amortization. That focus may not make as much sense in the coming years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortex Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 I saw some pictures today I was wondering if Kings Island might try to bring back Winter Fest or something like it down the road. The pictures are from Knott's Marry Farms I saw that Kings Island and Knott's used some of same art work on the t-shirts this year for Fear Fest and Knott's Scarry Farms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beastfan11 Posted December 3, 2006 Author Share Posted December 3, 2006 Man Winterfest was fun.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Attack! Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Yep. I just checked the park`s calendar, and they are now slated to open at noon on Saturdays in October. Given the success of the nightly portion, I`m kind of surprised they have extended closing by an hour until 1am. I know there are some issues with minors working that late and all. But, when Fear Fest was a separate gated attractions, its hours were 8pm-1am. With the crowds that they pull in on Saturdays, I`d imagine that the games and merchandise shops would remain fairly busy until they closed. But then again, I haven`t seen any of their numbers. Minors just aren't allowed more than 5 consecutive hours, now that does make shifts a little more complicated with breaks and all, but they can work all night as long as it isn't on a school night which Fri. and Sat. isn't. It is the major minors that have all the rules on them no more than 5 hours consecutively, 8 hours in a day and then the rediculous ones like no highlighters, sissors, and no more than 3ft off the ground that are annoying. Sorry no source but I have a paper KI gave me of all the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Discodude3737 Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 I think Fearfest is here to stay for a while. It seems that Saturdays in October are some of the most crowded days of the entire season. Which, no doubt, is why the park will not be opening until noon on Saturdays in October 2007...at least according to the current plans... That's because the crowds do not come to the park at 10 AM for a Halloween event. The park was incredibly crowded from 2-10 basically every Saturday in October. The noon openings are no doubt a change by Cedar Fair, as Cedar Point has had noon openings for the past several years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Minors just aren't allowed more than 5 consecutive hours, now that does make shifts a little more complicated with breaks and all, but they can work all night as long as it isn't on a school night which Fri. and Sat. isn't. It is the major minors that have all the rules on them no more than 5 hours consecutively, 8 hours in a day and then the rediculous ones like no highlighters, sissors, and no more than 3ft off the ground that are annoying. Sorry no source but I have a paper KI gave me of all the rules. There are no rules (from the state) about highlighters or sissors, etc. This list you have must simply be park generated and seems a little silly. Must be something passed on from Paramount. Hopefully CF will make the needed corrections. There are rules about using things such as slicers and mixers, though. A helpful guide for Minors and Employment in Ohio can be found at: http://wagehour.bes.state.oh.us/w3/webwh.n...52566210046E049 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzarley Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Highlighters? I must really be missing something there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Highlighters? I must really be missing something there... I think that it was meant to be funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Attack! Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Well I was talking about Major Minors which in english is 15 year olds. Sorry for the confusion but I do believe that 15 year olds aren't allowed to use highlighters and maybe sissors but not sure on that one, we always joke about that rule in games because there is so much 15 year olds can't do. Even more aplicable in games we get hit by the scaffalding one in the link below for 15 year olds, they can't climb up the basketball games or up the center game attics. No I couldn't find the highlighter one sorry. http://www.regionalchamber.com/pdf/minorlawsMM03.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 See, when I was at the park we never hired anyone under the age of 16. Thus, I'm not very skilled in the areas of those under 16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Discodude3737 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 From my days as a McDonald's employee, I can say that 15 year olds do not have many hour restrictions during the summer, but during the school year there are a lot. They can't work past 7 on a school night or more than 3 hours on a school night. They can work deep fryers, but not any grills or ovens. They also can't enter into any large freezers/refrigerators. The rules are pretty strict in regards to machinery/cutting tools as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Attack! Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 ^Which as a worker just make your job not as fun cause you want to try new things like the deep friers or the night shift but you can't. On the other hand though I knew a guy who didn't tell he turned 16 cause he didn't want to work nights even though if he told he would have gotten a raise because of it. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorGuy Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 From Gamesguy's post, parks like Dollywood, Wild Adventures, and of course Disney World have no problems with timing to transfer from Halloween to Christmas. Its all in planning. Fearfest takes place in Coney Mall for the most part, and some of Rivertown. Winterfest was mostly International Street. The train was easily transfered, because during Fearfest, you got off before the area they were building the Winterfest stuff, so you didnt see that going on. I think you can easily do both events. Its all in what Cedar Fair wants to do. Lately, they seem to not want to do much, as they are sending all their potential profits over to their competition across the street to The Beach! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Well, I don`t think they are sending their profits across the street to The Beach. Because from what I understand, WinterFest did NOT make a profit last year. I think given the right price point, they could make WinterFest work. There would be logistical issues to overcome that were very visible the last weekend of 2005. It is all up to Cedar Fair if they decide to integrate such a holiday event in the future. I think for right now, they are going to stick to their core season and what they know, given their large amount of debt. When they pay off some of the debt, and are looking for ways to expand their income several years down the road, then they might reconsider having WinterFest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 IF they ever did decide to do Winterfest again, they need to seriously revisit the pricing. To say that Winterfest was not profitable is being very kind. A whole lot of people paying a fair price to get in and then spending a whole lot of money is far preferable to a few people paying a lot to get in and not spending much inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 IF they ever did decide to do Winterfest again, they need to seriously revisit the pricing. To say that Winterfest was not profitable is being very kind. A whole lot of people paying a fair price to get in and then spending a whole lot of money is far preferable to a few people paying a lot to get in and not spending much inside. Which is a pretty basic concept. Why do ya think that CBS/Viacom/Parmount screwed it up so badly when so many of us were screaming it from the mountains. (And not the Paramount Mountains!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Because the park was for sale and it gave them a nice, fuzzy aura to sell to prospective buyers....and/or someone wanted to be sure it did NOT succeed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Because the park was for sale and it gave them a nice, fuzzy aura to sell to prospective buyers....and/or someone wanted to be sure it did NOT succeed.... Considering they absolutely blew such basic marketing and business principals, I'd have to believe it was the later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Attack! Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 From Gamesguy's post, parks like Dollywood, Wild Adventures, and of course Disney World have no problems with timing to transfer from Halloween to Christmas. Its all in planning. Fearfest takes place in Coney Mall for the most part, and some of Rivertown. Winterfest was mostly International Street. The train was easily transfered, because during Fearfest, you got off before the area they were building the Winterfest stuff, so you didnt see that going on. I think you can easily do both events. Its all in what Cedar Fair wants to do. Lately, they seem to not want to do much, as they are sending all their potential profits over to their competition across the street to The Beach! Not sure what you drew from my post, but, keep in mind all of those parks are in different states which is a whole different set of rules sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Excellent point, also those other parks raptor guy mentioned have different staffing conditions and policies. Folks think about it, Cedar Fair just spent 1.2 billion dollars, they're going to want to try and make up for their aquired debt now. Winterfest was not profitable last year, Cedar Fair wants profit and really isnt in a postition to try and gamble again with another winterfest and also has their hands full with assimilating 5 new parks and making it one big family. They'll probably try winterfest again in the future when they have the money to risk on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan73 Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 I really kind of kick myself for missing it last year. I was supposed to go the last time just before they cancelled it (93?), but never made it. Maybe I'm just not supposed to go to Winterfest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldiesmann Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 I don't think it will be back, mainly because they couldn't afford to compete with Holidayfest (which saw an astonishing 52% increase in attendance last year...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KI-ORIG-EMP Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 Yes! I thought those looked fimilar! I am not sure that CF will bring back Winter Fest back for 2007. When I worked in the Call Center, the main complaint was the admission price that was charged. I would have to admit that the price of admission should had been lower. I also think that the parking fee was too much. I remember all the good times of Winter Fest when it first started and enjoying the Christmas shows in the theater. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 Parking Should have been Free for Winterfest and the admission should have been slashed in half. That was really just a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KI-ORIG-EMP Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 Racer open for a winterfest....... are you for real? maybe on days like today, but i have been to winterfest when the wind coming off of the carousel was almost too much. they had lawsuits filed for "unintentional" injuries on SOB last year. How about next year let's invite lawsuits for "frost-bite." Couple of quick questions: - did they announce WF's cancellation before or after the SOB accident? - anyone aware of any "re-theming" going on inside the park right now? A person I know that works in the "offices" at the park said they were on the fence about Winterfest all year and that the SOB incident placed a final spike in the coffin for this year- but that one of Great Wolf's requests from the park was that they have a mid-winter event to help fill rooms in December. I don't know what the legitimacy of all of that is, but it sounds plausible. Great Wolf was the main reason that Paramount brought back WF. That was the info that we were told while I worked in the call center. CF just did not have enough time after buying all the parks as to bringing back WF. They cited the attendance as the main reason for the cancellation but I think the main reason was the turn around that was required after the park closed after the fall and the opening of the new season. I think that Great Wolf will have an impact on CF returning WF for 2007. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 I don't think you will see Cedar Fair, a chain that now charges $70 for a season parking decal for Cedar Point, offer free parking for a Winterfest. Nor do I believe they would slash the previous admission price in half. For these and many other reasons, I suspect it will be quite some time before you see Winterfest again at Kings Island, but I also wouldn't say it never will come back. It may well. The other major criticism I heard for Winterfest is that it should have been included with season passes. If you remember, at first Paramount tried to sell tickets that were only good for a specific day, and tried to make it sound like the event would sellout every night. I actually think they truly thought it would, and planned their expenses in light of that anticipated revenue, which, of course, failed to materialize. As for Great Wolf being a factor, perhaps. Still, Carowinds had Winterfest, too; and they had no Great Wolf planned. It is also good to remember that Cedar Fair was offered an ownership interest in Great Wolf, and turned it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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