The Son of Beast Discussion Thread

[Fear the Four]

I was saying just how after the first few problems it seemed like everyone started coming up with problems caused by Son of Beast. and good one HTCO.

People did not have to come up with problems for SoB.

The ride has been a problem since day one, and I don't mean day one of operation.

Didn't Son of Beast collapse a few times during construction?

[Diamondback FOF]

Part of the ride was blown over during construction during a storm. I'm not sure about any other incidents.

[Mr. Coastermania]

Has there ever been a ride this big that has drew so many what if's and reopened?

Im sure the park will do not only what's best for them but what is best for the customers.I would love to ride sonny again but not if it puts my life in danger.Lets focus on what good rides they offers and not worry so much about what if's.

[coaster_junky]

yes, and now on the opposite side of the park, you don't have to worry about the if's in life.

[bkroz]

Has there ever been a ride this big that has drew so many what if's and reopened?

Im sure the park will do not only what's best for them but what is best for the customers.I would love to ride sonny again but not if it puts my life in danger.Lets focus on what good rides they offers and not worry so much about what if's.

There are only a handful of roller coasters "bigger" than Son of Beast, first off - in both speed, height, and length, its stats are incredible. And have those few bigger rides drawn "what ifs?" Yes.

You must recall that many roller coasters that beat Son of Beast's stats are manufactured by a certain Swiss company that has very... let's say, unpredictable... ways of reaching those records. If you want to jump right to the biggest and tallest, take Kingda Ka - I just finished posting in another thread about its cable fraying, spraying the train with sparks, overheating engines, engine seal damage, irreversible brake fin damage, lightning strikes, and much, much more. Millennium Force had its lift cable snap at the beginning of last season. Top Thrill Dragster and Xcelerator have sprayed metal shrapnel onto riders. A rider fell to his death from Drop Zone at Great America. Even Disney's California Screamin' saw two trains collide when breaks failed, prompting the same kind of action as what occurred after Son of Beast's 2006 incident. All of these (save Xcelerator, but it's expected to) have reopened and garnered lines that are, for the most part, unaffected by the accidents that preceded.

The reason these problems occur at seasonal parks more than at Universal-esque parks is because Universal heavily utilize B&M - a manufacturer that uses traditional lift hills and steel coasters (save Incredible Hulk, whose launch mechanism they outsourced to another company), and as such, as known as incredibly reliable, safe coasters. Disney, often calls on Vekoma for their coasters, and has a good track record when combined with Disney's spot-on and preventative maintenance.

Keep in mind, small accidents do happen to various riders around the world, and always will. Most are the fault of the rider. But when rides do have serious happenings (see all the events listed above) enough to draw the ride's safety into question, they are closed, re-evaluated, changed where necessary, and often reopened. It would never be fair to say you can ride a roller coaster with no risk of injury, the same way you can't possibly get into a motor vehicle without a risk of injury. Even should the ride be safe, what's to say an airplane doesn't come crashing into it while you're riding? Risk is part of life (if you plan to live a halfway normal life, anyway) and if your plan is to avoid it, you wouldn't make it far enough out of your home to get to Son of Beast, anyway.

[Browntggrr]

Has there ever been a ride this big that has drew so many what if's and reopened?

Im sure the park will do not only what's best for them but what is best for the customers.I would love to ride sonny again but not if it puts my life in danger.Lets focus on what good rides they offers and not worry so much about what if's.

No.

Other rides have had minor mechanical issues, or have caused minor injuries.

But no rides has had SO many different issues over 10 years and still stands today.

[bkroz]

Has there ever been a ride this big that has drew so many what if's and reopened?

Im sure the park will do not only what's best for them but what is best for the customers.I would love to ride sonny again but not if it puts my life in danger.Lets focus on what good rides they offers and not worry so much about what if's.

No.

Other rides have had minor mechanical issues, or have caused minor injuries.

But no rides has had SO many different issues over 10 years and still stands today.

And that's NOT your consistant and unrelenting vendetta against this ride talking, right? Many rides of equal, lesser, and greater intensity have caused more deaths, injuries, and accidents while attaining a more hazardous safety record that still stand today. It's almost unbelievable that anyone would dispute that, with rides like Xcelerator and Top Thrill Dragster spraying metallic shards into people faces. You should have just posted "I hate Son of Beast and I wish it would be torn down" once and been done with it. That's what most of your posts in this thread amount to, after all.

Totaling up the actual injuries caused by Son of Beast, we have a crack in the structure which resulted in a train of people experiencing back problems, and one woman who may or may not have developed an aneurism from the ride. Totaled up, that is all. Any and all other injuries were found to be pre-existing conditions, and hold no more grounds against the ride's safety than any of the dozens of "pre-existing condition" deaths from Mission: Space and Tower of Terror. Is the ride costly? Sure. But to pretend it's some death trap that has cut off limbs and scarred riders and destroyed lives is absolutely silly. It just is. The injuries caused by pre-existing conditions (and even the alleged anuerism suffered earlier this year) might've been triggered by a ride on The Beast had she chosen to ride that first, or even a typical Wild Mouse. We will never know.

Yes, I am all for bringing in Intamin and building a new plug-n-play woodie in its place. But let's not over-exaggerate and pretend it has, straight up, the worst record in all of amusement park history. If any company would immediately shutter any ride that had any negative impact on public safety, it's Cedar Fair. This is proven by the fact that, despite DOA's go-ahead, Son of Beast remained closed. But to say there are no rides on Earth with a such a tarnished record? If that were so, the ride would be torn-down, as many have been.

[kjkjkj]

That's why I like your posts GoodYellowKorn. You take time and write out each one of your posts and put some thought into it. You make some great valid points. You don't just say "I hate that ride, it's a death trap, burn it!!!!11!1!" and on the other spectrum you don't say "Nuh uh, itz so coolz, don't taer it down!!" You write out your posts and put thought into them.

With that being said, everyone on here knows how much I like this ride, and want it to stay. And I agree that it isn't as much of a 'hazard' as a lot of people say it is.

[Beast1979]

As much as I LOATHE Son of Beast, I can say that when I think of "Mechanical Difficulties" at Kings Island, I think Bat and King Cobra before I think Son of Beast. The Bat lasted 4 years and had more downtime relative to lifespan then Son of Beast has had. Of the 4 years it was around, it must have been open a grand total of only a month or two. Son of Beast, compared to that, is very consistently open. From 2002-2006, and 2008 it was very regularly open.

Is it still a money pit? Yes. But it's not like it's the end all be all of theme park failures. And, while we're still on comparing The Bat to SoB, I would bet that if there were forums around in 1983 it would be decided among those who care that The Bat was an over the top, far too elaborate, theme park failure that would never be attempted again at the risk of more mechanical headaches. Then 10 years later Top Gun is added. So perhaps Son of Beast is a hidden jewel who's design needs to be perfected. We shall see, I personally think the idea has a lot of potential....

[bkroz]

I would bet that if there were forums around in 1983 it would be decided among those who care that The Bat was an over the top, far too elaborate, theme park failure that would never be attempted again at the risk of more mechanical headaches. Then 10 years later Top Gun is added. So perhaps Son of Beast is a hidden jewel who's design needs to be perfected. We shall see, I personally think the idea has a lot of potential....

I absolutely agree with that. Many folks complain about Hollywood Rip, Ride, Rockit at Universal Studios Florida for being a mediocre coaster (especially for that particular area). I have said from day one that it works incredibly well as a prototype and will almost doubtlessly spawn many further roller coasters that take the idea and really run with it. I don't think a prototype is what Universal had in mind, but the idea will certainly be copied in years to come, resulting in what I'm sure will be some top ten coasters.

Son of Beast is much the same, in my opinion. A prototype, if you will, of what I'm sure will be perfected one day. With Intamin's new technology, it's just a matter of time before another looping wooden roller coaster makes its way to the foreground (perhaps not tallest / fastest, though it certainly could be since their coasters hold the #2 and #3 spot in those categories, don't they?). With any luck, Kings Island would be the first contacted, and Cedar Fair (or whoever owns the parks) will reach out to be the first. What better place for a new world's first looping wooden roller coaster than on the site of the "failed" prototype?

And, as I've said before, I would relinquish our "next big investment" circa 2012 to tear down Son of Beast and install an Intamin (hyper?)woodie in its place. I really would. You see how far El Toro can go, now imagine it a few feet taller, a bit faster, and with a loop. That's a "world's best" sort of idea, isn't it?

[CoastersRZ]

Well, I see things differently with your last post. (And yes, thanks for providing well thought out posts. It is refreshing to see someone else taking the time and car to craft well defined points).

I doubt we ever see another wooden coaster with a loop. Why? Because it is a gimmick. Wood coasters are not really meant to go upside down. Leave that to steel coasters and designs from the geniuses at B&M and other steel coaster companies. And furthermore, I doubt that Kings Island would be interested in building another wood coaster with a loop involved in the design. And generally, when a park is looking to install a new ride, just like when a developer is looking to build a new building, they will send out a request for proposals (rfp) to various ride manufacturers. It is unlikely, although it is possible, that the manufacturer would come knocking on Kings Island`s door (or the parent company`s door, wherever and whoever that may be at the time). Once a park or developer has the rfps in hand, they will decide which design best fits their budget, needs and marketing desires. They then will fine tune and perfect the designs.

And if Kings Island were to ever get another wooden coaster, I would hope that it would not be from Intamin. I have fallen in love with a wonderful GCI creation down in the foothills of the Smoky Mountains. It has become one of my favorite wooden coasters, and I can honestly say that it ranks right up there in the top of my favorites list. Let the thunder roll!

Beast1979, as far as your subject on The Bat goes. Yes, The Bat did have very frequent operational issues as a result of mechanical problems which stemmed from design issues (among them lack of banking in the turns, and the fact that the brake fins were located on the bottom of the trains and not by the wheel assemblies). However, some of the main differences between The Bat and Son of Beast is that The Bat never had any accidents as a result of deficiencies in the design. And certainly, The Bat was never heavily modified as Son of Beast was. In the case of Son of Beast, the modifications would seem to have not solved the rider comfort issue that has plagued the ride from the time it originally opened ten years ago, back on April 28th, 2000. I was one of those that was able to score a ride on it that first Friday night it was open, before they shut the ride down the first time for several weeks to smooth out an area of rough track. (And even then, the ride ran with one train operation almost until mid summer!) Yes, Son of Beast was a prototype design because it had a loop and broke the 200 foot level. But it was also designed by a company that did not have an extensive track record for critically acclaimed rides.

To think how different things would have been had the park installed a GCI coaster back in 2000! One can dream can`t he? I mean, Kings Island did finally get a B&M coaster.

As the saying goes, bigger isn`t always better. Just look at rides like Thunderhead, or even Tornado at Stricker`s Grove. I could ride the Tornado all day, and not get bored. And need I remind you that the design for that ride is based on the Comet from Rocky Glen (which was designed by John Allen and opened in 1959!!) and is a design that is more than fifty years old!

Gosh, I just wrote a very long post!

[gigacoaster2k]

I was saying just how after the first few problems it seemed like everyone started coming up with problems caused by Son of Beast. and good one HTCO.

People did not have to come up with problems for SoB.

The ride has been a problem since day one, and I don't mean day one of operation.

Exactly. I didn't have to "come up with problems." In my defense, the first time I rode it in 2008, I came off with a VERY bad headache, a few bruises, and my back was absolutely killing me. I had to take several painkillers, and the next day my back was screaming in pain and so stiff that I could barely get out of bed. Same thing happened the second time I rode it. I was 26 years old.. I am far too young to be in that much pain.

The third time I rode it in 2009, I'd had a few beers. I rode in the front seat of the blue train, and it didn't hurt me at all. I loved the smoothness, and the wind in my face. I went back for another ride in that same seat. Then it closed.

There are enough wooden coasters out there that don't put me in severe pain.. in fact, I don't see why anyone who has ridden great woodies like Voyage or Evel Knievel would even so much as give SOB a second glance. Voyage throws me around a bit, but good God in heaven, it's worth it. SOB seems to be like a red wine - you either love it or you hate it. I like a LITTLE roughness in my woodies, but not enough to where you feel like someone is jackhammering your brains and your spine out. I'm still convinced that it's the trains that are wrong for the track. A train shouldn't play ping pong with the edges of the track. That hard shuffling back and forth and slamming into the track at high speeds is just too much for me to take.

I'm divided on the issue. If it reopens, Tom will be ecstatic. In turn, seeing him happy about that would make me happy, along with my other friends that enjoy it. If it doesn't reopen, that's less pain for me and the others who don't enjoy it. Unless it is rehabbed, or I am in the front seat and the front seat only, I will probably never ride it again.

[CedarPointer]

I will admit that, in the front row of the blue train, the ride wasn't incredibly painful. However, it still was not an enjoyable ride experience, in my opinion.

[Beast1979]

I have to agree wholeheartedly, RZ, on the idea that bigger is not always better. I rode Kentucky Rumbler and Thunderhead in 2008 and absolutely adored them. And I honestly did not know that Tornado is a 50 year old design! That's incredible, but I have to wonder if the Cliff was included in that design!

However, the idea of the loop not being recycled because it is a 'Gimmick' I have to disagree with. Because throughout the last 20 years gimmicks are what have brought in the nickels, even though they are gimmicks. Look at King Cobra in 1984. How different is it from any other basic steel coaster then the fact that it has Standup Configuration? Yet, it spawned Shockwave, Sky Rider, a few Intamin Standups, and the numerous B&M standups, each furthering the concept of the standup, but each still being a standup gimmick.

Or, look at Top Thrill Dragster. One trick pony. Farenheit? 97 degree drop and not much else. Yet, it still gets tons of PR and ridership.

So will the loop be used again? Who knows? Because the loop was not a problem in the design and brought a lot of riders to Son of Beast. So if a park sees a wooden loop as a way to bring in nickels, I think it's very well possible that we could see it again.

[Dbfan]

Just to add my two cents:

If they decide to scrap Son of Beast, I will be SOBbing.

Dbfan, who just thought of that...

[coaster_junky]

^^are you saying this fahrenheit is a one trick pony?

though i've not ridden it, it looks more than a 97* drop to me.

[bkroz]

Hopefully something other than Fahrenheit was meant by Beast1979. It's anything but a one-trick pony. Storm Runner? Maybe. Fahrenheit? I don't think so... hahah.

[CoastersRZ]

And that park is another park that I hope to someday visit. So many parks to visit, and so little time and money.

[TylerRider]

In my three rides I have had on Sob, it never even crossed my mind that it was rough. I really enjoy this roller coaster. It seems like every time is closes, they improve it. I would love to see the ride open next year improved. The onlyride that gives me a headach, is Vortex. It knocks around my head. I still love to ride it though.

[Browntggrr]

And that's NOT your consistant and unrelenting vendetta against this ride talking, right? Many rides of equal, lesser, and greater intensity have caused more deaths, injuries, and accidents while attaining a more hazardous safety record that still stand today. It's almost unbelievable that anyone would dispute that, with rides like Xcelerator and Top Thrill Dragster spraying metallic shards into people faces. You should have just posted "I hate Son of Beast and I wish it would be torn down" once and been done with it. That's what most of your posts in this thread amount to, after all.

I have no vendetta against SoB. as it has not personally done a thing to me.

Many rides? SoB has been in existance since 2000. I won't ask for many, how about 2; 2 rides that have had the same reputation as SoB in their first 10 years of existance and still stand today.

Comparing broken sternums to, what happened on both TTD and Xcelerator is apples and oranges. Is it an issue on TTD and XC? Yes. But the people invloved did not miss a days work, and the injuries were compared to bee stings, minus the venom.

And don't try a media spin on my posts. I have never said what you tried to quote. Thanks.

[74Gibson]

Hopefully something other than Fahrenheit was meant by Beast1979. It's anything but a one-trick pony. Storm Runner? Maybe. Fahrenheit? I don't think so... hahah.

RZ, you will love Hershey. GCI's (including their first, Wildcat), great B&M invert, Storm Runner good flats, ambience, etc... Totally worth the drive and you you can add in Kennywood, Idlewood, Dorney and so on.

Fahrenheit felt like a one trick pony to me and the 97 degree drop was nothing compared to the intensity of Maverick's 95. Fahrenheit was suprisingly dull after the first drop. I was totally looking forward to it and very surprised. Storm Runner, on the other hand, Those are some of the most intense inversions I've ever been on. It was non-stop fun. Sure it's a bit short but in no way a one trick pony!

David, who wonders if you've ridden them

[gad198]

And if Kings Island were to ever get another wooden coaster, I would hope that it would not be from Intamin. I have fallen in love with a wonderful GCI creation down in the foothills of the Smoky Mountains. It has become one of my favorite wooden coasters, and I can honestly say that it ranks right up there in the top of my favorites list. Let the thunder roll!

...

And think how different things would have been had the park installed a GCI coaster back in 2000! One can dream can`t he? I mean, Kings Island did finally get a B&M coaster.

I agree that I'd rather see a good Gravity Group or great GCI coaster before another Intamin pre-fab. There are moments on El Toro that are absolutely fantastic (the first three hills, the hill under Rolling Thunder), but there are also times where the ride doesn't do much. GG and GCI coasters don't suffer that same affliction. GG and GCI's will also run you much less than an Intamin pre-fab, and I would think that would be part of the reason why CF has installed GCI's recently (Renegade, Prowler).

Honestly, I'm kind glad that we got SOB in 2000. Yeah, we may have gotten a B&M hyper back then instead but it's my experience that B&M hypers are just getting better as you move through the progression (I think DB, Behemoth and Goliath (SFOG) are the three best B&M hypers to date), so I'd be very hesitant to trade DB for the hyper-behind-door-number-one. Looking back we also could have gotten a GCI creation, Gwazi, which is usually in the roughest wooden coaster discussion. You just never know.

[The Interpreter]

I submit Gwazi would have been just fine in Ohio weather with Paramount maintenance. Weather and being in a park with no wood coaster experience have not helped that thing.

[IndyGuy4KI]

I wonder if the new Timberliner trains would weigh in under the recommended train weight limit for SOB? I think if custom trains were built for SOB, it could be salvaged. Then again this would hinge on CF's willingness to further invest in it. Just a thought!

[bkroz]

I submit Gwazi would have been just fine in Ohio weather with Paramount maintenance. Weather and being in a park with no wood coaster experience have not helped that thing.

On my trip to Florida, Lion was closed for maintenance, but my friend and I agreed that Tiger was one of our favorite wooden roller coasters. In fact, I believe he said it was his #1 coaster (beating out his previous #1, Griffon - he's been on nearly all 100 coasters that I've been on). I wouldn't call it #1, but it certainly was fun. I can only imagine how I'd have liked it if they were dueling!

And keep in mind, Tiger just recently closed for rehab, so we rode it a month or so before it was due to close (which means it was at its worst?) so I would definitely suggest you not take someone's word for it when they say Gwazi (or any coaster for that matter) is awful.

[IBEW_Sparky]

Brad, I honestly dont think GG would want their name associated in any way with S of B. From a business standpoint, would YOU want you or your company's name associated with a ride that has the negative history that S of B does? I know I certainly would not, given the American public's penchant for filing lawsuits, be they frivolous ones or not.

[Cory Butcher]

I happen to be one of those people who has Gwazi in their top 5 wooden coasters!

Thunderhead

Gwazi

The Beast

Hurler

Blue Streak

[Fear the Four]

I wonder if the new Timberliner trains would weigh in under the recommended train weight limit for SOB? I think if custom trains were built for SOB, it could be salvaged. Then again this would hinge on CF's willingness to further invest in it. Just a thought!

I was thinking of that the other day too. I'm not wanting Son of Beast to leave. I only really like front or second seat on Son of Beast. Last time I rode near the back I started having tailbone problems…

[IndyGuy4KI]

Brad, I honestly dont think GG would want their name associated in any way with S of B. From a business standpoint, would YOU want you or your company's name associated with a ride that has the negative history that S of B does? I know I certainly would not, given the American public's penchant for filing lawsuits, be they frivolous ones or not.

I agree, that is something that GG would also have to take into consideration, but has anyone filed a lawsuit against the manufacturer of the current trains on SOB? Since a lot of people blame them for the terrible ride on the on the track anyway?

I think it would be cool to have a current train and a timberliner on the track and be able to ride one after another and see the difference they would make! Just me dreaming away again.

[Cory Butcher]

I agree, that is something that GG would also have to take into consideration, but has anyone filed a lawsuit against the manufacturer of the current trains on SOB? Since a lot of people blame them for the terrible ride on the on the track anyway?

Probably, before discovery, a lawsuit is filed against ALL possible parties. So If you were to sue McDonald's over a hot cup of coffee you would sue the coffee company, McDonalds, the cup maker, the lid maker, the brewery machine maker, and any other possibly affiliated parties!