davidw Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I think the fact that they aren't doing much on the back half or the coaster is a sign that there isn't going to be trim brakes? If they had to run the electrical to those, you would think they would want the track in place as fast as they could. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executioner822 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 even though the videos dont show trim brakes, i have a feeling there may be some in the back half especially after the 2nd dive loop because its so big. this is just a guess though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted December 10, 2013 Author Share Posted December 10, 2013 I am pretty sure that in a walk back tour it was stated there would be no trims. I could be wrong on this! 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 It was certainly stated there would be no midcourse brake (nor midcourse break). 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanofFirehawk Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I think the fact that they aren't doing much on the back half or the coaster is a sign that there isn't going to be trim brakes? If they had to run the electrical to those, you would think they would want the track in place as fast as they could. Wouldn't they have to run electricity back there regardless of trims, they'd want at least some sensors back there right? A fan who could be wrong. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedevariouseffect Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Crews are really ganna have to be top notch to keep trains spaced right to hit interval and not stack... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldschool75 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 It was certainly stated there would be no midcourse brake (nor midcourse break). Yeah, this is definately not SOB. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Crews are really ganna have to be top notch to keep trains spaced right to hit interval and not stack... And guests will have to not carry birdcages to be stowed in the station, along with cups, hats, small prizes, big prizes, basketballs, back packs.... 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedevariouseffect Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Yes. Gatekeeper policies need enacted 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flightoffear1996 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I don't see why they would need sensors in the back of the ride. Its not like a train will be able to go down the first drop until the other train is on the brake run anyway. If the train doesn't make if from lift to brake run in a certain amount of time given some leeway the computer will know a train has stalled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 It was certainly stated there would be no midcourse brake (nor midcourse break). From my uderstanding, there wont be a true MCBR, but it looks like the final brake run will be longer. This should allow them to use 3 trains. I don't see why they would need sensors in the back of the ride. Its not like a train will be able to go down the first drop until the other train is on the brake run anyway. If the train doesn't make if from lift to brake run in a certain amount of time given some leeway the computer will know a train has stalled.The only electric i can think that they would have back there would be lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creed Bratton Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I don't see why they would need sensors in the back of the ride. Its not like a train will be able to go down the first drop until the other train is on the brake run anyway. If the train doesn't make if from lift to brake run in a certain amount of time given some leeway the computer will know a train has stalled. What if Diamondback didn't have the sensors in the back of the ride? Sensors are another safety system. Not to mention they tell the crew where the trains are at all times. Suppose something bad were to happen.....and the train didn't come back...yeah people would be able to run to see where it was, but to be able to pinpoint the last location is a good idea. Also, a train may not have to be in the brake run before a train could leave the lift. It is possible and has been done on several rides where the train leaves before the last train sent out is back in the station or on another set of blocks at the end. Sensors will also allow for the system to count how many full circuits a train has completed for capacity counting, maintenance needed, etc. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedevariouseffect Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 ^Yup.. Also those sensors in the later portion of the ride can be used to measure speed, ect. as well, theres alot of important variables a few sensors can monitor at various points of the ride. I will say what ride will the train drop off the lift into the circuit with another train not cleared of the first safety brake (main brake in KI speak). Thats two trains in the same block. I could see it passing and possibly trimmed first brakk, then stopped in the second brake to clear the block to let the next train advance on the lift and drop off into the circuit. Like I said, this is very odd to see a B&M invert of this size with no MCBR, I'll be anxious to see how operations work on this ride and how crews handle everything that's new about this at KI. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medford Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I don't know if this has been posted elsewhere (it probably has) but Kings Island's website officially confirms that the height requirement on Banshee will be 52 inches. This is yet another way Banshee improves upon other inverted roller coasters (which typically have a 54 inch requirement). This news isn't too surprising though, since Gatekeeper, which has the same restraint system, also has a 52 inch requirement for riders. Thanks, I have been waiting for that information. Our oldest hit 40" around his 3rd birthday (yeah Beastie), 44" around his 4th (yeah Flying Ace, Arial Chase) and 48" around his 5th (yeah Beast!). Didn't think he had a shot to get on that next season and have been prepping him for it every time he asks saying he was going to have to wait at least 1 seasons. If trends hold, he may just get on it mid-summer next year. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBEASTunchained Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Construction work going on under the station for Banshee..... (Photo Courtesy of Kings Island) 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTCO Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Yes. Gatekeeper policies need enacted While I do agree with you, KI and CP have its own different policies. Until KI looks at these policies and decides to act on them, you won't see much of a change. Hopefully the 2014 season brings that change. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gad198 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Like I said, this is very odd to see a B&M invert of this size with no MCBR, I'll be anxious to see how operations work on this ride and how crews handle everything that's new about this at KI. The two largest B&M rides I can think of that have a combination of long layouts with no MCBR are Goliath at SFOG and Leviathan. Goliath is a two-train operation coaster and has a lower theoretical capacity than Banshee will, but Goliath can still move close to 1300 pph with a good crew. Leviathan and Behemoth move approximately the same volume of people (theoretical capacity is around 1500 pph and I've personally seen them get to that mark), even though the latter has a MCBR while the former does not. My wish on Banshee is that they use a two speed lift like they have on Goliath. Have a slower setting for the initial portion of the lift to allow the train on the course to clear the first block at the end of the course and then speed up when the train on the course does clear through the final brake block. It would allow the operators to send trains out from the station more quickly and get the next available train unloaded and loaded sooner. I trust B&M has got all that figured out and they'll still be able to move tons of people through. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel_SoB_fan Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Flight deck or The Bat has that 2 speed lift as well Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedevariouseffect Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I'm thinking that's how it's going to run. See several coasters w/ no MCBR (Millie, the ones listed above, ect.) However. For brakes I believe there is going to be a safety, a trim, a hold brake, pre transfer, transfer table, ready brake, and station. That is the most ideal I can see for blocking and what I can kinda see based off of the slightly not perfect renderings. I don't have shots of the brake run to accuratly see how they will do blocking, but just an educated guess. If it's two speed, they can dispatch at/after interval, and when block clears, next train can drop off of the lift. Ideally you want the previous train to clear the first brake (safety brake) and be in the next block clearing from lift crest-safety brake. This will allow the train on the lift to reach the lift crest and drop off without setting up the blocks. Hitting interval on this may be a slight issue, we will see. Hopefully if this thing runs with the smooth technology and policies like Gatekeeper. Only thing that was nice w/ Gatekeeper is B&M designed that for operations perfectly. After a train drops off of the lift into the first loop, the next train is able to be sent thanks to MCBR and perfect ride timing. So every 45 seconds or so that train can be sent, and it has been done easily. Having three crewmembers per side, easy restraints, lack of most loose articles, an efficient ride PLC, a great computer safety backup, and very well trained operators makes for fantastic efficiency 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChainDog Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Trim brakes or no trim brakes, I'm sure KI and B&M have designed the ride so that maximum hourly capacity is reached. I highly doubt that if there were no trim brakes, that it was something overlooked by B&M. Whatever there happens to be in the back half of the ride, will not inhibit ride experience or your wait time. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedevariouseffect Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 No, trim brakes aren't my worry. It's lack of MCBR. Honestly having a MCBR really doesn't have to slow things down or anything. it's just nice to separate the ride block. More blocks means more trains can mutually move. Having one block just for the lift, one from lift crest to first brake means you can't have something in between. Take Diamondback for instance. One trainc can go up the lift and hit crest right after one passes the MCBR, one drops off the lift, and partway into the course the next can be dispatched keeping the lift block occupied, one train moving easily through the brakes and station, and one on the lift/first half of the ride. The MCBR really does nothing more in my perspective on the ride then allow more efficiency. I unlike most people don't think it distracts from the ride experience. if honestly I enjoy them...nice and calm straight, to bam downhill track. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanna Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Construction work going on under the station for Banshee..... (Photo Courtesy of Kings Island) Duty to your job is one thing, but it's COLD out there. Thanks for the pic, now get inside! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gplez90 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 @thedevariouseffect, here's a few pics of the final break run i took during a construction tour on closing day if it help! 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoF96" Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Could the lift not simply work in a similar way The Beast does? instead of like on The Bat where it has a set slow point. The chains speed could be dependent on where train in front is at. when getting on The Beast you never know if you are going to make a 30 second climb or a 30 minute climb (exaggerated). It all depends on how fast or slow the crew is sending trains out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB1 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I would imagine that as a good idea. If the lift is anything like Diamondback, it will be fast, so the most logical idea would to have that form of chain. I'd like to almost see it have an fast chain lift up, and slow down at the top before the drop just to get a feel of what you are about to experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KingsIslandPR Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 The engineers who designed the ride have it figured out. 33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedevariouseffect Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 ^Oh no doubt. They could tell us anything about it.. But it's the decoding,a nd the background stuff we look at...Plus me being in prior operations I want to see how this will work. Also I want to see if it works as safely and efficiently as possible Always curious, always wanting to know how it all works, that's the engineering side in me. Btw while you're on this topic have they installed the chain on the lift yet or no? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrealNightmare Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Just look at how Dueling Dragons lift hill worked. When the trains used to race they would change the lift hill speeds to get them to race and meet at their fly by zones at the perfect times. I heard they also had some sort of weight sensor as well so they could offset them just a bit so they would still meet at those locations just in case one train was heavier then the other. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ Kinda Guy Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 ^Oh no doubt. They could tell us anything about it.. But it's the decoding,a nd the background stuff we look at...Plus me being in prior operations I want to see how this will work. .. Your extensive background in ride operations clearly makes you an expert. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedevariouseffect Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 You keep trying to bash my interest and knowledge in this.. Did you also know I tried to work on doing a Bachelors in Mech. Engineering. Or that I am working on my associates here with the AF as we speak... You can keep knocking left and right for lack of better words again just being a prick, but if you look at what I've said above, it does make sense, and I bet will be very similar to the finished product. All we need to do is wait and see. If so I'll come back here in a few months & say I told you so if it is similar in design for blocking... Until I see you post your knowledge here to help us decode and figure stuff out and contribute to discussion, not ridicule myself or others with assinine comments I don't really care what you have to say.. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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