Gordon Bombay

I love how there's so many people in this thread who have come here to remind us how much they dislike a certain member's posts. Yet, they only post infrequently and if they do it's to: 1) Perpetuate their own inside jokes. or 2) Complain about the site. Hey, if you guys don't like the topic, don't post. Don't like a member's post? Say why respectively in regards to the topic or just ignore it. There's no need for constant "cryptic," overly sarcastic dead pan sarcasm coming from certain fans of The Beast (did you get the joke, guys?). Actually, if you think about his posts, they make a lot of sense. What has Beastfan26 contributed to KIC or any thread lately? Nice of you to stop by after all these years. Do you just come back around for attention? Discuss the topics at hand and if you're only here to bash other members or post your "woe is me, KIC sucks now" sarcasm, then go away and leave the site for others to enjoy.

Wasn't the condition assessed earlier? The only B&M item at Kentucky Kingdom in 2015 will be the footings remaining from when SF took Chang away. You'll be lucky if the park is even open by 2014 and even luckier if it's still operating just as a water park in 2015. So is Cincinnati! Is there a point to the crime and Heroin statements? First off, Cincinnati probably has a higher crime rate just based on population alone - especially taking into account the metro area. At the same time, Cincinnati doesn't seem to be having the same heroin issue that Louisville's media outlets continually report on in that fine city. And before you took a slight at the Queen City, there was a point to DieselTech's "crime and heroin" statements. Whether or not Cincinnati has a crime issue is irrelevant. Kings Island isn't in Cincinnati, it's about 20 miles north of the downtown core in an affluent suburb where the lawns are manicured, the sprawl and neighboring attractions are plentiful. Kentucky Kingdom is in downtown Louisville and perception is key. Personally, I love visiting Louisville just as much as I do visiting downtown Cincinnati. However, the area surrounding Kentucky Kingdom isn't known for the friendly neighbors. I remember picking my friend up who's repair business was within view of the Twisted Twins: "Hey Greg, ready for lunch?" - "Yeah, but first get your car off the street and park in our garage." Not to mention, Kentucky Kingdom wasn't really well known for its classy guests throughout the day and at the wrestling shows. Which begs another question as to why other parks would want midget wrestling?

Why would new paint make it more popular? Also, it was repainted not too long ago. Also, you don't know the associated maintenance costs, throughput capacity or any other factors that go into determining if keeping such an attraction is beneficial.

Are you really implying that there was foul play? Really?

So it seems they're meeting on the 24th to negotiate the lease, NOT sign one?

Ah, Surf Cincinnati's go cart track. That place was sweet!

Given Matt Eckert's leadership when the Russians invaded in 1984, I'd say he's a great choice!

Hey, gonna say this once: 1) This is a topic about Thunder Alley 2) Discuss Thunder Alley or don't post about anything else here. ...Yes, it's that simple.

The comments are laughable. I still don't know why (actually I do*) newspapers allow for online comments, especially ones linked with Facebook. The people commenting in that article are the same ones you'll see advocating for "the free market," while being angry that our free market allows for a CEO to make millions on the back of minimum wage, seasonal employees. Whether that's right or wrong is a discussion for another day, but didn't Richard "DICK" Kinzel make much, much, much more? *As idiots bicker over futile comments thinking that the newspapers gives two cents about their opinion, the views on the pages go up thus the views of the ads go up thus increasing revenue.

Wait, what? I think "water coaster" by the terms of that particular ride's manufacturer. They used to bill it as one back when it opened. I'm not up on my waterpark terminology, but I believe that ride uses the jets to push you up hills much like the more modern ones. Can anyone confirm? The "bright" idea is a strong representation that the place has been improved. It can even be seen from the highway, this kind of perception is key to The Beach. Also, I doubt it'll effect Soak City crowds, the two parks are vastly different and cater to different demographics.

This is awesome news, but let's just hope they're good ones. Anyone ride the scooters at Strcker's Grove lately? Yikes...

You do realize those construction materials aren't there to destroy Coney, right? The Racino will bring more taxable revenue to Hamilton Co. than CI could do in 10 years. Please strop trying to insinuate that this is an "either/or" situation. The construction of the Racino is not going to force Coney to close, all your thoughts on that are pure speculation.

Afraid of what happening? Those are actually all legitimate Don questions.

Don, are there any seats available in section 201? Spoiler alert: of course there are.

Why does the ECHL have so much paperwork?

Not to mention, doesn't the Army Core of Engineers have overall say of what gets built on the river?

Really? Because if I was running a group who submitted a bid to work for the state that was contingent on financing, I'd probably boast to them and the press that "the $$$ is already there."

Slow down, slick. Before they even discuss expansion on other land plots or the parking lot - they should probably have an amusement park that's up and running first. My point was, that it would be better to sell off that land and just use it for anything someone wanted to buy it for. I imagine that this mess of having to deal with the State Government, a fair board and constructing an elaborate lease isn't desirable to many potential operators. In fact, the situation is not a desirable one at all. The previous operator said goodbye even though this was a reliably profitable park for them, one that had a steady regular force of Season Pass sales. Why would anyone other than one guy be interested in it? The point is, others would be interested - if it had the potential to be a good, profitable decision. Clearly, many don't think it is. Hart believes it is, hence why he's the only one to submit a bid. Also keep in mind, while he is the same guy who turned it around the first time - he also turned it around and sold it off for huge sums of money to Six Flags, a brilliant decision on his end and regarding his history as an investor. The man is not interested in the park just to "save" it, he's interested in it because he has experience operating it before and sees potential to make money. Actually, I'd say I'm pretty accurate. Look at the rest of the industry. No one goes to B&M and says "here's briefcases full of cash we need a new coaster next year," and even if Hart did (with "money" as the driving factor as you say), it would take quite awhile to design a coaster for that park. Not to mention, you'd have to find qualified contractors who can build it, get approval from the local government, etc. B&M doesn't have a team of guys sitting around playing Roller Coaster Tycoon all day. They do have many projects each year and then also have to look at working on, improving and redesigning existing systems and creating new ones for their physical assets besides coasters. A B&M coaster is highly expensive, large investment that has a long time of quality engineering behind it. By all indications, even if a deal is reached, it wouldn't likely be until January 2013 at the rate things are moving. Even if a deal is announced on the first of the year in an ideal situation, two BIG, GLARING factors remain: - Hart's KKRC and his team will still have to negotiate a lease. - Hart's KKRC will still need to secure financing. And both of those factors are only if the state approves his proposal and selects Hart's KKRC as the chosen operator. Do you really think Hart has been in contacts with B&M to work out the specifics of a design at a park that may or may not open and when he doesn't have the money to back it up (spoiler alert: He hasn't). I highly doubt Ed Hart is paying B&M out of his own pocket to design an attraction specifically for the size, dimensions and limitations of a park that he doesn't even have a contract, lease or deal to operate yet. Not to mention, he's not negotiating for the permits needed from the local government when he doesn't even have the operation contract even in place yet. Even if all goes Hart's way, it takes several years to design, engineer and plan an attraction the size of B&M's designs for each specific park. There's no way a B&M is going to be open in that place in 2015, if it's even open. Clearly you're a big fan of Hart and the park with emotion invested, that's fine. However there's what you want to see happen, then there's what is really happening. Personally, I'd love to see that park return to its glory days and become something good for Louisville, it's a shame that it's just sitting there like it is now. But, there's a difference between Press Release fodder and reality. *Just to clarify: Hart never said that his company WOULD build a B&M coaster by 2015, but that was his intention. It's a press release people, not gospel truth.

^Good point. Not to mention, the governor in both articles only says that the state is only "close to negotiating a lease," NOT reach a deal. Or at least that's how I... interpreted ...it. Seems like a deal could still be far off and that they're still debating whether or not to even discuss a lease. Then again, Hart did say he'd accept the same deal the Koch's were given.

That article is a little inconclusive. "While talking to 84-WHAS radio Tuesday, the Governor said there was a deal to lease the vacant park to a Louisville development group." Yet no direct quote and Hart declines to comment. Then this is the only directly quoted statement from the Governor: "It's fair to say we are fairly close to negotiating a lease if we get there and the fair board approves the next step is for the bidder to come up with the financing for it." Seems like sloppy writing to me. Isn't that the same quote used earlier in the Business Insider article? Here's something to think about: If the Governor is all the sudden "excited" and Hart is refusing comment, is there another operator in the mix?

- What parts make sense to you and why? + There's a difference between what might happen and what you want to happen. - A new B&M coaster by 2015 is an absurd stretch. + Again, that may be what Hart wants or says he's going to do, but is it realistic? First off: No. A coaster of that size and from that manufacturer would require planning years in advance. I highly doubt that Ed Hart would've flown B&M in and paid them a ton of money to start designing something or even have them consult and estimate a new attraction at a park that he doesn't even technically have the legal ability to operate amusement rides in, especially one where the future is questionable. Diamondback opened at Kings Island in 2009. Evidence of construction was first seen in 2008. You know for sure that planning for such a ride would've occurred well before 2008. So, seriously here, do you really think Ed Hart has paid B&M to design any kind of ride so far in advance (when he's not even guaranteed to be operating the park) that it could be constructed and operating by 2015? We'll be lucky if this park is even opening or still standing by 2015.

If I had $200 for every development near Cincinnati in the past twenty years that talked about building a movie theatre, I'd have enough money to actually build one. Bowling Alley? That's a past time steadily declining in American society and one not typically associated with luxury entertainment and vacationing - unless it's ala "Star Lanes" in Newport. Keep in mind, that what they're proposing isn't a rival amusement park or experience similar to Coney Island. It's not like they'd cause Coney to go out of business due to competition. Could we hear who these sources are and do you have a link to the marina plans? I'd love to see those/hear more about that. I'd take their press releases with a grain of salt. This is a "racino," not a full scale casino or anything like seen in Las Vegas. Las Vegas has tons of entertainment options for multiple demographics. I doubt there's going to be consumer demand for a luxury hotel at a site where you can gamble on horses and play slots. Coney seems safe. I'd say the bigger issue is where do they plan to park all these people when they build on the existing lots?

If you read the PDF, then you didn't read all of it. Pages 25 & 26 address both the items you mentioned. First T2 - Two new trains at a cost of 2.2 million, and Thunder Run, rehab of current trains, costing 30k. http://www.kentuckykingdom.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/KKRC_ResponseOct2012w.pdf Thank you for the link, I apparently missed that. However, is this the same PDF we were talking about originally? I seem to remember one that was much longer and had a list laid out of all the estimation costs and where these estimates were sourced from - i.e. what vendor estimated the price? I'm seeing a vendor for the wave pool and water ride, but is there one for the rest of the rides? Also, does it state anywhere that these vendors specifically visited the site to make their estimations? I imagine refurbishing this for 30k (if that's accurate) is cheaper than buying a new train: One other thing, if anyone can answer it, Hart previously claimed in his last attempt that he had financing in place which would allow him to pay the lease rent and fund the park's operation, but wanted money from the Commonwealth to fund improvements and repairs. His original estimation was $50 Million then he dropped it to $20 Million. Now he claims he needs no taxpayer incentives, so who are these new investors? Personally I think Hart's numbers should have an asterisk by them. They're not necessarily lies, but you have to look at the full story: "KKRC will accept essentially the same lease terms that the state previously approved for the Holiday World investors. Including the jobs it will stimulate in the hospitality industry and construction trades, Kentucky Kingdom will produce, on average, 2,150 full-time jobs annually." Please be aware, that doesn't mean 2,150 full time positions at that small park. I seem to remember for a proposal for an American oil pipeline that considered the increased hours of a local burger king near where construction would be taking place as "full time jobs." I'm actually surprised a newspaper printed press release bullet points word for word without any kind of comment. I'm curious as to why Bashear is now "excited," when previously he seemed mum on Hart's proposal. Even so, let's say Hart does get a lease with the state, there's still the question of where his financing will come from, although he did have investors last time. I bet he'd pull a Holiday World - "well, yeah, we're gonna just do the water park at first." Keep in mind, his bullet points are referenced for being the ENTIRE park opening. The last operators to have a look, who have much more experience in the industry than Hart, jumped ship without even trying. Also, I don't remember the Koch's ever touting economic benefit numbers like this. I honestly wish the state would just sell off this land. This whole process is awful and it speaks volumes that there's only ONE guy interested in it.

*picardfacepalm.jpg

^And I would say even Holiday World agreed with the waterpark sentiment when they realized opening the ride's side wouldn't be worth their time initially if at all. I don't think Holiday World ever had intentions of owning the park and knew that wasn't going to happen. Why would the state sell off that land to them? They wouldn't to Hart initially, wouldn't to Six Flags and I doubt they'd do it to a new operator. They sit on the Fair Board firmly knowing they have a cushy deal: "We own the land and get a large cut, what's left is yours." Six Flags said "screw it" and left. Holiday World made it very clear and public that they were in lease negotiations, not ownership negotiations. They had a deal in place, only after they toured the park did their announcements about "ride experts" deeming it not a viable pursuit for them and they backed off the Lease deal. After going through Hart's estimates for some of the repairs, I'd think some of these are not at all accurate, inflated or grossly underestimated. Having been in the park, legally, myself and seen it with my own eyes. For T2 it makes no mention of needing new trains. Are they planning to repair the one in pieces in the station and scattered under the ride in the grass? Same with Thunder Run. You can't tell me that the train currently sitting on the track (and it has been for several years now), unprotected, not winterized, with most of its valuable parts stripped off is in any condition to run. I'd like to see the park succeed, I think it's beautiful little place. However, if it does - I bet it'll be a waterpark. These days though it looks like the state has had enough of Hart, the Fairboard and the mess the park situation has become. Gambling is the new tourist attraction, but is KY too late? Edit: On another note, to those thinking this is all very personal to Mr. Hart. I'm sure it is, but I don't think it's for the same reasons you do. I think it's personal on a political level to him, I think he feels burned at being rejected before and watching the state negotiate with Holiday World. Ed Hart is not Walt Disney. He didn't return to his beloved Bluegrass home in order to restore his "Kingdom." He's here because he sees a business opportunity, one he's familiar with and in a location where his name is known. If he plays his cards right - he looks like the hero and the politicians look like they want to keep the park closed. Maybe he ultimately believes he can turn the park around. But if he loved it so much in the first place, why did he sell it to Six Flags? Money. He's a businessman through and through. That's not an insult, more of a compliment. Like Mike Brown - people think the guy is downright evil, but the guy makes money, and a good lot of it.