Geauga Lake Petition

[pkimike]

I'm not trying to pick a fight... but wal mart doesn't close 4 months a year either...

Gl is my home park and KI is my second, and always has been.

That is the point. I read in one article that the GL brought in like $30,000 to the local economy compared to a lot more in the past. I am not sure on the amount.

It might be a bigger deal if Wal-Mart left than GL closing for the local economy. I know it wouldn't be as emotional however.

I think GL closes more like 6 months a year.

[Beast1979]

^I rode everything I wanted to on a Friday at CP in about 8 hours. (With some re-rides)

GL is down for the count! -crosses fingers for something decant-

That must have been one hell of a day in hourly capacity. TTD Has like, a 1 hour line!

[Gordon Bombay]

Again - I never said that losing a job is a not a big deal. You are arguing something different. The comment was made that "tons of jobs" were lost. I would not call 50 fulltime jobs 'tons of jobs" I don't think the lose of jobs will mean anything to the local economy. That is all I am saying.

I do feel bad for the GL fans. I would not want that to happen to KI. I just think some are exagerating the situtaion when it come to jobs and other aspects.

If it stayed open they would have cut a lot more jobs to make money. I doubt the fans of Gl would be complaining about those jobs. They would be saying that CF made a good bussiness decision to keep the park open.

I'll bet the local Wal-Mart has more fulltime employees than GL did.

More than just the 50 full time positions. Just because a job is seasonal doesn't mean its insignifigant. I worked with plenty of folks at KI who were teachers trying to make some extra money and a seasonal job can be VERY beneficial to a college student. The jobs lost by the closing of the rides side could have a signifigant effect on the local economy depending on the demographics of where the workers lived and commuted from.

I'm not trying to pick a fight... but wal mart doesn't close 4 months a year either...

Full time means you work year round. Those 50 full time employees he was referring to worked at the park on salary 12 months a year.

[flightoffear1996]

No full time means you average 40 hours or is it 32 hours or more per week.

[jzarley]

Again - I never said that losing a job is a not a big deal. You are arguing something different. The comment was made that "tons of jobs" were lost. I would not call 50 fulltime jobs 'tons of jobs" I don't think the lose of jobs will mean anything to the local economy. That is all I am saying.

I do feel bad for the GL fans. I would not want that to happen to KI. I just think some are exagerating the situtaion when it come to jobs and other aspects.

If it stayed open they would have cut a lot more jobs to make money. I doubt the fans of Gl would be complaining about those jobs. They would be saying that CF made a good bussiness decision to keep the park open.

I'll bet the local Wal-Mart has more fulltime employees than GL did.

If your point is that GL is not a critical piece of the NE Ohio economy, I agree completely. (Although, a lot of "little bites" out of a local economy eventually add up...) I think you're right that we had different interpretations of your comment about the job losses being "no big deal"...you meant more to the macro-economy, whereas I was focusing on the human element. (Which, I still maintain is a very big deal to the people who lost their jobs...just like the GM strike is a big deal to the workers who are on strike right now...)

But, if we're going to talk on a macro-economic level, I'll take it a step further (actually, a LOT of steps further ) and say that EVERY theme park in the U.S. could close, and overall it would have very little impact on the country's economy as a whole (ignoring for a moment, of course, that economic conditions were already so bad it caused every park in the country to close ). Yeah, the local Orlando economy would be pretty hard hit, but all other things being equal, it probably wouldn't impact the rest of us (or most Americans) financially at all. (Well, maybe Interpreter since I think his paycheck comes from the industry )

Of course, that's an absurd sceanario, but people on these boards think a lot different about parks than they do other businesses...for better or worse. (And, it's doubtful any of us have spent much time on a Wal*Mark fan site lately )

[Vortex]

I saw a news story talking about the Geauga Lake Petition and Cedar Fair said it will do no good. The news story did say alot of fans hope Cedar Fair does the right thing and save The Dipper.

[BoddaH1994]

I saw a news story talking about the Geauga Lake Petition and Cedar Fair said it will do no good. The news story did say alot of fans hope Cedar Fair does the right thing and save The Dipper.

I'm back and forth about CF saying it would do no good. It kind of stinks to stomp out the element of hope, however Cedar Fair's honesty says a lot.

[The Interpreter]

I'm not trying to pick a fight... but wal mart doesn't close 4 months a year either...

Gl is my home park and KI is my second, and always has been.

That is the point. I read in one article that the GL brought in like $30,000 to the local economy compared to a lot more in the past. I am not sure on the amount.

It might be a bigger deal if Wal-Mart left than GL closing for the local economy. I know it wouldn't be as emotional however.

I think GL closes more like 6 months a year.

The about $30,000 you speak of is the tax payment to one of the local municipalities. The employees who lost their jobs total salaries are far, far more than that. Then there is the multiplier effect, the loss to lodging, gas stations, general merchandisers, etc.

[The Interpreter]

So what is to become of the dry side? Some speculation here:

http://www.myfoxcleveland.com/myfox/pages/...mp;pageId=3.2.1

[Captain Picard]

I think they are wishing for Ohio gambling to pass someday.

[Beast1979]

So what is to become of the dry side? Some speculation here:

http://www.myfoxcleveland.com/myfox/pages/...mp;pageId=3.2.1

Nice Guess!

Beast1979

[raptor]

i'm a fan of old time amusement parks, and though I've never been to Geauga Lake, It's a very sad day to me when a 100 year old amusement park closes.

[Rustbucket]

I signed the petition. I lived about 15 minutes from GL and Sea World and had season passes. BTW, Aurora and the surrounding area are high income area. CF will get pretty good money out of the deal. Frankly, Paramount looks to be the smartest people.

I said GL was doomed when CF bought the park. I also said CF buying PP is a mistake. People just do not learn from history. Just look at CF. It is fine to buy others to expad when the times are good, but there always will be a time when the bear market hits. Many companies have made this same mistake. SF sure knew what they were doing in 2004. And yes. SF now seems to have turned the corner. CF is just heading toward where SF was three years ago.

[Browntggrr]

I bet you would be pretty upset is KI or CP unexpectedly closed after the season ended when just two weeks before the head of your company talked about his hopes for the park for the next season. You would possibly cry too, its hard to say, you and I arent dealing with the situation.

The thing is; GL's closing was not unexpected.

That rumor has been flying around since Steel Venom & X-Flight were being taken down.

[UncleHenry]

I did NOT sign the petition because

1. It will do absolutely nothing

and

2. I saw this coming, as it is a very good decision by Cedar Fair. GL was often in the red, and the company needs all the money it can get.

[FOFirehawkFAN]

save the big dipper!!! http://savethedipper.com/

[Browntggrr]

^ There has been many opinions thrown around about online petitions and how pointless they are.

This is one that is worth it.

[Gordon Bombay]

I'm sure CF would definently save it! ..........for the right price

P.S. Brown, why are you up this early?

[The Interpreter]

So what is to become of the dry side? Some speculation here:

http://www.myfoxcleveland.com/myfox/pages/...mp;pageId=3.2.1

Nice Guess!

Beast1979

I don't think I have said this before on this board, so now is a good time. When I post a link, unless I say so, it does not mean I agree (or disagree) with it, nor that I vouch for the information contained therein. It means I found it interesting, think you may, and that I posted a link.

Nothing more.

[The Interpreter]

Speaking of which, The Sandusky Register, normally a hometown cheerer for Cedar Fair, weighs in with its opinion on the Geauga Lake [dry] Park closing:

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/articles/2...ints/419401.txt

[Browntggrr]

P.S. Brown, why are you up this early?

I work 3rd shift.

[Beast1979]

So what is to become of the dry side? Some speculation here:

http://www.myfoxcleveland.com/myfox/pages/...mp;pageId=3.2.1

Nice Guess!

Beast1979

I don't think I have said this before on this board, so now is a good time. When I post a link, unless I say so, it does not mean I agree (or disagree) with it, nor that I vouch for the information contained therein. It means I found it interesting, think you may, and that I posted a link.

Nothing more.

Well, I agree with that particular post!

[Phantom420]

Not many good old historical parks like Geauga Lake left anymore very sad to see another one go. And not a very decent way of going about it on CF's end. I wish that Six Flags would have sold to a company that was more willing to place the parks history and well being as the main focus and had been more willing to put a little effort into it. Bad Move CF, low figures on your papers were to be expected since you in basic didn't even give the park a chance in the short time you owned it. Amusement Park fans all over are feel as if CF didn't even care enough to give anyone a fair waring for last rides. I hope the company takes a massive fall at it's other parks as I surly will spend my vacation at a NON Cedar Fair this summer, and I hope many others turn backs on the CF Parks, just as Cedar "Unfair" has done to park and coaster enthusiast's all over with this obviously "Unprofessional" move. If enough people would boycott the CF parks for one year enough to kick them in the wallet maybe next time that they decide to pull a blow like this, lessons will have been learned... THANKS For The Final Pics, Rides, Souvenirs, That we as GL fans will never get CF. After over a century of operation this was one poor grand finale. The park and fans deserved much more and with being Cedar Fair "kings of amusement " I'm sure you could have found a better way of doing things. A finale year that was properly advertised may have made for a "hell of a year" of attendance and been a decent thing to do for the parks long time fans and would have pulled enthusiast's from all over for that final ride...Umm Hello??? Mishandled is an understatement !

[Gordon Bombay]

Since we don't have all the information or figures to really get into and question the financial reasons for Cedar Fair's closing of Geauga Lake, it really surprised me they wouldn't announce such a thing to the park guests in an effort to sell of merchandise rather than just having to destroy it.

[The Interpreter]

Six Flags needed money badly, and sold to the highest bidder. If park lovers had gone to Geauga Lake, perhaps it would not have closed. I can guarantee you Cedar Fair is in business to generate a profit, not unlike any other public company. The purchase and closure were both seen by the company as in its best interest as each decision was made.

Boycotts almost never work. Enthusiasts are a very minor part of any park's business. If none of them ever went again, most parks would never notice.

[Browntggrr]

^^^ Another person trying to tell us that CF made a bad decision to stop throwing away money.

CF is in the business to make money, not waste it.

[RingMaster]

Then, technically, they wouldn't have gotten rid of SeaWorld Ohio or the two Winterfest events at Kings Island and Carowinds.

I know Paramount screwed up the return of Winterfest with the high ticket prices, and I have no knowledge (or interest for that matter) of finances or money-related issues involving Cedar Fair, but they (Paramount) were at least making SOME form of money during the event.

I say this because all this talk of "CF is in debt and they're in it to make money" just doesn't make any sense when only ONE park is open year-round (Knott's Berry Farm) or at least has some way of making money in the off-season for the company (again, KBF).

And, even though there's no way people would like to traverse a marine park up north in the middle of January, SeaWorld was still a big draw for people up in Cleveland aside from you-know-what. It was also the only SeaWorld that was of relative closeness to anyone living in the Midwest and Northeast, without having to shell out endless amounts of money to hop a plane just to go see Shamu down in Orlando, San Antonio, or all the way over in San Diego.

Finally....I, in my honest opinion, don't believe that the decision to close Geauga Lake was made AFTER the season ended. No, more like, halfway through the '07 season, when several full-timers either left or got relocated from GL to other parks in the chain.

....actually, so far, I only know of one full-timer that was relocated (the others are part of a rumor that was bing spread around not long after the announcement was made) and got moved down here to the Island: an Operations Manager of Wildwater Kingdom who moved down south and became an Operations Manager of Boomerang Bay, then suddenly became the Operations Manager for Park Services. Like I mentioned earlier I have to do a little bit of research to see if the rumors that other full-timers were relocated were true or not. But if they were, then that means they were planning to close down the park all alaong....or at least several months before the park actually closed for the season.

But, like I said, I'm no expert, this is all just opinionated.

[Browntggrr]

Then, technically, they wouldn't have gotten rid of SeaWorld Ohio or the two Winterfest events at Kings Island and Carowinds.

I know Paramount screwed up the return of Winterfest with the high ticket prices, and I have no knowledge (or interest for that matter) of finances or money-related issues involving Cedar Fair, but they (Paramount) were at least making SOME form of money during the event.

Paramount not only screwed up the return of WF, they originally cancelled it back in 1992.

What Paramount did in 2005, was a half-hearted attempt to bring it back. But they were only trying to show that it could do well to prospective buyers.

And they might have made some money as you mentioned, but probably not enough to justify the effort put into the event.

And you are probably corrrect in believing that the decision to close GL was made during the '07 season.

[CoastersRZ]

There were a couple flaws with WinterFest. The main one being that they simply priced themselves out of the market. When The Beach was across the street offering admission for $12.50 a person and free admission to their event for Beach pass holders. It is hard to compete with that when Kings Island was asking about $24 a head to get into WinterFest. However, Winterfest was hands down superior to HolidayFest at The Beach.

And the live entertainment at Kings Island for WinterFest was extraordinary. The train ride actually had a story and live actors, similar to how they run it with Halloween Haunt. There were also roaming performers.

Another thing that hurt Winterfest, and was likely one of the reasons for its high admission cost was the start up costs. Since there was a large investment in props and decorations (either purchased or rented) there were large sums of money outlayed for that first WinterFest. Those sums of money would not likely be as high in successive seasons had it continued.

And, more and more parks are attempting to tap into the Holiday season, as a means to generate extra revenue at a time when the parks are normally closed. I think that ten years from now, if Cedar Fair still owns the parks, and they are not in as much debt, they might explore the idea of having WinterFest again as a way to generate further revenues for unit holders. I think it is safe to say that the original WinterFest was successful. There were WinterFest events where the park attracted about 300,000 people. Which is a pretty impressive number considering that represents roughly 10% of KI`s usual annual attendance.