Hank

If it doesn't shake, it will break - and adding stiffness to the ride will make it more uncomfortable. However, too much sway will cause problems. It really points to faulty wood and/or not enough support at "critical" points along the circuit. Realizing that wood gets replaced, I would guess that many spots on the ride have had new lumber and may have added lumber installed too. When dealing with something as massive as this, the word "underengineering" comes to mind (if there is such a word). Reminds me of The Bat - only no one suffered injury, only the ride itself got beat up. Can this be fixed? Of course it can - and who knows if ANY OTHER wooden coaster has these problems (the problems just haven't manifested themselves yet). But, with the huge amount of wood used, to be safe, you'd be replacing almost every piece of lumber, or at least all of the "original" lumber. This is expensive, as is demolition, as are lawsuits. The right person to make the corrections doesn't seem to have come around yet. (I could leave my phone number!)

Vortex - 'cause it's sinking. LOL!!!!! (I hope this doesn't start THAT crap again - I'm only joking!)

I'm gonna ask for an SOB shot when I get my H1N1 shot - just in case! I still stick to my opinion that this is a fixable situation, but the right people have yet to come along with key ingredients.

A VERY small park, here In Toledo, Ohio - circa 1965 - had a clone of the Lil' Dipper. It was my first coaster. My father knew the manager of the park and he would give us hundreds of free ride tickets. I must have been on that coaster more than 100 times when I was little (ha, imagine ME little!). Anyway, it was the only coaster my dad would ever ride. Seeing the pics brought back many memories. I hope that it won't get removed because of what happened. I'd love to get over there and ride it.

^ I think George Harrison wrote a song with those words. I still feel it can be fixed. Let me at it!

When the world ends, Vortex will cease - if it doesn't sink into the ground before then, or if no one else gets killed on it, or if Dippin' Dot's decides to pull their cart from next to the exit.......or any other stupid rumor you might have read or heard. Don't worry - be happy!

Seeing that picture of the old trains brought back memories - of being tightly pinned-in to that seat to the point of almost not being able to exhale. I still rode the coaster. I'm just glad I was never stuck on it's circuit. There might have been another law suit!

I got to ride it 3 times. It was very good. The swinging effect was 90 degrees+. It was not as fast as Top Gun/Flight Deck. The fin brakes were on the bottom of the cars and I was told that caused problems - no MCBR. Yes, there were two lift hills. You have to remember that momentum is the reason for that - the coaster was not that tall and the "swooping" effect required deep drops, leaving the trains low to the ground. You also have to remember that it was the first suspended coaster, so there was nothing to compare it to. Since then, there have been others, and they never seem to quite match the "remembered" experiences of The Bat. If it were still around, I don't think it would have the legend status it now carries. And yes, the shock absorbers needed to be replaced quite often because the track was no banked (underenginered).

Many posts ago, I gave a quite lengthy diatribe on what could be done. No comments were ever made about my post, so I quit writing for a while. But, for those who missed it - I suggested adding to the ride, thus making it longer than The Beast, and still using all of what's there. Look back a few hundred posts and read the whole thing.

It's all speculation. No one knows how much each would cost (well, maybe Cedar Fair Exec's). If you were to put in a new ride, well, you know how much those cost.

Like I said - do the math......Tear down, replace = ???????? Fix = ???????? I'm sure the fix will be a lot less - if they do it properly.

I am still keeping to my upbringing that everything can be fixed. To tear it down and build new would cost more than fixing it. Do the math!

I would have said Drop Tower, but it wasn't an option!

Don't say you got a headache on DB or they'll close it down - then there will be 2 SBNO coasters in the park!

One time, while in line for Racer, I overheard a guy trading stocks on his cell phone while in line with his kids. I thought, "God, you can't go one freakin' day without work to enjoy the day with your kids - you HAVE to do THAT!" Anyway, we don't smoke on rides - or throw up, or drink, or fart, or throw objects - you even have to have your glasses secured on some rides or you take them off and put them in a locker - all so that others don't get hurt. And yes, there is a no smoking LAW in Ohio so live with it!

There are no over the shoulder bars shown in the animation POV.

I sometimes think that if they built a ride where every 10,000th rider got injured, there would be people lined up across the park to try to be that 10,000th person. Wait - they already did this....it was called Son of Beast!

^ followed by......"If the coasters here don't do you in, the food prices will".

^ I know that it is more intense than other coasters, but even riding the Blue Streak at CP after they strengthened it a bit made it a lot rougher than usual, causing a bit of pain for me, unlke the year before (this was 2 years ago). So, if they fix it, it should be smoother - but it will require some thinking outside the box. And yes, I , too, will be leary about trying it out again after any modifications. BUT - people should know that any coaster is gonna throw you around a bit and be careful when considering taking a ride on it.

I've said this before - it seems that a lot of people do not realize the cost of things. In this day & age, when a BMW and Mercedes Benz are becoming ordinary everyday cars, I guess I can see why. But, in my day, spending $5 on a BOARD game was considered a lot of money, let alone $50 today on a video game - and people buy those by the dozen! To build SOB it took some bucks and if there's nothing wrong with it, it would be a mortal sin to just destroy it. My backround of 1st generation Americans could repair anything - and that's what may need to be done in this case. Nobody I grew up with threw anything out - they fixed it. And I believe SOB can be fixed too. The REAL problem, and this could happen with any ride, are the people riding it. I know that if I go on a spinning ride I get sick and throw up, so I don't go on them. People should know that a coaster is gonna throw you around - it's not like the thing is out to kill you, but that's the lawyer language coming into play - meaning more lawsuits which are almost always non-credible. Or maybe I should go on a spinning ride, puke at the visitor center, and sue for the overpriced food I bought at the park that never got to nourish my body properly. It should be worth at least a few bucks, minus the 1/3 my attorney will take!

The idea behind building SOB was the loop and the helixes, as if the ONLY good part of The Beast was the helix and in order to one-up it was to install a loop. Not being an engineer, I can't understand why one woodie is smooth and another isn't, but it seems to me that too many untried ideas were used all at the same time - heighth, wide track trains, roughly inexpierenced builders (that's almost "roughly expierenced builders" with it being so rough), loop, speed, almost all circles - it's almost too bad they couldn't have built a coaster that could be "added on to" in future years (yeah, I know it sounds crazy) but little by little adding things one at a time until they reached their desired goal. Now, they have to "back track" (pardon the pun) to get the thing rideable enough so as not to endure the *****ing that goes on or the claims of inury that all too often occur. Think about it....if you tried to build a model of SOB with Knex and you started out simple, and it worked, you could then add features - one at a time - making sure all was ok before proceeding with the next feature. Trims can be installed - but trims can also be removed. Nothing is impossible - even a loop could be re-installed. Lest we not forget, it was a BIG loop - maybe a new one could be smaller and different trains could handle it. With all of the extra land beyond SOB, they could add some straight sections and reduce the intense speed of the rosebowl. The ideas are endless, and since the thing is already built, re-arranging a few things wouldn't be all that difficult or cost all that much. A little thinking outside the box is needed. Please add more ideas as you might envision them.

My belief is that there is nothing wrong with the coaster - it's the people riding it. When it "broke" last time, that was different and it's too bad the loop had to be removed. I see Cedar Fair caught in the middle of a silly lawsuit that will be impossible for the landy & her attorney to prove - due to the length of time it took the lady to complain. My hope is that other "money seekers" and "ambulance chasing lawyers" don't try to pull this crap all the time or ALL amusement parks will be SBNO on a permanent basis!

It was neat to see those map pics. It would be cool to have a small coaster in my yard - even the Ghoster Coaster would be OK with me - but I'm not a mechanic and if it wouldn't run, I wouldn't know what to do. Too bad it's just laying there.

Nelsonville! I know that I don't condone violence either, but it would have been a bad example in front of a bunch of Catholic 8th graders - 90% of them girls. It was just a poopy day.

I had a run-in with a nasty group a few years ago at Cedar Point when I was with my 8th graders - most of them female. There was a group of "gang" members who kept following us around, using all kinds of profanity, pushing their way to get certain seats, and not very well dressed - even for a May day at an amusement park. Now, I am 6' 4" and at the time weighed over 300 pounds and I wasn't about to put up with any of their BS. I didn't do anything until one of them spat at me. I went to the "gang" leader, grabbed him by the throat area of his shirt and told him if he valued his head, he'd better keep his potty mouth closed or I would remove it from his body - permanantly. Just then, security came over and asked what was going on. They took the entire "gang" to the front offices - I had to come along. After talking wth the people in the office and explaining what had been going on, they removed the entire "gang" from the park. Do you know, those jerks waited until we were leaving and were gong to try and start a fight with me - right in front of my students. I was more than ready to take them all on at once - they were all skinny little pipsqueaks - but security came and escorted us to our bus. It really ruined my day, even though the kids tried to cheer me up saying "Mr. R., don't let it bother you - they're just jerks". funny, but every time I think about it, I get upset - and I sorta wished that security never came for the escort. The local Sandusky hospital ER would have had a few extra patients that night - but I probably would not be here right now writing this - I'd be sitting in a cell somewhere in southern Ohio.