Why does nobody like Dick Kinzel?

[KIFan1]

How come nobody like Dick Kinzel? Everywhere I look, people just say stuff like he ruined KI and he overstayed his welcome? Can someone explain to me why people feel this way?

[BoddaH1994]

He was a great leader for Cedar Fair for many years. He did many great things in his career.

To be honest, by the time the company acquired Paramount Parks, he was out of touch with both his company and the economic conditions in which his company existed. I think it might have had to do with his age. Do you know how Terpy always makes references to nickles? The origin of that was how he touted that he was going to raise prices by "a few nickles" because he didn't think people noticed (this ended up being far more than a few nickles) and stated that he could essentially charge what he wanted for food items because, "people gotta eat."

The real nail in the coffin was when he tried to sell the company to Apollo Global Management. Stockholders would have taken a short sale while he would have walked off with a golden parachute. Fortunately a company called Q Investments immediately started buying up FUN stock and forced a stop to it.

[westcoaster]

A great for him was he bought Kings Island, a big deal.

[rhyano]

Well many people say that because of what happen to Geauga Lake and how the Big Dipper is still standing.

[faeriewench]

There is far worse than Kinzel in existence, imo.

Looking at you Marineland Canada and your boss...

[homestar92]

And don't get the idea that there's nothing we like about Kinzel. He played a big part in making Cedar Point "America's Roller Coast" as he led Cedar Point to a lot of coaster installations, from Magnum all the way to Maverick. Which, in turn, was actually good for those who visit Kings Island as their home park, because it was pretty stiff competition for a long time, and the parks were basically in a constant battle of one-upsmanship (is that a word?) for a long time. So, perhaps indirectly, he also had a big part in making Kings Island what it is today.

Also, he loves trains, and he had a lot to do with the train at Cedar Point being taken care of as well as it was.

[The Interpreter]

* His laundry allowance, paid in addition to his salary, was more than 95 percent of seasonals made.

* He allowed Cedars and the other employee housing at Cedar Point to fall into terrible disrepair. Same for Breakers.

* He ran a worldwide competition to hire a new General Manager at Carowinds...and chose his son. To say the younger Kinzel was utterly unqualified given his history would be kind.

* He fired employees at the drop of a hat, including his brilliant right hand man, Jack Falfas. Then he lied about it. Mr. Falfas sued, and won.

* He thought Blackberries were toys, and when Paramount Parks was acquired, he got rid of most of them.

* He put his son-in-law in a high level position at Cedar Point, doing so without a meaningful competition.

* When he acquired Paramount Parks, he drove out their senior management. with very few exceptions. Most of those who didn't leave voluntarily were shown the door.

* He was a micromanager extraordinaire.

* A direct quote: "I'm an operations guy, not a finance guy." Yet he made virtually every major financial decision for years.

* He stacked FUN's board with yes-men: his cronies and pals.

* He conducted a wide search for in house legal counsel, then selected his long time golfing buddy. The legal community...snickered.

...just to name a few...

[Browntggrr]

And among all his well detailed & opinionated "faults", somehow CF prospered.

I can think of another President who is blamed for everything, yet the country is not doing nearly as bad as some want to make it seem.

I can only hope those who take such time to detail the negatives, the positives are not forgotten. Let's face it, everything he did could not have been all bad nor that much different than others in the same position of power.

[The Interpreter]

And, consistently, the company paid large dividends to unitholders, many of whom depended on it. Until the Paramount Parks acquisition made that impossible.

I'd say his biggest mistake, by far, was drastically overpaying CBS for Paramount Parks, all because he wanted Kings Island so badly. You have to at least admire that a little bit.

[TombRaiderFTW]

I don't think Kinzel was the worst thing to ever happen to Cedar Fair; I think Cedar Point owes its worldwide fame to his leadership. I just really disliked his apparent "if it works at Cedar Point, it will always work anywhere else" mantra when it comes to just about every Cedar Fair park I've ever been to.

I used to cite the de-Paramounting of the former Paramount Parks as my reasoning for disliking Kinzel. To some selfish degree, I still do (if only because I still remember all of my disappointment with The Crypt), but I understand the reasons behind the removal of theming. Theming was not (and to a degree, still isn't, although Banshee is a BIG step in the right direction for me) Cedar Fair's thing. Especially back then, they did big rides that didn't need theming because they were tall or fast. So when they came into ownership of five parks who were moderately theming-focused, they did their best to keep things the same as they were before while avoiding a lawsuit or spending a fortune on the rights to use the old names. All things considered, they really didn't do too poorly with the conversion (although Tomb Raider: The Ride, whose entire experience almost completely relied on Paramount IP and theming, didn't fare too well... But truthfully, that ride was the exception.)

My primary frustration with Kinzel is the fact that the longer his Cedar Fair owned something that wasn't Cedar Point, the more trashcans and concrete and pavers and big rides with plain stations took the place of actual park atmosphere. Seriously, go to Michigan's Adventure or Worlds of Fun and visit all the treeless concrete. Or--while I do respect the fact that Diamondback was a great business decision--take a look at Diamondback's station compared to the former Swan Lake that was in its position. Or Intimidator 305's compared to the Congo African safari area it's located in. MA and WoF generally feel like the same park, down to the ride lineup and vanilla hyper-style coaster that doesn't do much (see Mamba and Shivering Timbers--both complete with simple, uninteresting stations.) I'll hold off judgement until I visit, but everything I've seen and read indicates that Dorney and Valleyfair aren't much different. I understand wanting to maybe standardize your park experience so people know a Cedar Fair park is a quality park (cough cough, Six Flags--compare SFA to SFGAdv to SFoT), but Kinzel took it to such an extreme that the parks started to feel homogeneous. They leave you feeling like you've just visited Cedar Point, except without any of the rides that you like at Cedar Point. I'm glad something changed before that feeling became too prominent at places like Kings Island, Kings Dominion, or Carowinds.

[KIfan73]

While this is a little off topic, it's not by much...think about how unique a place like Kings Island is. In what other business can you visit where past decisions by past management is on such display? How about being able to go see and ride things from 5 different decades? It would be like going into a Ford dealership that still had 70s, 80s, 90s, and 00s on the showroom. Or a McDonald's that still had it's 70s decor. I'm sure that what can be incredibly nostalgic for customers can be incredibly headache-inducing for the new management.

[Captain Picard]

On the forums 15 years ago I never seen one complaint about Mr. Kinzel that I can remember.

[shark6495]

So wait, Kinzel over paid for the PP because he really really wanted KI?

That sort of makes me think that KI may not have lasted long term if he stayed in power.....

[The Interpreter]

On the forums 15 years ago I never seen one complaint about Mr. Kinzel that I can remember.

15 years ago was 2ooo. There was no pkicentral yet. What there was was the newsgroup rec.roller-coaster on USENET. And there certainly WERE complaints about Mr. Kinzel there, including from those who had had the fortitude to make suggestions or criticize--and who were summarily dismissed.

[Captain Picard]

Probably PKI Guide at around that time. I think I remember the Terp was a member there.

[Sonofbeast2.0]

Kinzel I would classify as a lemon... He seems like he was quite bitter maybe even hidden and had a mindset for family and money first. Ouimet strikes me as a peach , a sweet man who wants to make sure the guests experience is a great one! He wants to bring a wow factor to the parks as well. Sure in the end it is all about money but he is taking a much better approach! Dining plans, upgraded food, returning of theming, showing shared love to other CF parks instead of just the biggest money makers, Fast Lane (it is a nice option if you only have a day at that park and would like to do everything, also doesn't add much to wait times). I'm perrty curtain I seen him at the park with his daughter(s) last year and he seemed really down to earth and he seemed happy! I feel like if you went up to him and said you are loving what he has done with the park(s) he would truly be happy to hear that, probably ask you whats your favorite park/ride, where as Kinzel might smile and say thank you and walk on. (kind of impression I would think he would give).

I think CF is moving away from money money money then guests to guests, park experience, then money.

[Thrill_Biscuit]

[rhyano]

Ouimet> Kinzel I like guest experinces better than money money.

[Outdoor Man]

So, since we're on the subject- what is the prevailing thought here as to why Kinzel pursued Geauga Lake? Some feel it was a vendetta and was always to close it. I can't swallow that logic; but some like to dig their heels in and hold to that.

[rhyano]

I feel it was to close it due to all he wanted was Cedar Point to succeed and money money money, what parks made the most rather than lets improve every park

[Captain Picard]

How much more than Six Flags did to improve that park would it have taken to make it work?

[shark6495]

And there was talk that Six Flags over extended that park. It is very possible that the park was on its last legs as a massive park before CF bought it.

However, I wouldn't call anyone a conspiracy nut if they believe that when the time came to either make GL a small amusement property or just a water park Kinzel took glee in having the park literally buldoZed....

My question/thought would be for the future of KI. If KI and CP were big competitors in OHio usually you don't buy your competition to make them stronger.

[Hendrick]

How much more than Six Flags did to improve that park would it have taken to make it work?

Geauga Lake had "worked" for years until Six Flags bought it. I've heard many people say that what Six Flags did to the park led it to its ultimate demise.

[BoddaH1994]

I mean, I get why locals are upset about the Geauga Lake thing, but as Kings Island fans you have to support it in a way. Why would you want a park that was draining on the parent company taking up resources that could be used for Kings Island?

I don't think that the Geagua Lake closure was a vindictive Kinzel thing. I think he had to make a touch decision, and given the circumstances he had, he made the right one.

[markr]

He was always so nice to me when I saw him. Although I only met him a few times, he always seemed to remember me.

[TTD-120-420]

And now to humanize this topic a bit...

I present to you a old photograph of Mr. Kinzel when he was celebrating his 2nd birthday.

This picture was in a Christmas card to me from my great grandmother. She is first cousins with Dick and his siblings, and is actually really close with his sister.

[Oldiesmann]

So you're very distant cousins (1st cousins 3 times removed according to Wolfram Alpha). Fun!

[Gordon Bombay]

So, since we're on the subject- what is the prevailing thought here as to why Kinzel pursued Geauga Lake? Some feel it was a vendetta and was always to close it. I can't swallow that logic; but some like to dig their heels in and hold to that.

I don't think it was a vendetta, so much as it was pretty much a win-win opportunity for Cedar Fair.

If you want to buy your competition and shut it down you do that, you don't buy them and try to pretend to keep it running just to make a show of things.

In terms of GL I saw it as this: The park clearly couldn't make a run at competing on a Cedar Point scale. CF bought it at a fire sale price and was able to remove the Six Flags threat in Ohio and keep any one else from contending with them. They then had a new park that had more than enough rides and attractions to suit itself. If things turned around and it made money: great. If it doesn't work: threat gone.

In the end, they kept the profitable side and removed any slot for competition to move in. It was a smart move, although a sad one for GL fans.

[jcgoble3]

So you're very distant cousins (1st cousins 3 times removed according to Wolfram Alpha). Fun!

You needed Wolfram|Alpha for that? I could have told you that myself without needing to look it up.

[Ride On_17]

I just posted this in the defunct park thread but it seems like it would be a better fit here.

A very sad but interesting read.

http://www.themeparktourist.com/features/20140824/28153/lost-geauga-lake-how-worlds-largest-six-flags-disappeared