The Interpreter Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Gee, all that you just said was in that article you so criticized before. Even more, as in the Lunsford vs. Beshear relationship. There's a great deal of rosy scenario in Hart's proposal. How can you run a major thrill park on only $2.5 million capex a year, INCLUDING deferred maintenance? That's what's in there for years 3-30. It also clearly states the waterpark is going to be the major draw for season passholders. Passes that are only going to cost $60. In that neighborhood. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 It woulod seem Ed Hart has taken the smartest path here, releasing his proposal for the public to read, that way the state cannot say that the park is junk and should be torn down, as that is clearly not the case. I would disagree. After reading through Hart's proposal, the cost of refurbishing those rides really adds up and that's just with the estimated price which could very well come in at a much higher cost. A wise member on this site once said you can learn more from what isn't being said than what is. The fact that Holiday World walked away even with the local government's support speaks volumes. I suspect the fair board, and likely politicians in the state want the land for something else. Pretty sad state of affairs, when you have to try to pull the wool over everyone's eyes so you can get in the pocket of another corporation or business venture. From what I've seen, the Fair Board isn't involved with this proposal and no one in the Commonwealth Government seemed to like Hart's proposal last time. If you're going to accuse them of "pulling the wool over everyone's eyes" in order to "get in the pocket" of someone, how about some details? Who exactly are they trying to help out by not saving Kentucky Kingdom? It doesn't add up. - Hart's initial proposal failed to secure investors and he walked away. - Holiday World came in and had the necessary government and financial support - began inspecting the place and abruptly walked away, now remaining quiet on the issue. - Now Hart is back with all kind of numbers that no official seems to be taking seriously. - The number of "other proposals" from other "potential operators" won't be released. My guess is there weren't any. When no other operator is interested and the only one who was walked away - I think that spells out the fate of KK right there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Doubtful current proposal could be approved in present form: http://www.whas11.com/news/local/State-officials-Committee-to-evaluate-Harts-Kentucky-Kingdon-proposal-175686071.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sccard01 Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Hopfully it's approved. The specuation going on really shows that everyone/most people here in the Louisville area misses the Kingdom. http://fatlip.leoweekly.com/2012/10/24/finance-cabinet-says-stop-speculating-about-kentucky-kingdom-trust-us/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrypt Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Many (some) people like Son of Beast. What happened there? Geauga Lake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrfyter Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 It woulod seem Ed Hart has taken the smartest path here, releasing his proposal for the public to read, that way the state cannot say that the park is junk and should be torn down, as that is clearly not the case. I would disagree. After reading through Hart's proposal, the cost of refurbishing those rides really adds up and that's just with the estimated price which could very well come in at a much higher cost. A wise member on this site once said you can learn more from what isn't being said than what is. The fact that Holiday World walked away even with the local government's support speaks volumes. I suspect the fair board, and likely politicians in the state want the land for something else. Pretty sad state of affairs, when you have to try to pull the wool over everyone's eyes so you can get in the pocket of another corporation or business venture. From what I've seen, the Fair Board isn't involved with this proposal and no one in the Commonwealth Government seemed to like Hart's proposal last time. If you're going to accuse them of "pulling the wool over everyone's eyes" in order to "get in the pocket" of someone, how about some details? Who exactly are they trying to help out by not saving Kentucky Kingdom? It doesn't add up. - Hart's initial proposal failed to secure investors and he walked away. - Holiday World came in and had the necessary government and financial support - began inspecting the place and abruptly walked away, now remaining quiet on the issue. - Now Hart is back with all kind of numbers that no official seems to be taking seriously. - The number of "other proposals" from other "potential operators" won't be released. My guess is there weren't any. When no other operator is interested and the only one who was walked away - I think that spells out the fate of KK right there. Holiday World wants to own the park, not lease it, just like their other park. There was no way in heck that was ever going to happen. If they thought they were going to be able to buy the park, they are the ones who screwed up. They openly admitted this when they terminated the agreement. They couldn't make money with leasing the park. Why not? Too much overhead, what were they doing wrong, etc? You can learn more from what isn't being said. With that said, Hart's release of figures and documentation shows that the park is not a scrap heap ready for the wrecking ball, as some politicians at the state level seem to think. The state is losing its rear to Indiana and Ohio when it comes to gambling. They want Casinos in KY, and the KK property has been mentioned several times as a great place for a new Casino. I think you are right that there are no other proposals. I figured that would be the case, but the recent news release from the state seems to indicate that. Add insult to injury, and a Financial Audit of the Fair Board shows they have lost $9.5M in FY2011-2012. Having a closed amusement park that could help generate back some of that money from leasing, parking, operations, etc. can't be helping the situation. http://www.wave3.com...state-fairboard Also, the KY State Fair Midway was a lot more fun when it incorporated all of KK including the 100 or so extra rides they brought in every year. I guess the good news is, in the end there are always other parks in need of the same kind of Ed Hart help, some in more touristy areas, that may be feasible. Like Freestyle, perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 ...because he did such an incredible job at Magic Springs, right? How'd that work out? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieseltech20 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Ed Hart only wants one thing, money. He will do and say whatever it takes to get his hands on KK. Most everyone else that has seen the park as it currently sits will tell you, it is indeed a Trash Heap. Was just talking about this park with a group of people last night. They all agreed that the rides were not enjoyable and the park should just go away. The few die hard fans however, continue to keep their Blinders on. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrfyter Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Ed Hart only wants one thing, money. He will do and say whatever it takes to get his hands on KK. Most everyone else that has seen the park as it currently sits will tell you, it is indeed a Trash Heap. Was just talking about this park with a group of people last night. They all agreed that the rides were not enjoyable and the park should just go away. The few die hard fans however, continue to keep their Blinders on. Yes currently that is true. The park is run down. Six Fs did nothing to help this park out at all. All they did was dismantle, destroy, devalue, diminish, and drive off. When it was run by Hart and in its Hayday in the early 90s it was tons of fun to go to. The rides were very enjoyable, and I enjoyed it very much for the numerous weekends I spent there. I look forward to hopefully enjoying that again with my own family. Everyone is expected to make money, otherwise why would you do it? Obviously he has some skill at this, considering he brought KK back from the brinck the first time around. ...because he did such an incredible job at Magic Springs, right? How'd that work out? The parent company sold the park when it was worth more, and the new owners picked someone else to run the park. How is this a bad thing? If he couldn't turn it around that would be one thing, but all the articles I read said something else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sccard01 Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 IMO Ed Hart doesn't care about making $$$ of a reopen Kingdom, It's just very personal. We all know this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Hart, Commonwealth To Meet Next Wednesday: http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20121031/NEWS01/310310118/State-finance-officials-Hart-set-meeting-discuss-Kentucky-Kingdom-proposal http://www.whas11.com/news/local/State-to-sit-down-with-K-176667811.html The State's counsel has questions about Hart's proposal.... http://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/news/2012/10/31/ed-hart-to-discuss-kentucky-kingdom.html?full=true Mr. Hart, in his usual inimitable fashion, chooses to characterize this meeting as 'negotiations.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrfyter Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Add some insult to injury. Glad to see the fair board really doesn't have a clue, except the best way to waste taxpayers money.... http://www.wave3.com/story/19942629/380000-bill-for-taxpayers-since-kentucky-kingdom-shut-down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 No. The best way would be to lose even more by letting the property go to pot. Oh, wait.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Editorial: The Mystery of the Closed Park: http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20121102/OPINION01/311020051/Editorial-mystery-closed-park?odyssey=nav%7Chead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 If someone thinks this is a good way to influence state government in Kentucky, I fear they are sadly mistaken: Fake Fish Prods For Reopening Kentucky Kingdom: http://m.wfpl.org/#mobile/2340?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Kentucky+Kingdom%22&hl=en&tbo=d&gl=us&tbm=nws&source=lnt&tbs=sbd:1&sa=X&ei=nl2YUO2pMJGC8ASF9oD4Dw&ved=0CCQQpwUoAQ&biw=320&bih=416&utm_campaign=/post/fake-fish-prods-reopening-kentucky-kingdom 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcgoble3 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 If someone thinks this is a good way to influence state government in Kentucky, I fear they are sadly mistaken: Fake Fish Prods For Reopening Kentucky Kingdom: http://m.wfpl.org/#m...entucky-kingdom I laughed so hard at that that it took me four clicks to hit the Like button on your post because I couldn't hold my hand steady. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Today is the day Mr. Hart is to answer State questions about his proposal. Mr. Hart chooses to categorize this meeting as negotiations. The Commonwealth may very well be attempting to determine if it received any "responsive" proposals. If Mr. Hart's proposal is not determined to be responsive, the Commonwealth can choose to attempt to negotiate an acceptable proposal, consider only responsive proposals if there were any, or declare the process complete and move on to consider what use to make of the property or how to dispose of it, including the land, rides and buildings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Note the absence of crowing and self-promotion from Mr. Hart and his associates after yesterday's meeting. This likely means one of three things: (a) things went swimmingly and intense negotiations are underway, which Mr. Hart wisely does not want to endanger, ( b ) questions were asked, answers were given, and the Commonwealth is pondering what to do next, or ( c ) Mr. Hart was told his proposal is unresponsive, and in a rare instance of humility, for him, he's licking his wounds and pondering litigation. C is probably the least likely. My guess is b. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrfyter Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I would go with A or B. I suspect if anything has anything to say about it, there will be some kind of news in the coming days. I can't see either party wanting to stretch this out over too long. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrfyter Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 One week, and zero news. I'd call that negotiations. Maybe this is closer to thought A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Governor Beshear Hopeful Deal Can Be Reached To Reopen Kentucky Kingdom: http://www.whas11.com/news/local/Gov-Beshear-hopeful-deal-can-be-reached-to-reopen-Kentucky-Kingdom-180229271.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldiesmann Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 It doesn't surprise me that he'd be "hopeful" that a deal could be reached. Re-opening the park means more jobs, another attraction to draw tourists to the state, more tax dollars and more money for the state since it sits on state-owned land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Given the Governor's previous statements and the timing, along with the quiet from all sides, I'd say the state has found Mr. Hart's proposal nearly but not quite acceptable. The Governor's statement appears to be an attempt to nudge Mr. Hart and his associates to an acceptable deal and/or protect the Governor's political flanks should no deal be reached--"We tried, and I wanted it to work, honest!" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Expect action on this soon. Recent silence has been deafening, significant and rather curious. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 What type of action are you expecting, Terpy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Either a deal or a bust...in which latter case some other use for the property will be explored. At this point, I'd say the chances are 50/50. If there is a deal, I really do not see the park succeeding unless, as SIX had planned, the dry park is essentially eliminated. The park's future, if any it has, is, in my opinion, as a waterpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 ^And I would say even Holiday World agreed with the waterpark sentiment when they realized opening the ride's side wouldn't be worth their time initially if at all. Holiday World wants to own the park, not lease it, just like their other park. There was no way in heck that was ever going to happen. I don't think Holiday World ever had intentions of owning the park and knew that wasn't going to happen. Why would the state sell off that land to them? They wouldn't to Hart initially, wouldn't to Six Flags and I doubt they'd do it to a new operator. They sit on the Fair Board firmly knowing they have a cushy deal: "We own the land and get a large cut, what's left is yours." Six Flags said "screw it" and left.Holiday World made it very clear and public that they were in lease negotiations, not ownership negotiations. They had a deal in place, only after they toured the park did their announcements about "ride experts" deeming it not a viable pursuit for them and they backed off the Lease deal. After going through Hart's estimates for some of the repairs, I'd think some of these are not at all accurate, inflated or grossly underestimated. Having been in the park, legally, myself and seen it with my own eyes. For T2 it makes no mention of needing new trains. Are they planning to repair the one in pieces in the station and scattered under the ride in the grass? Same with Thunder Run. You can't tell me that the train currently sitting on the track (and it has been for several years now), unprotected, not winterized, with most of its valuable parts stripped off is in any condition to run.I'd like to see the park succeed, I think it's beautiful little place. However, if it does - I bet it'll be a waterpark. These days though it looks like the state has had enough of Hart, the Fairboard and the mess the park situation has become. Gambling is the new tourist attraction, but is KY too late?Edit: On another note, to those thinking this is all very personal to Mr. Hart. I'm sure it is, but I don't think it's for the same reasons you do. I think it's personal on a political level to him, I think he feels burned at being rejected before and watching the state negotiate with Holiday World. Ed Hart is not Walt Disney. He didn't return to his beloved Bluegrass home in order to restore his "Kingdom." He's here because he sees a business opportunity, one he's familiar with and in a location where his name is known. If he plays his cards right - he looks like the hero and the politicians look like they want to keep the park closed. Maybe he ultimately believes he can turn the park around. But if he loved it so much in the first place, why did he sell it to Six Flags?Money.He's a businessman through and through. That's not an insult, more of a compliment. Like Mike Brown - people think the guy is downright evil, but the guy makes money, and a good lot of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrfyter Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 After going through Hart's estimates for some of the repairs, I'd think some of these are not at all accurate, inflated or grossly underestimated. Having been in the park, legally, myself and seen it with my own eyes. For T2 it makes no mention of needing new trains. Are they planning to repair the one in pieces in the station and scattered under the ride in the grass? Same with Thunder Run. You can't tell me that the train currently sitting on the track (and it has been for several years now), unprotected, not winterized, with most of its valuable parts stripped off is in any condition to run. If you read the PDF, then you didn't read all of it. Pages 25 & 26 address both the items you mentioned. First T2 - Two new trains at a cost of 2.2 million, and Thunder Run, rehab of current trains, costing 30k. http://www.kentuckykingdom.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/KKRC_ResponseOct2012w.pdf 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Both Sides Still Mum: http://www.whas11.com/news/local/Both-si-181692811.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sccard01 Posted December 12, 2012 Author Share Posted December 12, 2012 Kentucky Kingdom deal expected, Gov. Steve Beshear says... http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20121211/NEWS01/312110096/Kentucky-Kingdom-deal-expected-Gov-Steve-Beshear-says?odyssey=nav|head 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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