The Interpreter Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 After the annual meeting, figures have been posted for Mr. Kinzel's compensation for 2009: More than $4 million: http://people.forbes.com/profile/richard-l-dick-kinzel/16769 Mr. Falfas, more than $1.8 million: http://people.forbes.com/profile/jacob-t-falfas/16770 Mr. Crage, more than $1.38 million: http://people.forbes.com/profile/peter-j-crage/16774 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RingMaster Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Imagine how much Mr. Kinzel would make if fountain drinks were suddenly free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan1980 Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 I sure hope he has a finance guy managing his personal wealth ... ... maybe he'll figure out his rich enough to retire comfortably and do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldiesmann Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Nice to know someone's making a fortune... I say they reduce those salaries by about 75% and put the money saved towards the dividend that unitholders are asking for. That would be great for the company's image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplehaze Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Yak! Sorry I choked on My $4.25 Coke while I was reading this/. Pardon me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzarley Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Wow...to put these numbers somewhat into perspective, the CEO of the company I work for (which I won't name here...let's just say that it's a large utility) made $1.25M in salary (info publicly available on Yahoo Finance), and NO bonus in 2009 (because certain organizational goals were not met.) However, that company has a market cap of $16B, had revenues of $13B and EBITDA (Kinzel's fav metric) of nearly $5B. Compare that to CF's poor performance and outlandish compensation for their management, and it looks like the board of directors of the company I work for is getting a really good deal! (Well, either that or...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplehaze Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Wow they make that kind of paycheck and I vie for a $1,000.00 dollar bonus which I never get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 ...meanwhile, as detailed over in the Jack Falfas thread, Q has had to sue to get financial records concerning the proposed (and apparently aborted) refi that it claims it has a right to: http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21800&view=findpost&p=384003 Unless there is something in those records the management does not want Q to know, why would they oppose the release? Especially given that Q has indicated it would sign appropriate confidentiality agreements. What's to hide? What indeed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KI-ORIG-EMP Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Any bonus should be given in stock and not able to be cashed in for at least for 5 years. If the stock drops then the CEO must do more to increase the stock's value as he will benifit in the long run. All salary must be limited to a certain level and rest in stock and or goals must be met before any bonus is given. Also limit the golden parachutes to prevent anybody from being termnated and walking away with a pot of gold, like the CEO of GM did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Yak! Sorry I choked on My $4.25 Coke while I was reading this/. Pardon me Nobody is forcing you to buy food and drink at the park. If you're going to complain to employees, guests, your cat, and everyone else within hearing distance about the prices, please don't. Some of us have to put up with this crap all day long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 ...while making less than two Cokes an hour...at park prices. Others collect parking fees that exceed, on a per car basis, their hourly wage. Which is the primary point of my post.... Equity among employees...equal pay for equal work, etc. Put another way, the point here, in my opinion, is not so much the high in park prices, but the incredible difference in pay between the line workers who are largely responsible for the company's success as opposed to the upper management, who have largely driven the company into the ground, gotten it deep into debt, attempted to sell out the unitholders for $11.50 per unit while unjustly enriching themselves, hired their sons and other kin for high level highly paid positions even though more qualified individuals were available for less money, kept doing the same things that generated success in the past regardless of the outcomes now, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 As an interesting side note, if Mr. Kinzel were an associate making minimum wage, he would have to work 547,945.205 hours to earn his salary- not including taxes taken out. (not that I think he deserves minimum wage, but I just found it interesting.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windshawne Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 ...while making less than two Cokes an hour...at park prices. Others collect parking fees that exceed, on a per car basis, their hourly wage. Which is the primary point of my post.... Equity among employees...equal pay for equal work, etc. Put another way, the point here, in my opinion, is not so much the high in park prices, but the incredible difference in pay between the line workers who are largely responsible for the company's success as opposed to the upper management, who have largely driven the company into the ground, gotten it deep into debt, attempted to sell out the unitholders for $11.50 per unit while unjustly enriching themselves, hired their sons and other kin for high level highly paid positions even though more qualified individuals were available for less money, kept doing the same things that generated success in the past regardless of the outcomes now, etc. It's the same in every company, and its not right. There is absolutely no incentive to do a good job in today's working world. My regular job gives the same raise to the good employees, as they give the slackers (when we even get a raise at all, which as of this moment has been 2 years). I'm trying to figure out if the world has always been this way, or if I just recently pulled my head out of the sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 It is not the same to this degree. The new head of Six Flags (and former CEO of Paramount Parks) is making less than 1/5 of what Mr. Kinzel is...Even by modern corporate standards, Mr. Kinzel & Co. are very well paid. Perhaps it would be different if they were producing stellar results. They are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windshawne Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Which brings up the question, how much is enough? What the hell would one person need with that much money, period? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 Well, there's a fancy house in an amusement park parking lot, a condo in the Bahamas, winter vacations to the Bahamas... None of that is theoretical in Mr. K's case.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkroz Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 To some extent, you can see why there's so much turmoil and such quick turnover among "lower level" employees... As you said, look at the parking attendant. Probably gets paid minimum wage, maybe fifteen cents more. Their job is to watch as car after car after car (so many cars, that the parking lot is filled) pays $10.00 to pass by them. Sometimes they probably get hassled and hear a lot of derogatory things. And for a while, they may think, "Well, its only $10 and you have to pay to park." But a quick scan of the parking lot reveals that the $10 per car is pure income. Because not a cent of it is being spent on the potholes and cracks and gravel of the parking lot... 'So,' they may think, 'where is it going?' A good question... And this topic may be the answer. These people are making less than $8.00 an hour sitting in the sweltering hot sun. In that same hour, they're handed hundreds of $10 bills and probably treated pretty rudely about it. And they know as well as we do where those thousands of dollars a day are going - and it's not towards the parking lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 And at Six Flags, it is even worse. There, that attendant may be collecting $15 per car...or, at some parks, $25 a car...and more.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windshawne Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 To some extent, you can see why there's so much turmoil and such quick turnover among "lower level" employees... As you said, look at the parking attendant. Probably gets paid minimum wage, maybe fifteen cents more. Their job is to watch as car after car after car (so many cars, that the parking lot is filled) pays $10.00 to pass by them. Sometimes they probably get hassled and hear a lot of derogatory things. And for a while, they may think, "Well, its only $10 and you have to pay to park." But a quick scan of the parking lot reveals that the $10 per car is pure income. Because not a cent of it is being spent on the potholes and cracks and gravel of the parking lot... 'So,' they may think, 'where is it going?' A good question... And this topic may be the answer. These people are making less than $8.00 an hour sitting in the sweltering hot sun. In that same hour, they're handed hundreds of $10 bills and probably treated pretty rudely about it. And they know as well as we do where those thousands of dollars a day are going - and it's not towards the parking lot. Exactly so. The lot is in horrid shape. I was at the park today and saw some guy giving the age guess attendant holy heck over the age thing-actually becoming argumentative about it. All he wanted was a freebie. Observe people in the lot as well-its no better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplehaze Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Sorry but he was wrong about my age... hehehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Exactly so. The lot is in horrid shape. I was at the park today and saw some guy giving the age guess attendant holy heck over the age thing-actually becoming argumentative about it. All he wanted was a freebie. Observe people in the lot as well-its no better. I'm sorry, but people who whine to the seasonal associates about prices of anything just annoy me to no end. They can't so ANYTHING about it. At all. End of story. So either buy that $4.25 Coke, or be quiet and drink ice water. I'm not saying that I don't think things are overpriced, but it IS an amusement park... Saying something about it on KIC is a different matter, but there's a fine line between making an observation about prices and making snide comments about it every chance you get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 Exactly so. The lot is in horrid shape. I was at the park today and saw some guy giving the age guess attendant holy heck over the age thing-actually becoming argumentative about it. All he wanted was a freebie. Observe people in the lot as well-its no better. I'm sorry, but people who whine to the seasonal associates about prices of anything just annoy me to no end. They can't so ANYTHING about it. At all. End of story. So either buy that $4.25 Coke, or be quiet and drink ice water. I'm not saying that I don't think things are overpriced, but it IS an amusement park... Saying something about it on KIC is a different matter, but there's a fine line between making an observation about prices and making snide comments about it every chance you get. Then explain $2.99 Funnel Cakes at Holiday World. Or $3.39 hamburgers. Or "free" Pepsi. I'm sorry, but it IS an amusement park. And people do have choices. They can choose to eat in their car...many do. They can choose to leave the park to eat. Many do. They can choose to not come to Kings Island at all...and from attendance trends, many have. Enough do this, and you won't have a job at the park. Guests who complain to associates are trying to give meaningful feedback. Apparently, that isn't welcome. About the same reaction that I hear many get at Guest Relations itself. When senior management is shown the door, it will not surprise me. Customer focused firms empower EVERY employee to take care of customer complaints. As you have demonstrated, you are powerless to do anything about guest complaints, and do not want to hear them. This is not your fault...you merely reflect the attitude management has taught you...guests are inconveniences to be dealt with, not the reason management even has jobs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Then explain $2.99 Funnel Cakes at Holiday World. Or $3.39 hamburgers. Or "free" Pepsi. I'm sorry, but it IS an amusement park. And people do have choices. They can choose to eat in their car...many do. They can choose to leave the park to eat. Many do. They can choose to not come to Kings Island at all...and from attendance trends, many have. Enough do this, and you won't have a job at the park. Guests who complain to associates are trying to give meaningful feedback. Apparently, that isn't welcome. About the same reaction that I hear many get at Guest Relations itself. When senior management is shown the door, it will not surprise me. Customer focused firms empower EVERY employee to take care of customer complaints. As you have demonstrated, you are powerless to do anything about guest complaints, and do not want to hear them. This is not your fault...you merely reflect the attitude management has taught you...guests are inconveniences to be dealt with, not the reason management even has jobs... I agree, but many amusement parks do have overpriced food... you are right, though, there also are quite a few that don't. And it's not that I find guests to be an inconvenience (well, some are, but that's a different story), it's just how they present it. If someone makes a comment about the food prices which wasn't intended to be a dig at us, i.e., they don't seem to be blaming me as an employee for it, or expecting me to magically lower the prices, then I have no problem with it. I do agree that things are overpriced. However, when they insult me, I find it incredibly annoying. I have had to put up with insults directed at me, the park, my coworkers, just about everything except our kitchen sink. THOSE are the guests who I find annoying, NOT the ones who do have a legitimate complaint, or present it in a polite way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 No one should have to put up with abuse...be it from guests, other employees or management. It just bothers me that it is clear that Cedar Fair does not empower its employees at the lowest levels to take care of what are legitimate guests concerns...just as it bothers me how much of a difference there is between executive compensation and line employee compensation at Cedar Fair...it's all indicative of an attitude one doesn't see as much of elsewhere in the park industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windshawne Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 I havent seen a lot, but what I have seen is that associates are friendlier this season, and I felt terrible about the way that guy was talking to that poor kid. There was no excuse for him to be an ass, period. And I'm not whining about the parking lot, it truly is in horrid shape. The potholes can only be patched so many times, and the second weekend they had one direction with an orange cone sitting in the hole in the associate lot-it was big enough to swallow half my forester. If parking fees were being used to maintain and repave the lot, I wouldn't have a problem with the fee even if I was GP-it is very obvious thats not where the funds are going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IceCream329 Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Yak! Sorry I choked on My $4.25 Coke while I was reading this/. Pardon me Nobody is forcing you to buy food and drink at the park. If you're going to complain to employees, guests, your cat, and everyone else within hearing distance about the prices, please don't. Some of us have to put up with this crap all day long. I agree....to be honest I feel that the prices are fair.....not to get everyone mad but if you knew what we have to go through just to get the Coke to the guest you would be shocked... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 See, if it is an issue that I can take care of, then I am happy to take care of it (wrong food being made, something missing when their order is ready, broken refillable cup, etc.). In fact, even if it's 100% the guest's fault, and I can try to take care of it without getting in trouble (I can't give you free food. Sorry.), then I will at least try. But if it's something that I have no control over, all I can say is to talk to Guest Relations about it. It's just not in my control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 I totally understand. I do not have any problem with seasonal associates at Kings Island or any other Cedar Fair park...I do have a problem with how they are treated, what they are paid, and what they are and are not allowed to do to improve guest satisfaction compared to elsewhere in the industry. Season associates are hard working people who do their best to give guests a superb experience. They should be recognized as such, and not just with warm words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 I totally understand. I do not have any problem with seasonal associates at Kings Island or any other Cedar Fair park...I do have a problem with how they are treated, what they are paid, and what they are and are not allowed to do to improve guest satisfaction compared to elsewhere in the industry. Season associates are hard working people who do their best to give guests a superb experience. They should be recognized as such, and not just with warm words. Do you know to what extent seasonal associates can go to improve guest satisfaction? I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 We have been told, in this thread, that associates CANNOT DO anything to address most guest complaints but must send people to guest relations. In addition, at Carowinds, I watched helplessly as manager after manager was called in to try to get me admitted with my Platinum Pass when I had been there the day before, and the system was insistent that I had already been there that day (at 9:15 a.m.). Not one of them was empowered to just let me in. After 20 minutes of this nonsense, I quietly left. That would not have happened at most parks...someone would have been able to override the system and just let me in (as apparently did happen to other KIC'rs later in the season at Cedar Point...finally). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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