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SonofBaconator

If Cedar Fair Could Purchase One More Park

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On 7/20/2020 at 10:34 PM, King Ding Dong said:

though something like Adventureland would probably be better Platinum sales.

Adventureland is offering free admission to Cedar Fair and Six Flags passholders for the last part of this season. https://twitter.com/PayneReports/status/1291504041789456386

Seems like a smart move to me; encourage out-of-town park fans to spend money in their park while maybe boosting interest if they ever decide to put themselves up for sale.

 

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11 minutes ago, malem said:

Adventureland is offering free admission to Cedar Fair and Six Flags passholders for the last part of this season. https://twitter.com/PayneReports/status/1291504041789456386

Seems like a smart move to me; encourage out-of-town park fans to spend money in their park while maybe boosting interest if they ever decide to put themselves up for sale.

 

Could be a great sales pitch -- "Look how many of your passholders are interested in visiting our park."  It'd be even better with in-park spending data related to those guests, though that'd be skewed by free admission.

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1 hour ago, jsus said:

Could be a great sales pitch -- "Look how many of your passholders are interested in visiting our park."  It'd be even better with in-park spending data related to those guests, though that'd be skewed by free admission.

Adventureland is right in Midwestern Six Flags and Cedar Fair territory with SFGA, SFSTL, Frontier City, Valleyfair, and Worlds of Fun not being too far away. I'd love to see the data when the season is over. I wonder how many small parks like them could benefit from a buyout, especially during times like these.

Upon further research Adventureland almost sits perfectly between Worlds of Fun and Valleyfair by around 3 hours give or take. Also all parks reside right by I-35 so that would be the main connecting highway which could be a good way to sell platinum passes. 

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On 8/7/2020 at 1:37 PM, coaster sally said:

That would be a huge investment.  Buy a park then move it.

Duh!!  Simply answering the question that was asked.    

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On 8/7/2020 at 12:46 PM, Terry said:

They should consider Elitch gardens in Denver , Colorado and relocate the park so they could eventually expand.  The current park is landlocked and in dire need of some TLC from a company that knows how to do Theme Parks.  

I was going to say the same thing... but mostly out of selfishness considering my proximity to Elitch Gardens now. The park has already moved once and with the development in that area they're going to be forced to move again eventually. There aren't many roller coasters in the state of Colorado, but there's a huge influx of people into the state

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1 hour ago, sk8coaster said:

I was going to say the same thing... but mostly out of selfishness considering my proximity to Elitch Gardens now. The park has already moved once and with the development in that area they're going to be forced to move again eventually.

That's why most amusement parks that are super close to cities don't do as well. I know nothing about Denver's geography but I'd say they have to be at least 5 miles away from the city to fully prosper. Land is typically more affordable and in greater supply outside of city limits.

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1 hour ago, NathanJamesPay1 said:

Kentucky Kingdom 

Kings Island NEEDS competition. If Kentucky Kingdom was owned by Cedar Fair, they would receive less investment and as a result of Kentucky Kingdom’s lack of investment, there would be no need for Kings Island to continue with large investments. Because of Kentucky Kingdom’s frequent investment, we are seeing Kings Island getting more investment as well I like it where it is now with Kings Island and Kentucky Kingdom competing for guests.

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5 hours ago, Rifleman said:

I doubt Six Flags would part with it, but I have always thought that Fiesta Texas would be a a great park for Cedar Fair to purchase.

I'm not an expert on Six Flags so take what I say with a grain of salt. I know they're not in the best financial shape yet I hear people say they're doing better than people give them credit for. All that being said, I don't know how they're going to look after this pandemic. 

I don't think any chain will be in the market to expand their park roster, however they might be given an opportunity that they can't pass up. As mentioned by @malem Adventureland has been offering free admission for Six Flags and Cedar Fair pass holders recently so they might be looking to sell in the future.

Going back to Six Flags, I don't know what parks they'd be willing to give up that Cedar Fair would want. Parks like St. Louis and Georgia aren't too far from Worlds of Fun and Carowinds but the overlap might hurt attendance. (St. Louis and Kansas City are about 5 hours away so the overlap might not be as bad as Charlotte and Atlanta.) You can also throw Discovery Kingdom in that overlap discussion.

To be honest, the parks that Cedar Fair would want would be the one's Six Flags would want to keep: Magic Mountain, Great Adventure, Great America, Mexico and Fiesta Texas. I don't see Cedar Fair having any interest in Six Flags America, La Ronde, Darien Lake, or Frontier City. Over Texas is a toss up but I don't see Six Flags wanting to get rid of their 1st park. 

The only park I could see both chains agreeing on would be Six Flags New England. The issue with acquiring any Six Flags property though would be the IPs. I'd argue any Six Flags park under Cedar Fair would look bad for the first few years because the transition from Warner Brothers to original IPs would take time; they'd pretty much have to start off with a blank slate and build off of the shell of an existing park.

All this being said I think Cedar Fair might be more interested in a park that doesn't have all the IP's; something that would be an easy transition for them where they could incorporate their brand seamlessly. Parks like Adventureland, Mt. Olympus, and Silverwood would be more up Cedar Fair's alley than any Six Flags park in my opinion. 

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^ Mt. Olympus would require a ton of money to bring that park to CF standards.  While I think a fuller fleshed park in the Dells would work, I'm not sure it would be worth it to them.

Adventureland is definitely one that I would have interest in them buying.  It is far enough way from their other parks not to be direct competition but close enough that they could sell more Platinum Passes to the WOF and VF crowd. 

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9 minutes ago, Rivertown Rider said:

Mt. Olympus would require a ton of money to bring that park to CF standards.

How so? I've never been and only know so much based off of YouTube videos and such

 

Side note I still think Adventureland would be a solid move.

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On Mt. Olympus.  It has four woodies, a small kiddie coaster, one flat, a bunch of go kart tracks and a water park.  There is really not much infrastructure and there are weird paths everywhere.  It is really a go kart/water park with coasters as opposed to a classic amusement park.

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On 8/17/2020 at 2:35 PM, SonofBaconator said:

 The only park I could see both chains agreeing on would be Six Flags New England. The issue with acquiring any Six Flags property though would be the IPs. I'd argue any Six Flags park under Cedar Fair would look bad for the first few years because the transition from Warner Brothers to original IPs would take time; they'd pretty much have to start off with a blank slate and build off of the shell of an existing park.

 

I disagree wholeheartedly. Did you ever visit the magical, totally-immersive, one-of-a-kind themed experience that was "Power City" at Geauga Lake?


image.png
 

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The location would be a bit awkward to work with, but what about Wild Adventures in Georgia on the Florida boarder?  They have a decent ride collection to work with at the very least. 

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On 8/18/2020 at 10:46 PM, silver2005 said:

The location would be a bit awkward to work with, but what about Wild Adventures in Georgia on the Florida boarder?  They have a decent ride collection to work with at the very least. 

Fun fact, they have the same Vekoma collection as Canada's Wonderland. I didn't know Herschend operated this park either. It seems like a cool park but they have animals which Cedar Fair doesn't really work with. 

If I'm Cedar Fair I'd try to look for parks that have a waterpark; a resort too if possible. I keep bringing up Adventureland because it could help the chain sell more platinum passes in the midwest while still collecting revenue from the park and the resort. I feel like people are more willing to buy platinum passes if they have more parks within a closer proximity to them. If I lived in Des Moines and found out I could go to Adventureland as well as Worlds of Fun and Valleyfair, I'd be a happy camper.

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17 hours ago, CorkscrewMcPuke said:

Action Park

class-action-park-2-2000.jpg

Speaking of, HBO Max will be streaming the documentary it did on Action Park (Class Action Park) beginning 8/27/20.  Should be an interesting watch! We had a park like that here in Indy (Thunder Island), which, while not nearly as dangerous, had, shall we say, not  the best safety record! Still, I went many times in my youth and the worst I got was a slightly skinned knee from the poorly constructed waterslides.

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1 minute ago, Gabe said:

Speaking of, HBO Max will be streaming the documentary it did on Action Park (Class Action Park) beginning 8/27/20.  Should be an interesting watch! We had a park like that here in Indy (Thunder Island), which, while not nearly as dangerous, had, shall we say, not  the best safety record! Still, I went many times in my youth and the worst I got was a slightly skinned knee from the poorly constructed waterslides.

The defunctland episode was great.

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7 hours ago, Gabe said:

We had a park like that here in Indy (Thunder Island), which, while not nearly as dangerous, had, shall we say, not  the best safety record! Still, I went many times in my youth and the worst I got was a slightly skinned knee from the poorly constructed waterslides.

Makes me think of the old Zoom Flume near Bloomington just off Lake Monroe. It's remarkable what people used to be able to get away with in the 20th century.

McJBVGO.jpg

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Something I've been given a lot of thought to these past few days. Throughout 2020 the general theme has been to socially distance. Hopefully when a proven vaccine becomes available people are going to want to go out and travel and experience their 1st real freedom in over a year; assuming things get back to normal in 2021 hopefully.

Acquiring a smaller park might encourage more travel. I already talked about how Adventureland would be a good test park for this since its in between Worlds of Fun and Valleyfair which could encourage more people to travel between parks. The 1st season they could get in with their regular season passes then at the end of the season they could be encouraged to upgrade to platinum for the next season. 

Aside from Adventureland I don't know what other smaller parks that Cedar Fair would want to try this with. Again the concept would be to acquire smaller parks that reside in between other properties to boost platinum passes. They could be really bold and put in a bid for Six Flags America to bridge the gap between Kings Dominion and Dorney Park but that would be a stretch since they'd be acquiring yet another under performing park and would most likely become another Geauga Lake.

In theory CF could purchase Scene 75 and operate both centers (which happen to be in Ohio). KI and CP pass holders could get certain discounts and the chain would still be making some money in the Ohio market during the winter months during the off-season 

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On 8/21/2020 at 10:24 PM, CorkscrewMcPuke said:

Makes me think of the old Zoom Flume near Bloomington just off Lake Monroe. It's remarkable what people used to be able to get away with in the 20th century.

McJBVGO.jpg

That reminds me of one of those slides (Snake River Rapids, I think it was?) hidden in the back of the Beach waterpark (but that looked to be in much better shape lol). Also, there was Hidden Rapids, where I remember frequently getting stuck in the non-slide parts of the attraction. Also, random tidbit: I remember they never let people pet the goats that where housed near Snake River Rapids and I always thought that was unusual...

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6 hours ago, SonofBaconator said:

Something I've been given a lot of thought to these past few days. Throughout 2020 the general theme has been to socially distance. Hopefully when a proven vaccine becomes available people are going to want to go out and travel and experience their 1st real freedom in over a year; assuming things get back to normal in 2021 hopefully.

Acquiring a smaller park might encourage more travel. I already talked about how Adventureland would be a good test park for this since its in between Worlds of Fun and Valleyfair which could encourage more people to travel between parks. The 1st season they could get in with their regular season passes then at the end of the season they could be encouraged to upgrade to platinum for the next season. 

Aside from Adventureland I don't know what other smaller parks that Cedar Fair would want to try this with. Again the concept would be to acquire smaller parks that reside in between other properties to boost platinum passes. They could be really bold and put in a bid for Six Flags America to bridge the gap between Kings Dominion and Dorney Park but that would be a stretch since they'd be acquiring yet another under performing park and would most likely become another Geauga Lake.

In theory CF could purchase Scene 75 and operate both centers (which happen to be in Ohio). KI and CP pass holders could get certain discounts and the chain would still be making some money in the Ohio market during the winter months during the off-season 

Bacon man what is seen 75

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On 8/21/2020 at 2:46 PM, Gabe said:

We had a park like that here in Indy (Thunder Island), which, while not nearly as dangerous, had, shall we say, not  the best safety record! Still, I went many times in my youth and the worst I got was a slightly skinned knee from the poorly constructed waterslides.

Thunder Island was the spot back in the day.  I can still hear their tv commercial in my head.  I never felt Thunder Island was dangerous, but I guess by today's standards it probably was.  Now, if you go back far enough in Indy to Boogie Mountain on the east side (21st and Shadeland), that place was dangerous by any standards.  The slides were concrete and you were supposed to use a mat, but every time I went I ended up with nasty scrapes all over.  It also attracted a pretty rough crowd, especially toward the end.  The last couple times I remember going there were fights, trash floating in the pools, kids wearing tighty whities instead of swimsuits, etc.  It made Thunder Island look like freaking Xanadu.  

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I did go to Boogie Mountain once, then swore off it! Once TI opened, that indeed was the spot for kids whose parents weren't so eager to drive 2 hours to what was then Water Works (or 16 year olds that didn't want to spend the gas $ to/from Cincy).  Over time, TI added batting cages, a (fairly sub par) mini golf course and (a pretty decent) tube slide, in addition to the Blue, Red and Orange body slides.  For a long time, it was all inclusive, but the last year or 2, they went to tiered pricing.  Between the cost of insurance and the owner's IRS troubles (he decided he didn't like paying taxes), that was the end..I drive by the old site on occasion on my way north.  You can still see a section of the (very faded) entrance sign, and the remnants of the gravel parking lot.  I know some urban explorers have gone back into the site through the overgrowth in the past to film, but given what's prob back there, you won't catch me doing that! I thought I noticed some excavating equipment clearing out the site though, this past weekend, so perhaps it's getting developed.

 

Wake up Indiana, Thunder Island's got the feel..

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A small but up and coming park that would be interesting for Cedar Fair to purchase would be Holiday World. Best water park by far in the Tri state area, but very much lacking in the coaster department, particularly steel roller coasters. Holiday World is consistently packed. A Carowinds like investment of 50-60 million dollars could take the park to the next level.

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3 hours ago, Tr0y said:

A small but up and coming park that would be interesting for Cedar Fair to purchase would be Holiday World. Best water park by far in the Tri state area, but very much lacking in the coaster department, particularly steel roller coasters. Holiday World is consistently packed. A Carowinds like investment of 50-60 million dollars could take the park to the next level.

Any corporation that would acquire Holiday World would no doubt in my mind ruin the park, and since Kings Island is within a couple hour driving distance, I don't think it would work out financially since you would be competing with yourself in that market, and would ultimately Geauga Lake that park. 

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