firebasic Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Frankly I don't think they have any choice in the matter at this point. Based on the testimony I doubt any insurance company would insure the operation of SOB. Since we live in a litigation based society now any further injuries would almost instantly create a lawsuit. The park now publicly knows that the ride is deficient in engineering. They would be willingly endangering the public by reopening. I am not sure based on what I know that any amount of repair could bring the ride back to being structurally sound. While I would hate to see it go I just don't see any other viable choice. I know this is an old adage that was told to me when I started in the amusement park biz. A new employee asked an older one "What is the life expectancy of a ride?" The older gentleman replied "Until the first major accident." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver2005 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Could Cedar Fair file a lawsuit on Viacom for inheriting Son of Beast in the first place? Even if you couldn't, at least have Viacom pay for whatever CF wants to do with it, whether it'd be to refurbish it with retracking and new trains, or to destroy it. One could also question the expertice of inspectors from the Ohio Department of Agriculture for saying it was safe to operate, and now has been proven otherwise. I honestly think even the most seasoned enthusiast with knowledge of Son of Beast's flaws won't go near it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Based on the testimony I doubt any insurance company would insure the operation of SOB. That could be why CF closed SoB down this season. It is possible that the insurance carrier pulled SoB's policy. Could Cedar Fair file a lawsuit on Viacom for inheriting Son of Beast in the first place? Even if you couldn't, at least have Viacom pay for whatever CF wants to do with it, whether it'd be to refurbish it with retracking and new trains, or to destroy it. Unless there was some type of "warrenty" (or call it what you like) clause in the purchase agreement, CF can not go after Paramount/ Viacom. Under most large purchases (like a home or business) once the buyer signs and the check is handed over, the deal is done. I would be shocked to find out that there was such agreement, and, we probably would have already heard about it due to the lawsuits. I got a couple of pieces of The Beast. That I found in the woods on a tour. But there all llike nuts and old screws that never were used. If the pieces were never used, then they are not part of Beast. You are the proud owner of some rusty nuts and bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Could Cedar Fair file a lawsuit on Viacom for inheriting Son of Beast in the first place? Even if you couldn't, at least have Viacom pay for whatever CF wants to do with it, whether it'd be to refurbish it with retracking and new trains, or to destroy it. No, I think CF full well knew that SoB was a piece of junk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 As has been discussed previously in this and other threads, Cedar Fair appears to be self insured. As has also been stated, major acquisitions by large companies are normally indeed "as is, where is" acquisitions, with the buyer given an opportunity to do what is called due diligence to determine how the price should be adjusted given any potential contingencies. Cedar Fair had such a period. In addition, these days, many agreements include an arbitration clause to prevent such matters from going to court (and possibly becoming public). Anyone can sue anybody for anything. Getting representation is another issue. Having a case before a court with jurisdiction is another. Whether or not the matter is worth pursuing yet another. And collecting, even if one wins, is yet another. For many problems, law suits are not the best answer, or even the 30th best answer. For some, they are not an answer at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Picard Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 It was said in a conference call by Dick Kinzel that they would not sacrifice safety at any cost. This was back when they just bought Paramount Parks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2009111...future+in+doubt A federal appeals court in 2008 reversed a lower court's decision to award Kings Island $20 million in its lawsuit against Son of Beast designer Roller Coaster Co. of Ohio. Kings Island first filed suit in 2000, seeking damages for alleged defective or negligent workmanship. Roller Coaster Co. Ohio is now defunct. A lawyer told The Enquirer in 2006 that Kings Island built the coaster with its own employees, rather than with the company's more experienced builders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyMan98 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I read that full article, it's kind of interesting. It just gives more clues that Son of Beast will not be lurking out of Kings Island's skyline by next year. Or possibly the year after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopThrill Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I wounder what all that wood could be used for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I wounder what all that wood could be used for? Extreme Makeover: Roller coaster edition "CHIPPER! MOVE THAT WOOD!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ki lover Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I really wonder what it would like to be a rider during the 2006 accident.Like if you could see your life flash before before you. I rode it two days before the accident(on friday, happened on sunday). The ride ran great. I wonder what really could have gone on wrong between friday and sunday. I really hate how we don't have very many details about that day. Does anyone know more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlfox_21 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Hey donate the wood to Holiday World. I'm sure they can design a smaller wooden coaster that would be a great ride. Sorry folks. For those of you who recognize my name, you probably have caught on that I don't like to put down Kings Island. But Son of Beast is not a topic regarding park appearances or skylines. It is a topic regarding public safety on a REALLY BIG ROLLER COASTER. One I have refused to ride for years due to it causing pain in my otherwise healthy back. And it is the ONLY ride that I can say that I am not willing to get back on. And I love my roller coasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Let's see what Google Search Suggestions has to say on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Hey donate the wood to Holiday World. I'm sure they can design a smaller wooden coaster that would be a great ride. Sorry folks. For those of you who recognize my name, you probably have caught on that I don't like to put down Kings Island. But Son of Beast is not a topic regarding park appearances or skylines. It is a topic regarding public safety on a REALLY BIG ROLLER COASTER. One I have refused to ride for years due to it causing pain in my otherwise healthy back. And it is the ONLY ride that I can say that I am not willing to get back on. And I love my roller coasters. Not a good idea to donate it, considering it has been proven time and time again to be sub par wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesv7 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I would say it is time for this S.O.B to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I really wonder what it would like to be a rider during the 2006 accident.Like if you could see your life flash before before you. I rode it two days before the accident(on friday, happened on sunday). The ride ran great. I wonder what really could have gone on wrong between friday and sunday. I really hate how we don't have very many details about that day. Does anyone know more? I rode it ealier in the day of the accident. We did not get back to Action Zone after lunch and left probably about 2 PM. I did not know about the accident till a co-worker asked if I was ok. I had no idea why she was asking. The ride seemed fine to me at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I really wonder what it would like to be a rider during the 2006 accident.Like if you could see your life flash before before you. I rode it two days before the accident(on friday, happened on sunday). The ride ran great. I wonder what really could have gone on wrong between friday and sunday. I really hate how we don't have very many details about that day. Does anyone know more? I rode it ealier in the day of the accident. We did not get back to Action Zone after lunch and left probably about 2 PM. I did not know about the accident till a co-worker asked if I was ok. I had no idea why she was asking. The ride seemed fine to me at the time. Well if you read the report, a few pages back by now, it said that the accident was the result of a one time failure. Versus a failure over time. I take this to mean: the wood snapped causing the injuries. Its not like the wood was slowly breaking away causing a worse ride each time. I believe what the report says, and I am too lazy to go back an quote it, that when one train passed over the section, the wood snapped causing the train to dip. When that train returned and informed the ride ops of the incident, and the rough patch, the ride ops closed the line. However, one train was out on the course and when they rolled over the affected section they dipped and had a worse injury than the first. This was the train, I believe, that had more injuries on it. Since the wood was broke at that time and the train rolled through at speed, it caused the severe injury... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I really wonder what it would like to be a rider during the 2006 accident.Like if you could see your life flash before before you. I rode it two days before the accident(on friday, happened on sunday). The ride ran great. I wonder what really could have gone on wrong between friday and sunday. I really hate how we don't have very many details about that day. Does anyone know more? I rode it ealier in the day of the accident. We did not get back to Action Zone after lunch and left probably about 2 PM. I did not know about the accident till a co-worker asked if I was ok. I had no idea why she was asking. The ride seemed fine to me at the time. Well if you read the report, a few pages back by now, it said that the accident was the result of a one time failure. Versus a failure over time. I take this to mean: the wood snapped causing the injuries. Its not like the wood was slowly breaking away causing a worse ride each time. I believe what the report says, and I am too lazy to go back an quote it, that when one train passed over the section, the wood snapped causing the train to dip. When that train returned and informed the ride ops of the incident, and the rough patch, the ride ops closed the line. However, one train was out on the course and when they rolled over the affected section they dipped and had a worse injury than the first. This was the train, I believe, that had more injuries on it. Since the wood was broke at that time and the train rolled through at speed, it caused the severe injury... Well, you asked "I wonder what really could have gone on wrong between Friday and Sunday." You mentioned your experience a few days before, so I gave mine on the day of. I am not sure why my post caused you to explain everything we had already known from before because that had nothing to do with my post. I was just trying to help you answer your question with my experience on the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyMan98 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 This whole thread is confusing. Anyone ever try to read from the beginning, and see how some arguments came to be? I just felt like saying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I really wonder what it would like to be a rider during the 2006 accident.Like if you could see your life flash before before you. I rode it two days before the accident(on friday, happened on sunday). The ride ran great. I wonder what really could have gone on wrong between friday and sunday. I really hate how we don't have very many details about that day. Does anyone know more? I rode it ealier in the day of the accident. We did not get back to Action Zone after lunch and left probably about 2 PM. I did not know about the accident till a co-worker asked if I was ok. I had no idea why she was asking. The ride seemed fine to me at the time. Well if you read the report, a few pages back by now, it said that the accident was the result of a one time failure. Versus a failure over time. I take this to mean: the wood snapped causing the injuries. Its not like the wood was slowly breaking away causing a worse ride each time. I believe what the report says, and I am too lazy to go back an quote it, that when one train passed over the section, the wood snapped causing the train to dip. When that train returned and informed the ride ops of the incident, and the rough patch, the ride ops closed the line. However, one train was out on the course and when they rolled over the affected section they dipped and had a worse injury than the first. This was the train, I believe, that had more injuries on it. Since the wood was broke at that time and the train rolled through at speed, it caused the severe injury... Well, you asked "I wonder what really could have gone on wrong between Friday and Sunday." You mentioned your experience a few days before, so I gave mine on the day of. I am not sure why my post caused you to explain everything we had already known from before because that had nothing to do with my post. I was just trying to help you answer your question with my experience on the ride. Indyguy I was not responding to you, I was responding to KI Lover, I included your post as support for my post. I was explaining to KI lover what the report said. I was not trying to start anything I just thought KI lover didnt read it or know what was happening. I hope no one thought what i said was attacking, just trying to be helpful. We are all fans and yes this thread is slightly long and confusing so sometimes its good to get a re-cap. Not all people know what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTCO Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Man, things aren't looking to go for Sonny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoor Man Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 by the way... my comment a few pages ago was in sarcasm. For what a few seem to be talking about- and someone can correct me- but I don't personally think that this most recent injury was specifically caused by SOB. And largely I think that a lot of the issues surrounding it were corrected by CF and by and large it was deemed to be a safe ride. I still think that, this injury just came with bad timing.... to a usual culprit (SOB). I think that SOB has given it's last ride personally from an insurance standpoint. I think any carrier would be crazy to insure that "train-wreck" and that, more than anything else will play into CF's decision to let it operate. But given the state of the economy and a few other things percolating in the economic paths- I could see SOB- SBNO next year until a plan is devised that will economically bring the structure down. SOB is gigantic and won't be an easy dismanteling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74Gibson Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Aren't they pretty much self insured? They love having titles and massive, groundbreaking coasters (so much so that theming seems to be considered unnecessary). That said, I believe they will do everything possible to keep it. I personally don't have an opinion either way. It's an amazing structure that I have no desire to ride again except because of all the hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyMan98 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Man, things aren't looking to go for Sonny. Has anything ever been looking good for him? I'm not a fan of it, but I still don't want it to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Has anything ever been looking good for him? How true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkroz Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I think that what's important to realize at this point is that there have been many injuries on Son of Beast, and that, in the eyes of the law, only one incident (the structure snapping) has been the fault of the ride. Love it or hate it, that's about the extent to which we know the legal side of Son of Beast's situation. And what do we know from Cedar Fair HQ POV? Zero. People are making outrageous claims about insurance and how the policy on Son of Beast is thousands upon thousands of dollars per week and stuff which, quite frankly, we do not know. The ride has been checked and checked again (you say it has the most checks in DoA history in Ohio, I say all the better to ensure the safety of the ride!) and has been found to be NOT at fault through each check except the 2006 incident. Again, I don't claim to be an insider who knows about insurance policies and management discussions and what percent change the ride has because frankly, I don't know. The official Twitter page said that the 2010 map was being worked on a few days ago. At this point, Son of Beast is either on that map, or it isn't. It's as simple as that. At this point we have no idea what the future holds. Next year, that massive wooden structure will either be standing silently, standing with trains running on it, or removed. If it's either of the first two, we'll be sitting here deciding between the three options for the 2011 season just the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoor Man Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 i could be incorrect- but I seriously doubt they are self-insured. not even companies like P&G are self-insured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Indyguy I was not responding to you, I was responding to KI Lover, I included your post as support for my post. I was explaining to KI lover what the report said. I was not trying to start anything I just thought KI lover didnt read it or know what was happening. I hope no one thought what i said was attacking, just trying to be helpful. We are all fans and yes this thread is slightly long and confusing so sometimes its good to get a re-cap. Not all people know what happened. Not a problem I did not take offense. I agree getting a recap is always good! I did not understand your response at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 From just a page ago!!!! As has been discussed previously in this and other threads, Cedar Fair appears to be self insured.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIBOB Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I wounder what all that wood could be used for? Extreme Makeover: Roller coaster edition "CHIPPER! MOVE THAT WOOD!" ^wow i never noticed how much a wood chipper sounded just like SoB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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