KI Guy

Unfortunately though they had a lot of old, steel coasters. They all have to come down at some point. I agree with you though that it would be pretty excessive to see three go in three years (with one replacement). Since steel coasters have a limited life and wood coasters have an indefinite life, I'm curious about the lifespan of RMC hybrids. I think that might depend on how much the i-beam track costs to replace. @BeastForever Thank you for your factoid on The Beast and Racer supports. Few would ever guess that.

I don't think expansion should be a focus right now. There are way too many things on developed land that need to be addressed first. If an "expansion " happens it will probably be just a better utilization of the land they've used. Ki has been in a tough position as of late with a lot of their rides getting up there in age and cost. Potential short term Chopping Block: Invertigo Bat Congo Falls Timberwolf Other areas for improvement include a 17 year-old dark ride, an ugly, empty tan box, empty action theater, empty Vortex plot, eyesore of coaster in Backlot, (Shades of Disaster Transport). All this is pretty understandable. There's only so much money to invest per year. They've just come up on a changing of the guard so to speak starting in 2018. For those wanting an expansion the next best thing is a full re-do of everything in Action Zone except Banshee, Drop Tower, and Delirium. How likely that is is hard to say.

I understand what you're saying, but this would just make a lot of people angry. Remember when they tried to make Haunt not included with the Gold Pass? How about the time they wanted to take free parking off the Gold Pass? You can't give someone something for "free" and then start charging for it. If they want additional revenue to invest in the water park, it's best to just raise the season pass and ticket price. I think it's understood that for most people, the park is the draw and Soak City is a nice bonus.

I think park goers both enthusiast and normal, more than anything want something: 1. Enjoyable- This is important because why else would you ride it? 2. Different- This is important because why would you need to go to ride coaster x if it's very similar to coaster y? Orion is a good coaster, probably better than Firehawk or Vortex. However, I don't think Orion is that different than Diamondback in terms of ride experience. I don't think it will be just enthusiasts that say that either. Sometimes casual park fans lump rides together more than enthusiasts. They don't care if B&M or Premier made a coaster, but I'm sure they can notice differences in how they feel just like we can. DB and Orion are the two most similar coasters in terms of ride experience I can think of at KI at a single time. Over it's history, KI has done a great job at making their coasters distinct from the existing ones. Even the three wooden coasters are remarkably different. Over the last few seasons, whether you like Orion or not, it's hard to argue that KI's coasters are more distinct than in 2018. One park that has done an even better job at keeping all their coasters different tmis Cedar Point. All 14 adult coasters are quite different from each other.

Do you say that because of how the new Antique Cars cut into the Coney midway?

I was surprised by how fun the Swing Around at Darien Lake (Corn Popper) was. It doesn't look like anything special just looking at it. @wabashcr, if you loved Skylab, I'd bet you'd love an Endeavor. It's essentially a Skylab with a great view and dangling feet. The open design limits the risk of nausea common on Skylab type rides. If you make a trip to KK sometime, It's definitely worth a try. I'd put the barrels where the ladder game is in Oktoberfest as I think someone suggested. The Trabant, (or the "face-off" like replacement the Wipe-out) would be a good nod to the old Wheel of Fortune if they could find a place in Coney Mall.

I think three giant flat rides is enough for the time being. it would be nice to have more of the traditional sized flats such as an Endeavor, Air Race, Swing Around, spinning barrels, Trabant, etc.

With an uncertain economy for Cedar Fair and KI just having gotten an expensive coaster it's likely the odds of getting one or more flat rides within the next several years is high. What would you guys like to see?

Kings Island has seen an especially dynamic past three seasons for coasters. Which option is most true for you? This is a fun, hypothetical scenario.

IF, (big if), the park wants to use the old Vortex site for a coaster I don't see a dive machine (or any other B&M): 1. Orion was a very expensive addition at $30 million. 2. Dive Machines are quite expensive. The last two Cedar Fair purchased, Valravyn and Yukon Striker were around $25 Million. If KI is set on a Dive Machine I would think they would have to wait a full 5 years to 2025 to spread the cost. Think of Diamondback ($22M) in '09 and Banshee in '14 ($24M). 3. I doubt the park wants to have that prime land sitting vacant for more than necessary. 4. I think the most likely option factoring in all of this is a family coaster or a ground up RMC with a cost of $15 million or less. I don't spend as much time with family coasters so I can't give a good example. For a ground up RMC, a great example is Zadra built last year with a cost equivalent between $15-16 million. If they are trying to make a true replacement for Vortex I'd imagine this is the more likely of the two. **By the way, the park did something similar with the $24 million Banshee and the $15 million Mystic Timbers following.

Do you know what? That is an excellent idea! With the addition of Diamondback, and the removal of Swan Lake, Rivertown lost a lot of it's old look and charm. A return of a real, nicely landscaped lake would help so much to restore the look at least in another location. For those of you too young to remember, this was Swan Lake. Today it is the site of the Diamondback splashdown pool, brake run, and station. Credit to the fine folks of KIExtreme.com.

Does anyone know if the band organ is working this year?

Seeing the old Vortex plot empty was odd and a little sad. Seeing it empty also proved to me that a coaster and little else could go there as you can see how truly "un-flat" that plot is.

@FOFirehawkFAN, the SOB chain echo was a KI signature in the same way. How likely is it that at the time they get rid of Invertigo they also remove Timberwolf and Congo Falls? That would open a lot of flat, usable space for midways flats, a coaster, or a newer, larger water ride. Personally, I'd hate to see a water ride go without a replacement.

That's a pretty a broad brush. I doubt you'd say the same about people with other bad habits or addictions. Almost everyone does something they regret. Banning smoking entirely might minutely improve the experience of non-smokers who aren't in a group with smokers, but KI is a business and a lot of their customers are smokers. KI is a product. They have to cater to a customer. A national park is not a business, and will exist whether people come or not. They can have that policy with no ill-effects. I do get an occasional whiff of smoke from time to time at KI. I think the best solution would be smoking areas more off the beaten path. I don't know what laws exist for something like this, but if they could legally add lounges where adults over 21 could go inside and smoke that might further fix the problem.

That is interesting. If that turns out to be the case, I think that's more reasonable. I wonder if they didn't announce it as temporary because they want to see how people take it and then re-assess it later.

I'd think they'd have the option as no one has used their pass yet, and even so it's just fair business. Something has changed without notice to negatively affect the experience of smokers with season passes. I don't know how many would do that, but they should have the option. Yes, smoking numbers are dwindling, but around 20% of Ohio adults smoke. That is a lot of customers.

If in theory the park created a smoking patio way off the beaten path would you have a problem with that? I think there's an easy solution somewhere in the middle between smoking areas as they were and the full ban inside the gates. I personally think they're being particularly unaccommodating to smoking guests. I can imagine a good number of people will just light up in bathrooms, and where no one is looking rather than walk to the exit and back. Also for those thinking this is a policy due to the pandemic and not a permanent change, the park would have told us that.

It all depends on if a pool with extras is enough to sustain the park. I think they've lost a lot of their appeal by losing the rides especially in as a venue for company functions as others have said. I think they'll find that their reduced costs cut their revenue more than they anticipated. However, I know the pool has been very popular and at least in the late '70s, Coney survived as a pool. This has been a long time coming. Coney started down this road after about 2000 since then very little money has been spent on the dry side. I can understand this if money was very tight and they couldn't safely borrow funds for improvements, (and no one wanted to buy the park). If they could have done it financially, I think their best play would have been to be a better Stricker's Grove with a pool and more days open to the public. They would have a coaster about the size of the Raven at Holiday World and a kiddie coaster and would keep up their flat rides. I just don't know if the money was there for something like that. If it was, someone decided not to act.

I don't smoke, I never have. I don't even have friends that smoke. I don't like smoking, and hate the effects it has on people. However, I still think the policy is bad for business. Let me explain. This does not have the same affect as the no smoking law at restaurants and bars. Patrons to those places can smoke before or after they enter. Kings Island is a place where people spend up to 12 hours at a time. Most smokers do not go 12 hours without a cigarette. By making it a situation where smoking guests have to leave the park and go through security each time they re-enter, you are creating a deterrence for them to go to the park and also to not stay in the park. For a smoker it is one more reason to go have lunch at the nearby McDonald's. You can have a cigarette on the way. The rest of the smoker's group/family might go along too and not eat inside the park. Lastly, if the goal is to keep non-smokers from second-hand smoke, I fail to see how having an area outside the gate will help all that much as people will be exposed to it upon entry. If that is the goal, which I doubt, I think limiting smoking to only within Tower Gardens (former Paramount Story) would suffice.

Awesome pictures. I'm sure these were taken by a good photographer with a good camera. I wonder if the top half of the 3D Amazon Falls Sign is still in the sign shop so they can get rid of the cloth "Congo" sign. I especially like The Bat teaser and station construction pic. Preach brother. The pedestals were what made the royal fountain unique. I wonder how much money they saved with that decision.

I think two seasons is too early to talk about demolishing a popular coaster with some maintenance gremlins. Could someone elaborate on the extent of the mechanical troubles?

15 years does not cut it in the coaster world. That would be considered a failure. Imagine Diamondback only having 4 more years left in it after this season. There's no way, (thank goodness ). For their accounting, I'd think the coaster's asset value would be amortized over 30 years or so.

It's prime real estate, so I think they'll put a coaster there at some point. How the economy shakes out might be the difference of 2 years or more. *In an alternate world where log flumes are still a big thing, it'd be a great place to put one of those. They can be a trendsetter if they want though.

Thanks for the info. I wonder if this is partially to blame on the mostly wooden structure. Since a Kings Island RMC coaster would have to be built from the ground up, it could be made with a full steel structure. Maybe KI could get the first RMC T-Rex design. While this makes sense and I believe it to be true, I don't think that means that a big park should not build high intensity coasters like Steel Vengeance. Different coasters appealing to different riders is okay and a good thing. Just as more mild coasters (by today's standards) like Gemini and Iron Dragon serve their purpose, more intense ones like Steel Vengeance and Maverick have a place.