Outdoor Man

In the spirit of the Election Season: THIS for The Vortex plot:

by that logic, Arrow got the original Bat trains right in 1980 too, as much of the train design for subsequent suspended coasters was similar. However, add in the track and the actual operation of the attraction = fail. I'm guessing in the design phase they had IBM punch cards and a modified Pong game for the motion simulation

Park and manufacturer take on some inherent risk when trying to develop "firsts" as well as "taller/faster." For "firsts": the actual unit never operates like it does in a simulation and reality can be counted on for an infinity of unforeseen challenges- some that result in only partial operation before demolition/removal: see the original Bat. Taller/faster... the stress of navigating a 450' tall coaster with a triple launch system on a train may be one that will cause ongoing problems for the life-cycle of the ride. Technology is better, but failure is also an unfortunate reality; and the taller and faster the coaster is- the greater that risk that it never operates as intended.

I never said "I was just kidding". I was immature in my youth; I admit it. I can't compete with you. Never lose track of where that pedestal you stand on is.

I'm sort of surprised to see the 2021 attendance numbers similar to the 2009-2016 numbers. We attended a fair amount in 2021- but until the State of Ohio dropped masking requirements in mid-June of that year the crowds seemed rather light to me.

OK- since we are apparently unfamiliar with the concept of sarcasm or light humor I'll just leave you back to your self-righteous stance. BTW- try to not take yourself so seriously. Carry on 'Dispatch.

It's complicated... That said, let's not equate M&Ms on an "already" filthy theater floor with leftover food, associated condiments, and the occasional shoe print left on a table top surface where people eat. Yes, I was an immature teenager and the thought of such shenanigans occurring does make make me laugh- but the two are not equal instances.

People's audacity to just leave their mess is stunning. Last week I walked a group of 5 teenage boys back to their table to clean it up near Hanks (or whatever it's called now); it looked similar the picture above. I think they may have thought I worked for the park- which, by the way I don't nor ever have- I was wearing khaki shorts and a navy blue golf shirt having just come from a daughter's HS soccer game. Wasn't intentional- just happened to notice after the fact. That said- we got Skyline there after the game and sat at an outdoor eating area of Coney- and got to tell you, I've NEVER seen those tables look so clean. Each of them had just been wiped down- they were still quite wet, but I'll take that over the alternative. Potential HUGE kudos to this site! Perhaps park management is taking note. One more thing, Dispatch... you called me out on something about the movie theaters.... back in the day I took a giant bag of M&Ms (not bought for $10 at the theater- but at a normal price outside) into a dark theater while the previews were running. When it was quiet between previews I intentionally "stumbled/fell" so that the bag would smack the floor and have 100+ M&Ms make their noise rolls down the cheap tile floor. I can still hear the satisfying noise of the M&Ms rolling down the incline.... I don't regret it. If it wouldn't land me in the ER... I'd probably do it again.

I've done business on one level or another with a handful of Disney people and outside of that know a fair number of them for the average schlep from Cincinnati. ALL Disney Cast Members, regardless of status or position is to "pick up" / dispose of trash they may come across while walking from Point A to Point B. If they are wearing a Disney name tag and blind-eye it and it is noticed.... it will be brought to their attention. I had lunch with one of the resort GMs a few years ago and while walking to our table at a quick service location he broke away momentarily to "bus" a table that had been left in horrible conditions. He was the GM, he could have instructed/delegated the task to one of the other employees (nay... Cast Members) nearby- but he did it himself. It's the "little" things.

Going to beat this drum many times until something is noticed- and I know several from the park (& a few from corporate) peruse through these forums occasionally. Yes, I know, I may be an "entitled" Annual Pass Holder- but I'm betting guests who pay retail for admission and food with their discretionary income are more critical observers. I know people are gross and can't be counted on to throw their things away and clean up after themselves, but at some point the park needs to do something- this isn't an isolated observation. In addition to cleaning at regular (or more regular) intervals- maybe install sanitary wipe dispensers near the outside sit-down eating locations so guests can clean it for themselves (since who knows how many times those towels get used and on goodness-knows-what). The picture at the Skyline location, though, is really unacceptable...

I'll jump on. I-Street: a) Symphony music that used to play pre-Paramount days. Extend it to parking lot. It always built a sense of anticipation when walking up. Now the parking lot music is the same as the music in the car you drove up in. REPLACE THE BUILDING BULBS WHEN THEY BURN OUT!!!! and straighten them when they get loose. Attention to detail.... I don't know if I see the Intl. Restaurant making a large comeback. It would't work as a quick service and people just aren't going to drop $$$ for a sit down restaurant there in >2024. Retheme Boo Blasters to a dark ride that improves on Phantom Theater. Camp Snoopy/Planet Snoopy: Great thing started with Camp Snoopy- seems very well conceived. Upgrade the Planet Snoopy areas and merge the two. Rivertown: multi-sensory indoor/outdoor dark ride in the TR building. I can't believe it's sat empty this long. Something that is an experience from the time you enter the line until the ride is over. Coney Mall: Do SOMETHING with Action Theater. Build a replica of Moonlite Gardens as a Coney Mall anchor in the old Vortex queue area and make it a quick service location like the Grand Pavilion at Cedar Point (with food, seating, and meeting/luncheon capabilities)- A VERY nice facility that I was able to explore a few weeks ago with a historical nod to it. This would accomplish many bullet points. Give some TLC and sensory upgrades to BLSC. New Coaster in The Vortex lot that interacts with a stretch of The Beast. A layout with elements akin to Velocicoaster. The Beast coaster isn't the "Beast" itself... since you are on the coaster to watchout for The Beast who "lurks in ambush." This coaster would be the element that ambushes riders on The Beast coaster. Area 72: Good start. Expand the restrooms. Also the ones there, 99.9% of the time, are disgusting. There really isn't a lot of ways to expand there, unless you go under Orion and through to the other side. An S&S Screamin' Swing would be terrifying and could fit into the theming easily. Problem being any view while riding it wouldn't be too scenic. Octoberfest: pull the plug and incorporate into Adventure Port. Adventure Port: Good start. Assume elements of Octoberfest. Keep Adventure Express and it's movable parts in good repair. It's arguably better themed now than it was on it's opening day. Action Zone: Banshee- a brief tunnel with fog would be a great addition. Congo Falls is one repair away from removal, as evidenced by the utter lack of ridership. Maybe remove that and make a nice plaza area for a refurbished Timberwolf area. I'm not sure why that isn't used more. A plaza could be facilitate it as a second gate. Soak City: keep expanding it. Getting a water coaster in 2025; get another body slide in 2026. Water Park expansion costs generally less than dry park expansion and there's really no nearby competition for it. AND... a line entrance for White Water Canyon for those who like to ride... but don't want their clothes to get "THAT" wet on the dry side. Side note: clean the outdoor eating areas more often. much more often. Guests are gross and leave the tables a mess... and they don't seem to be cleaned often. Same with the restrooms. People are gross and trash the toilets, don't flush them, pee on the floor, pee on the seats, etc... This isn't the parks fault... but I always feel like taking a bath in Chlorox after using the restooms.

I didn't see it mentioned by name, but I assume they are referring to Palace Entertainment- ie: Kennywood, Idlewild, Adventureland, Lake Compounce... to name a few?

Picture taken outside Hotel Breakers on the walk near the beach Was up there for an IAAPA event.

Just did a quick glance through the video posted by IndyGuy. Is it just me or are there fewer parade dancers this year as well? Maybe I'm not as observant as I think I am but the individual "groups" seem smaller.

That was a great episode!

A chain with a history of financial troubles marrying a chain that had financial troubles on the horizon... Solution: let's make the Titanic bigger; what could possibly go wrong?

It's amazing how omission of a word changes the whole meaning of a post..... Should have been: "Bigger, taller, faster coasters are not better. Better is better." D'oh!

@DispatchMaster, I still contend- someone wants a Dive Coaster- go to Cedar Point, Dorney Park, or Busch Gardens. All within reasonable distance to KI and would pull Cincinnati-market guests to those parks for visits. Dive Coasters are a unique "thrill" but I they generally last <2 minutes (which includes the lift) and in the US, the most they are themed tends to be a steel structure installed over concrete or a plot of grass. Iron Menace costs CF in the $25 range if not mistaken. Take half of that and install a one-of-a-kind dark ride experience in the "vacant-11-months-a-year" building. Bigger, taller, faster coasters are better. Better is better. Good creativity and story telling sometimes draw better crowds than innovation. See: WDW "It's a Small World". VERY old technology, not themed to a movie, and an iconic story telling ride. Currently a 45 minute wait. Haunted Mansion: 75 minute wait. I know, not exactly an apples to apples- innovation is good, but it can bankrupt a company trying to keep up with latest every year.

All ears could be pointed to IAAPA 2024 in November. Having been there (exhibiting and other) 2016-2019 & 2021-2023, I can say with about 90% accuracy, Cedar Fair has not been associated with any major coaster contract signings, or VERY few, since the pandemic (*edit: I don't count TT2, as it was not a "new" ground-up coaster). A contract signing in November 2023 would certainly line up with surveying/design work being performed now. BUT, I don't recall CF being associated with any related Press announcements last November. I may have missed it but those things tend to generate a buzz on the floor even if you weren't at the announcement. I also doubt that an 8-digit project would be in queue while the merger is still on the table. Some day there will be something there. I believe that when it arrives it will have an iconic design of sorts as it will be featured in every press-oriented image generated by the park with it's visual location to be included in every picture of the Eiffel Tower. Prior to the run up to Hypers and Gigas- Vortex was a huge marketing piece of the park because the coaster was seen, literally, on every marketing piece (and photo taken from guests at the fountains) generated. Arguably, perhaps, the coaster to appear in more pictures that any ever. I would prefer they choose a coaster concept that is not and cannot be replicated at a sister park- but an experience you can only find at Kings Island. You want taller/faster??? go to CP. Dive Coaster- go to CP or Dorney. Dive coasters tend to all be short, mostly <2min. BUT, if it must be that, do one with a layout similar to Griffon and themed like any of the European installations. Take an experience that you can get within a reasonable drive from KI and add a unique ride experience that drops you into a story that you cannot find elsewhere.

"Mike Baxter with Outdoor Man" with thoughts from an evening at the park. Parks get a black eye sometimes for overlooked, obvious shortfalls- sometimes for good reason, but there also needs to be a set of unwritten rules that should be understood by park guests. For instance: CLEAN UP AFTER YOURSELF: when eating in the Coney area, Festhaus, Juke Box, etc... don't leave your leftover ketchup, BBQ sauce, cheese, etc... laying and/or smeared on the tables. It's gross. DON'T SIT ON THE TABLES: people place their food there and don't want to thing about your posterior sitting where their arms rest while tilting a burger bit in their mouth. That's gross too. Speaking of gross: GUYS- if you enter the restroom and see a bank of unused urinals, but insist on peeing in the toilet, hit the hole. and, if you miss- CLEAN UP AFTER YOURSELF. FLUSH THE %^& TOILET when you're done. When using the urinal, the target in front of you is rather large, and there's really no reason you should miss and contribute to the puddle under it. KEEP YOUR PHONE SECURE WHILE ON A RIDE: the video footage that you get while riding that roller coaster will be so bumpy you won't be able to see it anyway and won't be worth the lawsuit filed against you (or your family's umbrella policy) when it inevitably hits someone after you drop it. Stop throwing pocket items onto the shade tarps. Sure, the first person or two to have done it may have been funny (not really though). But now, you're just #4,543 to have done this tired ritual. In general- CLEAN UP AFTER YOURSELF. But, more- PARENT'S edition: PARENT YOUR CHILDREN. I agree with the park, Kings Island is not your daycare and support the most of the curfew measure, though I'll contend that a lot of the problems are with the 16-18 year old crowd. KEEP YOUR KIDS OUT OF THE LANDSCAPING. I'm amazed at the amount of parents that think that their kids climbing all over the floral date landscaping is somehow okay. NOT ALWAYS THE KID: Adults- stay out of the landscaping DON"T VERBALLY ASSAULT YOUR KID IN FRONT OF EVERYONE (or ever): Yes, they can be annoying. But it's awkward to be in line behind the person dropping all types of f-bombs to their <10 year old while in line for the ride. And to the guy I exchanged word with in line tonight- I'm not the only bystander to notice your tirade. As the spouse of an elementary teacher, some kids get it honestly....

I AGREE! Spring is a hard financial time for parks to navigate, because you are right, the parks are filled with a lot of Season Pass holders and school groups who are there at a discounted price. It would be a hard sell to the "General-Admission-Paying" public to pay full ticket price for: a truncated experience by a park that closes, sometimes, 3 hours earlier than >Memorial Day. days packed with thousands of kids from school groups.... many of whom tend to be "brats" unpredictable weather: hot/cold rain/humid. At least in Summer you know it's going to hot as hades and any humidity storm will be there and gone within 30'ish minutes. It will be an interesting summer. Studies published by professionals affiliated with IAAPA are predicting a good year for seasonal parks. Even if the economy continues a downward trend people will shift into staycation mode and spend money here as opposed to... Orlando. And, yes- the C-Suite folks generally ALWAYS know where the golden parachutes are; and I'm pretty sure that the suite dwellers from the company -approaching financial hardships- trying to merge with the suite dwellers from the company with a -history of financial hardships- know keenly where the keys to unlock the parachute cabinet are.

I'll toss out an idea. I had a concept in my head a few months ago. An Intamin multi-launch coaster that "interacts" with the layout of The Beast, meanwhile named something like "Cryptid" (look it up). The Beast, as a roller coaster isn't The Beast itself, but imagined to be riders on a train going through the woods being stalked by a Beast that lurks about. In a wish list environment, where money is no object, have Cryptid launch out of the station on a long straightaway, ground level, through the woods into a high rise hill (like the hill coming out of the second launch on VelociCoaster) that peeks (out of no where) above the tree line. Go through a winding track in a path through the woods, clearing as few trees as possible and coming close to "The Beast" a few times and coming to a mid-course indoor themed element to a stop- where riders may be able to see The Beast going through the early parts of the track. Using available technology, time it out to when The Beast is preparing to enter a straight section, have "Cryptid" launch out of the enclosed area and interact directly with a Beast roller coaster train- doing a heartline roll directly over The Beast before finishing out the ride. It would be a unique only to KI, have an awesome theme... and give The Beast the ambush that is written about in the station.

Ummmm, guilty?

Again, you provide your typical spiteful response. I didn't say you thought customers were liabilities. If you re-read it was that you view cars in the parking lot as liabilities- which you implied cause wear and tear on said lot. Which, while is true... it is also indicative of guests on premise. You use words like: ignorant, strikingly odd, straw man, half-assed- I'm guessing you're, at most, age 21, not a college grad or student, only have opinions about business ownership but haven't had such experience. have never had to deal with a differing opinion and can only name-call to feel like you have the upper hand... not to mention probably don't pay your own expenses.... Am I close? Yes, I requested a "parade".... I just dropped $1,200+ to the park last week, the last thing I would expect a CF employee (or someone who hasn't bought a pass in years) to call me is entitled.

'Master, a majority of your posts tend to be exceedingly full of sprite to prove to yourself that you are RIGHT. Yes, I park there (I pay for it too....). I usually ride <10 rides a year probably (I just paid $140 for a Season Pass). I tend to not use the restrooms there because they are disgusting, and not all the park's fault. Seemingly grown men who cannot hit a large target like a urinal in front of them feel the need to try their luck at a toilet and proceed to leave urine all over the seat and floor. Again, that's not the Park's fault. But, I just dropped $1,200+ to the park last Saturday... and YES, guests should have some level of expectation that goes along with spending their money there. I can only assume you do work there or had at one time as a disgruntled hourly with a bad guest experience. Otherwise, this is a strange hill for a random person on a fan site (who admittedly hasn't purchased a pass in years) to set up camp on. Again, just say "thank you." While I'm at it, how many businesses have you run? I have owned several: consultancies, a financial services company, and a marketing/web agency, and misfired on a couple. While there are certain aspects of a business that one would be intimately familiar with, if I owned a predominantly outdoor venue I would view cars in the parking lot as paying customers not liabilities to the parking lot. Wouldn't concern myself with the number of times the toilet flushed- unless there was a leak. Flushing toilets mean there are guests present. I imagine if you ran an entertainment-focused business you would be genuinely pi**ed when guests came; that's a solid business model, by the way. And Boddha saying you work there. I'm willing to be you do... or at least did at one time. I know you're not a lawyer, or have had any relevant Law classes. No lawyer worth $5/hour would be posting such strong-spirited opinions on fansite pages. I'm not sure how you can come across as level-headed on other KIC threads, but have such thin skin and unwilling to acknowledge opposite opinions to yours exist on this one.