Outdoor Man

the same way that 47 years after it's construction, The Beast is still a top 3 (maybe even 1 or 2) at KI- and is usually featured on a majority of their marketing pieces. It always has a wait, high on guest reviews.... and that popularity has endured the pandemic, droughts, hot weather, terrible summers, bad ride attendants, GMs, and countless recessions. It is a a textbook definition of a "Great Coaster". It is remarkable, out of the box, and not available anywhere else. People come, sometimes specifically, to ride the legendary Beast.

LOL... OK- don't rank it. Guessing you're affiliated with the park or draw some sort of income from therein. No other could be that non-objective.

I'm just asking for his ranking. I'd place it 7th or 8th. Not bad. I'm not a coaster enthusiast; just someone that picks and chooses where to spend $. That said, it was the largest investment in park history and they installed a coaster that barely made it to giga status... and does not offer any unique experience that separates it from others in its category.

Rank it. 14 coasters; where do you place it?

Answer my first question instead of commenting on a statement with your own question- where do you rate Orion in the list of 14? Though I will contend that Siren's Curse has sold more daily admissions to curious thrill seekers than Orion has done for KI. Multiple Choice: which would you like installed at KI given the choice: Orion Siren's Curse Voyage Night Flight Expedition Again, it a "good" coaster, but VERY middle of the pack. Not a signature installation you would expect for the largest investment in the park; $30M could have been better spent than Diamondback 2.0.

I'll go with you. Where does Orion fit in this list? This list, by the way was in no particular order- it was just as I could think of them, and I'm probably missing a few notable ones. Top Thrill 2 Millenium Force Orion Diamondback Fury 325 Thunder Striker Pantherion Wrath of Rakasha Yukon Striker Leviathon Behemeth Goliath Apollo's Chariot Mako Don't get me wrong. It's a good coaster, but "middle-of-the-pack"- behind Diamondback. A low bar to clear for the largest investment in the history of the park. My point, instead of Diamondback 2.0, create something truly unique that will sell tickets.

typical guest sentiment. it's a fun ride experience.... and largely one you can find at most other legacy CF and SF parks... including it's own home. Nothing sticks out as a "must spend $$$" investment to go out of your way to experience.

Not much they could do with it than what is already there. If not mistaken, it was designed to be in the San Francisco park and the "just over" giga requirement would have far surpassed anything that is/was currently there. I don't remember why the change. If it had been designed specifically for KI maybe the end result would have been different. But, the investment was already spent and needed a place to go. If it didn't go to KI, then the giga crowd would be claiming a miscarriage of justice. Problem is, now there is a $30M "2.0" version of a coaster already onsite, that may not be taller or faster- but has better elements. My fear is that legitimate installations that will sell tickets will ALWAYS go to Cedar Point- so long as KI remains a Six park. The park will get new, and somewhat innovative, attractions in the future... though they will be "ordinary thrills, available at other parks too." CP will get the innovative investment $'s. Dollywood, on the other hand- installs a $50M investment that WILL sell tickets and be a boon for the Pigeon Forge area for several years.

ok... ANYTHING but Panda Express...

I'll probably regret this, but... what?

I'd personally like to see Panda Express moved elsewhere. I agree that it doesn't necessarily need to have German food... though it IS in the last visages of Oktoberfest and IS in a German themed building. the smell of Panda Express is nauseating and overwhelming when entering the main entrance. Keep LaRosas, but I'm not sure why a place that served: Bratwurst, currywurst, weisswurst, schnitzel, roasted meats, potato specialties, etc.... wouldn't go over well... AND be a MUCH more pleasant smell upon entering. Most of those things are relatively easy to cook.... less overhead. It would NEVER work, but I always thought that it would be interesting to see what could happen if Hofbrauhaus took it over for a season and had the lively atmosphere that they have along with German-themed entertainment instead of, what is usually, a "music review." I would thin year #1 would go over because it would be something new... and something most have never seen.

Couple thoughts: - in the image above- I like the Coney throwbacks in the park- but some of this seems misplaced since "Coney Mall" is somewhere else in the park. I thought they should dismantle one of the original Coney Island entrances from the old park (not sure what they'll be used as now) and reconstruct them at KI.... and build a replica of Moonlight Gardens as an indoor eating experience with a feel like the Grand Pavilion at CP. As for the themed area overhauls listed above... KI has too many "areas". International Street- one of the best environment entrances, but hardly "international" anymore Planet Snoopy- should be overhauled and incorporated into Camp Snoopy Camp Snoopy- great start (will it be expanded?) Action Zone- no cohesive story and has some aging rides in their last stages in prominent locations Octoberfest- basically a German-themed hall with American-Italian as well as Chinese fast food... and a swinging ship Adventure Port- two spanish themed rides... and arguably the best themed ride in the park Adventure Express Coney Mall- annoying pop music with a large scar in the back coming to it's 7th season Rivertown- Nice "rivertown'ish" feel with coasters that point in another direction Area 72- a good start but with a lot of concrete and nowhere to expand. Did I miss any?

I'll be at the Press Conference at the Expo next week. Some of what I've read about what will happen at the Press Conference; that's not how these things work. Largely at these, they have a "Ride Vehicle" covered until the event announcement; unveil it and then reps from SDR and Six will make comments, and "MAYBE" show a video; but in this case it's unlikely... and that'll basically be it. I think this is being done at the SDR booth- not at "IAAPA Central". Their booth is unlike to have a large screen to view it on. I don't think it will go 15 minutes even. They may have a ride vehicle or maybe an animatronic. These Press Conferences aren't for park guests and fans. They're to promote their business and "pound their chest" on what they are doing. I may be wrong, but I've been the EXPO year since 2015, except 2020 (which was canceled)- and this is generally what happens. These are business announcements, not for the park goer.

I have high hopes for this; I believe the Sally Dark Rides has a great team on it and believe it as one of their "Press Announcements" at the IAAPA Expo next week. though I have to agree, much of what I've seen is very cartoonish. I applaud Six management for listening to the "crowd" that has missed this attraction, and SDR grabbing onto it. Though I hope that it doesn't stray so far away from the original concept that it falls flat with the crowd that has clamored for it. Sort of reminds me of the Muppet Theater (RIP) storyline at Disney with all of the details going off the rails. So, with PTON being a "sequel" I hope that SDR is up to the challenge so some lyrics from a Muppets song don't present a self-fulfilling prophecy... We're doing a sequel, We're back a popular demand. C'mon on everybody, strike up the band. We're doing a sequel, That's what we do in Hollywood. And everybody knows, The sequel's never quite as good.

They could make a dent in the debt load if they were able to offload 3-4 "non-core" parks in a package. It may take inclusion of a marquee "core" park to sweeten the deal and bump the price though.

If, by Opening Day, you mean opening day of the park in Spring... I'm going with zero (0). Seems the recent axiom of new attraction opening dates is to be weeks (sometimes months) after the park opens.

So, $40M in 2018- when Orion was ordered- is worth $51M today. What I infer from this is that for the cost of Orion (which is a cut-and-paste "taller/faster" coaster that grows on trees in the CF/Six chain)- KI could have installed a perennial line generator that sells passes and tickets on it's own merit?

For what it's worth, adjusting the hours at Carowinds may not be as off-base as you may think. First, the daytime temperature averages 52-56'ish during the day in December. Not as many NC/SC residents like going out in 30-something temps at night like in Cincinnati. Secondly, it isn't daylight at at 9pm in December like it is in the summer. Sunset in December is similar to Cincinnati: 5:15pm. so, if they close at 7.... that's almost 2 hours of nighttime lights. and more daytime "heat" for ride riders...

Has the park actually come out and said that Tinker has taken a final bow?

I look forward to picking up a copy of one Six Flags' new books coming out later this summer: How to Step on EVERY "Spikes-Up" Rake in the Guest Experience Yard. How to Effectively Burn Bridges: Loyal Guests & Annual Pass Holder Edition. How to lose decades of goodwill in a half Summer

KI only got Orion because of a zoning issue in CA, if not mistaken. Though it does check "giga" off the list, it's essentially an upgraded Diamondback layout. Adventure Port is a nice visual upgrade to the area, but one has to wonder why they didn't proceed with taking Festhaus and Viking ship along with it. Those are the only vestiges of Oktoberfest left- and even so- the German themed Festhaus has no German Food and has a US Country Music review as entertainment. So, instead of bringing together two concepts into one, they created another section of the park. Camp Snoopy looks great, but why do we need Camp Snoopy and Planet Snoopy? Pick a lane; finish what you started. I'm rather ambivalent about the waterpark. On one hand, a smaller, family owned park in southern Indiana has three outstanding water coasters... and there could be a legitimate debate as to whether KI's advertised "new" water coaster qualifies as one. This isn't to demean KI.... it really isn't. BUT, they can do MUCH better than they have. Honestly, though, I'd settle for a few more season employees to keep grounds clean right now.

Update from June 16: dangling lights still dangling and tables still gross. Granted people are gross and need to learn to clean up after themselves... that said - this smeared material had dried long ago... Six has very intelligent/talented people in the C-Suite and they'll figure this out, but at what cost to the guest experience and loyalty... Attention to detail is not there.

I know there is a "Fun TV" screen in the queue already; that's largely what I was referring to because the bright, cheer'y screen and content clash 1000% with the theme of, not only the ride, but the line queue. Very rarely does the end product look like the concept. When PT was installed, it was the 1991/1992 recession period = belt tightening for new attractions. My concern is that if budgets continue to be tight, not because of economy- but because of the merger (and this isn't going to resolve by 2026 construction schedules) that they'll push forward because they "have to have a new ride" and half-a## it. I say don't install it, use a fraction of the funds to spruce up the surroundings, hire some MUCH NEEDED staff, and do it right in a year or two.

A Sally Dark Ride/Vekoma collaboration can be found with "Uncharted, The Enigma of Penitence" at PortAventura World in Spain. It's an interesting and immersive concept. My guess is that said attraction could/would replace the aging Boo Blasters ride. That space spent: 12 seasons as the "Enchanted Voyage" 7 seasons as the "Smurf's Enchanted Voyage" 11 seasons as "Phantom theater" 8 seasons as "Scooby Doo"- and if it goes here 16 seasons as it's worst iteration as "Boo Blasters." I have high hopes, but the full on conversion of Kings Island to being just a "corporate park" in the chain doesn't give me much hope for such a concept on that scale. If so, they'd have to re-inhabit the entire building to fit it all. And even if they did, they'd mess with the theming and mystique by placing one of those stupid "FUN-TV" screens in the line queue, or whatever it's called these days. Budget contraints would cut off important elements of a "great" attraction and it would just come off as "good". If KI is to be hamstrung with thinning budgets, I'd settle for existing park enhancements/refurbishments and sufficient staffing to present a complete park with clean thoroughfares, well managed trash cans, restrooms that you don't feel like bathing in Chlorox after using, food tables that get wiped off more than once a day, etc. to guests who would pay a $90 gate price. OR, maybe an actual water-coaster (see Holiday World for three examples).

I'm putting my weight behind a refresh of an existing attraction that will be a "new" experience in the broader "Snoopy" area. If done well it could be refreshingly creative/innovative. Or... crushingly disappointing. Maybe, just maybe the entire kids area will get a refresh and all come under the Camp Snoopy umbrella as opposed to two areas.