homestar92 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 The park's lineup of rides is beginning to look a lot like what you might find in a SIX park... Surely Hart isn't thinking he could sell to them again... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 As in Kentucky Kingdom: The Thrill Park? That version of Six Flags, which went bankrupt, was known for over-investing in roller coasters and over-expansion, while neglecting operations, human capital (people), infrastructure, and the finer details of park operations (service, clean rest rooms, maintenance, etc.). Sound familiar? A critical time is coming for the Kingdom. The State Fair--a revenue and profit challenge, being under the visiting politicos' microscopes, etc. Think of it as an opportunity to excel. Or not. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieseltech20 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 ^ A lot of the issues you cite are caused by cash flow...as in very little being put into operating the park. I'm certain Mr. Hart & Company never intended to operate it this long. And next year's addition is intended to make it more marketable... Another cause is......say it with me......Location, Location, Location. KK isn't exactly in a clean part of the city. Being next to an Airport hurts as well. Strict height restrictions keeps out the super tall rides that so many feel a park MUST have before they or anyone they know will visit. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 It speaks volumes the Fair Board was only able to attract one proposal last go round, and even it wasn't fully responsive. The entire worldwide amusement industry and the best minds in it evaluated the opportunity and passed, except Hart & Company. Then, even after many modifications, only The Bank of Kentucky was willing to lend bank financing, then only a much smaller amount than The New Kentucky Kingdom sought. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricsun Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 ^ A lot of the issues you cite are caused by cash flow...as in very little being put into operating the park. I'm certain Mr. Hart & Company never intended to operate it this long. And next year's addition is intended to make it more marketable... That's what I was thinking but wasn't sure. That does a diservice to what should be a nice park. There is potential. There is a part of it that reminds me of Michigan's Adventure - just a small nice family park. And I will admit that I can be a little picky and notice those little details that others miss. Like there are no signs directing people to the entrance of the park. Spray paint graffiti on a ride sign. With all the trash and state of one restroom, I won't be visiting their water park. One of the ride ops at Skycatcher had to yell his instructions to us because he said his mic was broken. His energy was still high at the end of a very hot day - so they have some good team...just putting them in some not good situations. Again, so much potential. But putting money into a new ride for next year when you could make what you currently have go from "ehh" to "great"? Not a fan of that plan. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 ...the showcase of Kentucky...its State Fair. Coming soon. Kentucky Kingdom gets an opportunity to shine. Will it? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homestar92 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 May head down to the Hartland today... Could go for a few rounds on The Runs. Likely will skip T3. It's mediocre at best and capacity is atrocious with one train. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 T3: and unless it has improved dramatically, the ride is atrocious regardless of the number of trains or length of wait. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoF96" Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 The microphones there are some of the most unreliable I can think of. Off the top of my head just from last year there were times when Flying Dutchman, Roller Skater Thunder Run all had their mikes not working. Not to mention the Bella Musica which worked for a grand total of one day last year. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Mr. Hart gets what he pays for. Quality costs. Cheap stuff is cheap. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homestar92 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 T3 is not running today. Hoping this is so they can put another train on the track, but I'd not hold my breath. Food at Taco Tequila is a joke. Meat is very dry, portions are small. The chips and queso are good, but it's darn near identical to what they have at Hank's. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homestar92 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Looks like they missed some SIX leftovers... 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Why I Be, Coyote! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homestar92 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Already leaving. Park is overcrowded and understaffed. I'll come back in September when they aren't, assuming that they are still here. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Don't they close soon anyway? And I suspect they will be very understaffed in September. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcgoble3 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I think they're open until 9 on Saturdays. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsus Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 As always, Kentucky Kingdom's operating schedule is subject to change without notice. Without any notice at all. Probably even to the employees. Their calendar does, however, currently go out to September. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homestar92 Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Don't they close soon anyway? And I suspect they will be very understaffed in September. Last year in September, they were understaffed, but there were also so few guests that it kinda balanced out. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterfanatic83 Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 For what it is worth, I did see a Kentucky Kingdom billboard in Nashville today. There was a Holiday World billboard, featuring Thunderbird, just down the road. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 The town that once had Opryland. So sad. So very sad. And for anyone to think Kentucky Kingdom--or even Holiday World--is a suitable replacement is sadder still. It is what it is. And Nashville is the poorer for it. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldiesmann Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 They've also got Beech Bend, but given what happened there yesterday I don't know that I'd be too eager to visit that park right now. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindingSon Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Being in the Indy area, I find it hard to even know KK is there. There's a few Kings Island billboards and a few for Holiday World. Kentucky Kingdom? I thought that closed years ago! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBEW_Sparky Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I am not intentionally trying to break down the park when I post, I am very honestly just trying to point out different things for people to look at, and think about. With that said, let me point out that, at this point, all the park has done is released a VERY hastily done and very low quality rendering and animation of the new coaster, and begin deconstruction of the ride formerly known as Twisted Twins. In my eyes, this was/is being done as a "time filler" and as a way to possibly spike the sales of 2016 Season Passes in the HOPES that things go the parks way in November, Mind you, if they do not go the parks way and all State funding of any sort is cut to the park, then all the park is out is the money they will have to pay the Demolition company for the deconstruction of TT. All of this, in my eyes, is a "wing and a prayer" way of boosting revenue for next year in the hopes that there IS a next year. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeastFarmer Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 T3: and unless it has improved dramatically, the ride is atrocious regardless of the number of trains or length of wI I never rode T2, but I will say for me, it is an enjoyable ride. The only rough part of my experience was the turn around to the station. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeastFarmer Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Mr. Hart gets what he pays for. Quality costs. Cheap stuff is cheap. I agree...but from experience, you have to decide where to trim costs. I accepted the challenge of turning around a small company that consistently lost 400-500k/year over a 5 year stretch. I made decisions on what to cut, what to expand and what to maintain. First year on this plan, we were positive 5k, Next year 50k. Cash flow is key and you have to know where to cut. KI evidently has cut budget money from restroom and food service buckets because they both stink pretty bad this year! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeastFarmer Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I am not intentionally trying to break down the park when I post, I am very honestly just trying to point out different things for people to look at, and think about. With that said, let me point out that, at this point, all the park has done is released a VERY hastily done and very low quality rendering and animation of the new coaster, and begin deconstruction of the ride formerly known as Twisted Twins. In my eyes, this was/is being done as a "time filler" and as a way to possibly spike the sales of 2016 Season Passes in the HOPES that things go the parks way in November, Mind you, if they do not go the parks way and all State funding of any sort is cut to the park, then all the park is out is the money they will have to pay the Demolition company for the deconstruction of TT. All of this, in my eyes, is a "wing and a prayer" way of boosting revenue for next year in the hopes that there IS a next year. I appreciate your logic here. But, what comes to my mind is this: 1. Would RMC sign a contract (and it appears this has been in the works for a while; RMC posted surveyor job positions in May, and work on TT deconstruction started in June) and risk not getting paid as well as thier reputation on something so risky if they did not have reasonable assurance of the viability of the park? 2. As I stated in a previous post, in reference to Bluegrass Boardwalk and the Ed Hart groups having about the same terms of contract: I think the political aspect is so far removed. In other words, it is not substantial to the life of Kentukcy Kingdom if a Democrat or Republican is elected governor; the funding portion is already granted as allowed by law. A Republican Governor can not rescind a contract. The Republican party would not want to be cast in the light as the party that closed KK anyway. The mortgage on the property is perfectly legal and the tax incentives are legal and used by other tourist attractions. 3. Maybe the promotional budget is tiny, or maybe they are attempting to underwhelm and over deliver on Storm Chaser. To the readers of this board, I know I probably come across as a fan-man. (I hate the word fanboy!). And to some extent, I am a fan of KK. It has 4 coasters I enjoy, a small park feel, is clean, and I enjoy the plant IDs througout the park. I desperatly want the park to thrive and grow. Not as a replacement for Kings Island, but as an alternative. It also generates significant revenue to the Commonwealth and metro government. Mr. Hart may be a great man, or he may be a scoundrel, but what he has created there is nice for me, my friends and family and many enthusiasts I have talked to. It will never replace KI (I'm on visit 16 for the year, I think I have been to KK 4 times this year) and rightly so. My childhood memories are of KI. KK has a LONG way to go, but I firmly believe it will make it. I hope is does not get sold back to SIX, that would suck. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 You disregard the pure contempt and hatred of both Louisville in general and the Democrat party in particular in most of rural Kentucky. Rescuing Kentucky Kingdom is a political move by Governor Beshear and his old pal and crony Bruce Lunsford...for many years a high Democrat official and one time opponent of Mitch McConnell. Nothing would make the other party happier than watching Lunsford (and Hart) and Louisville suffer. Not to mention the park itself has its own financial struggles--the Fairgrounds and fair are on a very short leash after last year's debacle--and Kentucky Kingdom got a great deal of the...credit (?)...for that. Make no mistake, the election is a key milestone for that park. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medford Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I am not intentionally trying to break down the park when I post, I am very honestly just trying to point out different things for people to look at, and think about. With that said, let me point out that, at this point, all the park has done is released a VERY hastily done and very low quality rendering and animation of the new coaster, and begin deconstruction of the ride formerly known as Twisted Twins. In my eyes, this was/is being done as a "time filler" and as a way to possibly spike the sales of 2016 Season Passes in the HOPES that things go the parks way in November, Mind you, if they do not go the parks way and all State funding of any sort is cut to the park, then all the park is out is the money they will have to pay the Demolition company for the deconstruction of TT. All of this, in my eyes, is a "wing and a prayer" way of boosting revenue for next year in the hopes that there IS a next year. I appreciate your logic here. But, what comes to my mind is this: 1. Would RMC sign a contract (and it appears this has been in the works for a while; RMC posted surveyor job positions in May, and work on TT deconstruction started in June) and risk not getting paid as well as thier reputation on something so risky if they did not have reasonable assurance of the viability of the park? I will start by saying I have no idea how their particular contract is worded, nor how a typical construction/design contract is setup in the amusement park industry. However, having work in the design/build side of commercial real estate, I'd guess its not to different (for whatever its worth, I'm much more on the design side, what I know from the contract side is just stuff I pick up in "passing" thru the years, so fill in the blanks where needed). In what I do, most work is payed in monthly installments, as the work is complete. For ease of conversation, lets say a project is negotiated at 12 million and at the end of the 1st month of construction, 10% of the job has been completed, you get paid 10% of the 12 million, or $1.2 mil. Lets say the next month of construction, another 30% of the job has been completed, so you get $3.6 mil, etc... until the job is completed. Typically there is a retainage held back until the owner has taken over and deemed everything satisfactory (there is always "punchlist" items that come up for small fixes here and there), typically 10%. Now, in what I do, I don't get paid squat (by the client anyways) for any of my design work as it occurs, so if I spend 3 weeks in design, then the job falls thru, the company I work for doesn't get paid for my effort. However, the architects don't actually build anything, just put together and coordinate documents so that various trades can go and build the building. I am assuming that a company like RMC would work similarly to an architect on the design phase of a coaster. They'd turn over their designs to structrual people to design the supports, civil people to design the site work, architects to design the station, etc... Some of that may be done in house at RMC, for Banshee, a local company (to cincy anyways) was in charge of designing all of the supports for the rides (they've done similar work for other Cedarfair projects) So anyways, my point is, that most people get paid as the work moves along, so for the demo guys, if the check from KK doesn't come in, they pull off the job and file a lien against the park. Thankfully, most of the clients I have worked for hold up their end of the bargin and payment has only been an issue on one project that I've worked on. On the one that it was an issue, the owner of my company had to push and push for payment, which eventually lead to law suits and federal charges for the General Contractor who was up to all kinds of no good. We still worked on the "come" to an extent, as did most trades on the job, but eventually patience and broken promises wears thin. I'd guess that the guys doing the demo work are getting paid at the moment, otherwise they'd be pulling off the job. Same on the design side, which may explain the lack of fancy graphics, it likely just wasn't in the budget to go all in like most parks do for their promo videos. If you are not going to get paid for a high end visual, you are not going to get a high end visual. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRider Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 The town that once had Opryland. So sad. So very sad. And for anyone to think Kentucky Kingdom--or even Holiday World--is a suitable replacement is sadder still. It is what it is. And Nashville is the poorer for it. Still to this day I am saddened when I drive through Nashville and see the Briley Parkway exit. I spent so many Summers and Christmas' as a child visiting Opryland and the Opryland Hotel, too see the park paved over to put up a mall still bothers me to this day. A mall that was nowhere near the goldmine Gaylord thought it would be. Dollywood is as close as there is to Opryland and one of the main reasons I love that park so much today. Still it was a very unique and amazing park that is still missed to this day by many. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsus Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 ^^ If you're referring to Clermont Steel Fabricators, they're B&M's steel fabrication contractor. They take the steel and build the support columns and track segments to B&M's specs. They're not involved in the design of the project, they just build the pieces.B&M does contract out some design and engineering work, last I heard, but those projects tend to stay over in Europe. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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