TombRaiderFTW

It's a little sad to see that area become the focus it was over the last 10 years and then drop off farther than it had been previously. Probably one of the bigger combined fumbles of the Ouimet and Zimmerman eras is that nothing that landed there from 2014 onwards remains 10 years later (unless I'm forgetting something.) I also feel like it's probably not a coincidence that the plots of land being cleared are adjacent to each other. From a business perspective and how the now-Six Flags-but-formerly-Cedar Fair leadership team seems to prioritize things, I wouldn't be shocked to see a GCI announced for that plot of land in the next few years.

I'd love to go (I haven't been since 2019 and I miss it) but unfortunately the PTO gods didn't smile down on me this year. Hope you and anyone else who goes has a great time! The IAAPA Celebrates event at Epcot sounds like a blast, too. I've never had a bad time at the Celebrates events.

I think you're gonna be hard-pressed to see Banshee operate with more than one train until a thorough investigation is complete. I'd even go so far as to speculate that Banshee won't regain a second (or third) train until 2025, or the very end of Haunt at the soonest. Gonna take a guess here that the PLC thought Valravn had one fewer train than it actually had. If it had one extra/a ghost train, I would expect that the PLC would have put an extra block between the train in the station and the train on the brakes and refused to advance the train on the brakes to the next available block. On an unrelated gripe: KI PR hasn't released any kind of statement about Banshee's collision, and I think that is the most aggravating and disheartening move possible in this scenario. People should not be learning about this incident from Reddit--you've got to get ahead of the story! Every single amusement park in the United States is operating in spite of a cultural narrative that they are unsafe and operated by dishonest people who cover up safety incidents to make a dollar. The minute you don't set the record straight and you let social media control the narrative, you lend credence to that idea--and if that idea grows too big, it WILL hurt the industry, and especially the park. The distance between Carowinds's communication on Fury 325's support crack and Kings Island's communication on the Banshee incidents is staggering. It almost feels like there's a Titanic-like hubris among KI's PR leader(s)...

For what it's worth, I don't want to talk about The Crypt's building. I wish they'd demolish it, too. I apologize that I made you feel attacked for being interested in Son of Beast. That wasn't my intent, but I get where it would have seemed that way. The point I was going for is solely that this path of reviving old attractions is getting tiresome, and that's not specific to you. I don't want The Crypt back, and I don't want Son of Beast back. Son of Beast seems to lead the charge on people skyrocketing their expectations anytime anything remotely related pops up, and that's been true since 2009. And then those expectations don't work out and everyone starts yelling at each other. The cycle seems endless, and it's making it hard to want to be here. Which sucks, because I really enjoy the community here when it isn't all, "Valleyfair tweeted something with the number 5 in it, Son of Beast was Outpost 5, RMC Son of Beast is coming back next year and I'm right or else!"

I've accepted that all conversations on this site will always lead to Son of Beast, if given enough time and enough people participating. I thought we'd eventually someday escape this Groundhog Day scenario and settle into a The Bat-pre-2014 level of discussion about it, but then apparently someone on Six Flags's creative team decided this year that they hate me.

Gonna be honest, I'm feeling pretty intense nostalgia burnout with KI, and especially with Son of Beast. It was a terrible ride with the coolest marketing. Make a new legend and stop dancing around the idea of reviving old rides.

I believe this was what was aired:

It's worth noting that the AECOM/TEA attendance report is an estimation and not based on figures released by parks. I highly recommend not treating those numbers as factual. It's my opinion that AECOM/TEA does an alright job of generally tracking attendance trends (e.g. attendance is down at a given park in a year) but it's a mistake to use the attendance numbers themselves as proof of anything.

It's worth noting that the TEA attendance report is an estimation and not based on figures released by parks. If that's the only data point we're discussing here, we don't have definitive proof that Wonderland's attendance dropped that significantly. That being said, it's my opinion that the TEA report does an okay job of estimating overall attendance trends for parks based on the events of the year. I'm curious, @MisterSG1, what do you think happened this year at Wonderland to cause an attendance drop? Admittedly, I don't specifically follow what's happening at every park beyond big announcements, but I haven't been aware of anything big happening at Wonderland this year.

This feels like a question for @Captain Nemo. Apologies if I've forgotten any other former TRTR ride ops!

Who has been teasing it? How have they been teasing it?

It's a cool concept, with features unlike anything else on the continent, in an iconic location in the park. Love it. Totally agree with the Volcano comparisons, and I kind of love that another park is getting their own take on the concept. I'm a little concerned about capacity--Wonderland gets BUSY and two 18-passenger trains are a bit concerning. I also wonder if it'll have comfort collars, as those only make loading slower. But yeah, all in all, I think this'll be a win. Good for them!

Well maybe it wouldn't be if you'd just left your 3D glasses on.

Well, yeah. It's a Volcano replacement. In the spirit of what came before, Rapterra will also quickly gain a long queue in the morning and keep it all day. In all seriousness, that's a smart addition for a park that's been hemorrhaging popular rides for the last decade. B&M Wing Coasters maybe aren't my personal cup of tea, but they're marketable and there's nothing like it in the area. Good for them. It's a little curious that a 305 retheme announcement wasn't part of today's news. Wonder if that's gonna be for 2026 or if the announcement is just coming later.

I think it has collapsed collapsed at this point. You used to be able to just make out the brick chimney. It hasn't been visible for a few years.

I only miss that ride more with time. Great pictures. Thank you!

It is, thanks! I don't know exactly which year that is from, but to my knowledge, CF didn't make any changes to TRTR until the 2007-2008 off-season. As far as I'm aware, that's what TRTR's plaza looked like from 2002-2007. EDIT: Oh wait! Those definitely are CF-style trash cans. Yep, that does look like it's from 2007!

I unfortunately can't open that attachment, so I'm not sure.

I think you're right, although I do wonder how much Premier and S&S offering retrackings for Arrow coasters might lessen the blow. If one or both is willing to retrack the loopers, it makes me wonder about the suspended coasters in particular. I could see Six Flags retracking either CP's Iron Dragon or Wonderland's Vortex, replacing the trains with floorless trains, and giving either a new name.

Silly homestar, don't you know that now is the time for hyperbole and continually judging the entire legacy of the former Six Flags Entertainment Corporation based on the CEO from the late 90's and early 2000's? You're not supposed to say NICE things! Quick, crack a Six Flags over Sandusky joke to right your wrongs!

I can't believe they involved the painter and forklift operator in the design of TT2! No WONDER it's got so many problems.

So, no one asked for this novel, but you've touched on a special interest of mine and now you will pay: The image/presence of Durga(**) was not specifically copywritten, nor was the concept of icy stalactites, nor was the idea of a lava pit. The entire concept of a ride like Tomb Raider: The Ride was patented to Paramount Parks, Inc. You can see the patent here: link. (It's got some cool pictures I geek out pretty hard over.) Included in the patent are the following descriptions, paraphrased: A HUSS Giant Top Spin ride (or similar product with at least three rows of theatrical seating) synchronized with theatrical effects, including music, lighting effects, audio, fog, fire, water, smoke, and/or steam Using said ride to stop riders at a number of predetermined locations in sync with music, lighting, audio, etc. Seated-integrated loose article receptacles, such as a bag An exact description of the TRTR ride cycle, including the locations of the gondola, descriptions of when the gondola was meant to lock and unlock, and which effects were meant to trigger at each location A description of the antechamber (the room before the preshow) that contains specifically named items like stone archways and the stone monkey statues that were used during the filming of Lara Croft: Tomb Raider (2001), as well as the presence of fog in the room A description of the preshow room that names specific actions like the antechamber door closing behind guests (including accompanying sound effects), the faux fire lamps, the use of the preshow screen, and of course the audio and video of the preshow itself The door itself between the preshow room and the ride chamber (##) The headlights on the front of the gondola The jewels in Durga's (**) hands and the fact that they are backlit, as well as the lasers in Durga's eyes that scan the gondola Blacklight effects in the ride chamber (##), period The aforementioned razor sharp ice spikes and their use of mist, dripping water, and fiber-optic lights The volcano and its use of mist, water, lighting, and fire (the last of which was never part of the ride experience, to my knowledge, but can you imagine?!) Admittedly, that link DOES say that the process of patenting the ride was abandoned as of 1/10/2005. I don't know how or where to go to corroborate that date or discover whether or not it would have given Paramount additional legal standing to sue if Cedar Fair had been less heavy-handed with the retheme. I'm also under the impression that Cedar Fair absorbed Paramount Parks, Inc., so one could assume that ownership of the patent would have passed to Cedar Fair if it still had any legal merit. If the patent wasn't the reason for the heavy-handed retheme, then it was almost certainly overcautious lawyers and Kinzel-era "thrills first" thinking of the time. Note that short of the loose article bags and the preshow-ride chamber door, none of the things I pointed out from the patent remained when The Crypt opened in 2008--not even the presence of a third row on the gondola. It got reduced down to two rows beginning in 2008. Even then, though, if you ignore the patent, that ride was of course chock-full of references to Lara Croft: Tomb Raider, which remains Paramount-trademarked film. These references included but were not limited to: The Triangle of Light (a magical artifact from the film) in the queue, antechamber, and ride chamber Queue music that sampled the film score and ride audio that sampled film dialogue Monkey statues that were used in filming A preshow room whose decor was an in-spirit recreation of the Cambodian temple scene in the film, including the Brahman statue behind the preshow screen A preshow film that used audio and video from the film If you take those away... there's not much left to work with. There's more than what The Crypt operated with, sure, but you've taken a lot away from the experience. It's not inconceivable that Kinzel-era CF saw what remained and decided to ditch the theming (which was never their forte, and Paramount hadn't exactly kept up with what was there) and go for thrills, which is definitely what the first 1.5 years of The Crypt had to offer. Curiously, Kings Dominion's Tomb Raider: Firefall/The Crypt stayed almost intact throughout its life and only lost its one reference to the Triangle of Light. It straight up kept its monkey statues AND audio references to the Lara Croft: Tomb Raider film score. Which makes me think all the more that Kings Island's drastic de-theming was more because of the patent than anything else. Kings Dominion's ride was not patented and (in my non-lawyer-y opinion) did not match the description of the KI ride's patent. But, that's just my guess! ** = It should be noted that the patent itself claims the god represented in the ride chamber is Shiva. Over the years of being curious, I've never found a depiction of Shiva or Durga (or any other Hindu deity) that seemed conclusive enough to say. Either way, presenting a deity of a real-world religion as the antagonist of a theme park ride is... a choice, and perhaps a product of its time that wouldn't and shouldn't be repeated today. ## = I do love that the patent refers to the ride chamber as the Heart of the Tomb. That's a cool name.

I could be off-base, but I was always under the impression that WoF's Troika and Condor were both products of that time in the mid-2010's where Cedar Fair sent representatives to Europe to buy some classic flat rides that have become less available nowadays stateside.

I believe you've got that backwards. EDIT: Ignore me. I thought we were talking about Space Mountain.

If I were the park and doing a nostalgia-based attraction based on the options here, I'd do a B&M surf coaster named King Cobra. I don't say this to shoot down this topic, but if I'm being honest, I'd much rather the park definitively draw the nostalgia era to a close with a return of Phantom Theater and then start focusing more on creating new legends. Nostalgia was a cool focus for the 50th, and bringing back The Bat name, adding Kings Mills Antique Autos, and making the refurbishments of Adventure Express and Racer among the marketed additions of their respective years were inspired touches. I also think that if we continue much more down that path, the park risks another era down the road where, much like post-Paramount, the park will have failed to keep up with the industry and we'll be getting an RMC 10 years after the stateside trend has faded, as was the case with B&M inverts and Banshee. Every legendary KI ride was some new idea the park hadn't seen before. Let's do more of that.