medford

The average guest isn't following John Matterise either, nor watching the channel 9 news in general. The average guest won't be disappointed because the average guest won't even know that anything was done over the off season. The won't realize it before they ride, while they ride or after they ride; the average guest will look at their park map and wonder "what next". We are not the average guest.

Yes. And since I can't post 1 word responses, that is exactly why Snoopy is a great tie in. For the kids, the ones with $0 disposable income to shell out, the trade marks don't really matter all that much. By the time they are old enough to care what "looks cool" they'll have outgrown Planet Snoopy anyways and will be off riding the bigger rides around the parks. For the younger gneration, Snoopy is timeless, its on every Christmas, Halloween, Easter and perhaps a few other times. It has a recently released movie that was fantastic. Its seen on blimps, and TV commercials and all kinds of places that you don't think about. For a parent and grandparent, they're going to be much quicker to spend a little money on a t-shirt for junior with Snoopy on it, than on some Nick Character that they've never heard of, or perhaps don't let their kids watch. I mean, if they could get Disney Characters, that would be ideal, but since that is not going to happen, Snoopy and the Gang are the next best thing. Who else has a collection of characters that not only are relatable to kids today, but actually enjoyed by the parents and grandparents who bring them. Nick has what, Sponge Bob that is now old enough to be relatable to both kids and parents, but few grandparents have any real connection to Sponge Bob. All of Nick's other older characters are no longer relevant today. The only reason they have any sort of character tie in to their kids area is to generate more revenue thru the sale of merchandise that also includes those characters. My oldest, now 10, first recognized snoopy and the peanuts from going to Kings Island when he was 2, almost 3. Soon enough he'd spot one around town, either at a Mike's car wash, on the side of a blimp, Met Life add, etc... and would quickly blurt out Kings Island. This happened often enough that you begin to realize how many times, as an adult, you'd gloss over an add with the Peanuts on them. It works.

People will complain no matter what is announced. They could install the greatest coaster in the world that hands out $100 bills as you enter the station and somebody would complain... I can think of a handful of "holes" in KI's lineup, each park is going to have "holes" to one extent or another, as one of CF's larger parks, its "holes" are relatively small compared to many parks not only in the chain, but nationwide. For a long while, I thought the Giga was KI's most obvious hole, but once I rode Renegade up at Valley Fair, that type of coaster jumped to the top of my wish list. Needless to say, i was extremely pleased when Mystic Timbers was announced, and was not disappointed (other than the obvious over hype of the shed). Flying Coaster...with Firehawk's removal, that is an obvious hole. Even though B&M offers a model, I think the GP would be annoyed if you removed one ride, and put something that similar right back in its place. I don't sense much of a demand for this, on a scale of 1-10, I'd say 0. Giga... as stated numerous times on this site not to mention above, KI is the only large park in the chain (capable of going that high) with out one. On a scale of 1-10, I'll say this is a 9 Wild Mouse.. I think KI could use this family style attraction (don't think B&M offers a model), preferable if it had a 46" height limit (my only regret on Mysty is that its 48"). Would work well in Planet Snoopy, but with Mysty just added there isn't a huge need for a family coaster, and certainly not in the space the are about to open up, I'd say 0, but would love to see one long term in the next 10 years. Dive..I think this would work great in either The Vortex or Stunt coaster spaces. Despite popular opinion, I hope neither leave any time soon. Still, with the Pointe's being newish, I doubt KI sees on in the next 10 years, doesn't make much sense... I'll put this at a 3 Wing coaster... This would actually work quite well back in that space... I'll put this at a 5. Ground up RMC...other than the giga or nothing else, I think this would be extremely popular choice. I'd put this at a 7, but since the papers said B&M its more like a 0 (unless they fudged a bit). 4th dimension... just no, too long a wait for a park of KI's size. If they got ride of Invertigo, OK, I could see it, but not now. 0 Floorless... I've always envisioned Vortex's replacement to be a B&M floorless. If Vortex had hit the chopping block, this would be my odds on favorite...5 Water Coaster (or whatever they are called down in Santa Claus, IN)... Not going in on the dry side, but for a water park the size that KI has, I can't believe they haven't installed something like this. For 2020, I say 0, but like the wild mouse, i really hope they get one in the next 10 years (ie the next water park expansion/addition)

Water yes (or at least most likely, they could use a dry system, but I doubt that), however as mentioned above, its the waste that could be the issue. Still, my assumption is that there is some form of sanitary drainage back in those maintenance buildings. One doesn't do maintenance type things and not get their hands dirty, which requires at least a sink. However, to support a bathroom they may need a larger line, or the more likely problem is that they are at the extents of their sanitary line and expanding the system would require a lift system (ie pump) to bring the waste back up to grade so it can drain to gravity. All told, if there is a true demand for restrooms and/or a larger water/waste service back there, solutions can be found that wouldn't cost all that much compared to the cost of a big coaster install.

Valleyfair's length is perfectly acceptable, not too long, not too short, just the right amount of time for a kid to "drive" his parents around and want to hop on and do it again.

Refresh my memory, the road was too bumpy to get a good picture of the green intamin track.

Hmmm.... Got me thinking. I'm sure others lists are much, much longer.... but for me: King Cobra, SOB at Kings Island The Bob sled coaster and Wild Cat at Cedar Pointe Mantis and Mean Streak at CP (if you can count those) And now Firehawk. Not a very long list, perhaps there is another ride or two out there

Vortex or no Vortex, that path is still going to be used quite a bit to get to Coney from The Beast, Mystic Timbers and Planet Snoopy. Getting rid of The Vortex won't ease the foot traffic much IMHO

Uh, yes.... weather should be good this weekend, I'm sure they're hoping for an uptick in visitors for one last ride on ...... (stay tuned)

That sounds about right, I think when it extended back to where Zephyr is, the wait was about an hour IIRC. If all coasters ate people as efficiently as Vortex and Banshee, there would be 0 need for a fast pass. Someone once posted pictures on here of the symbols they painted on the blacktop to give you an idea of where the line for Vortex, The Beast and Flight Commander were.

Don't overthink this. KI has added a restaurant to Coney, and is adding a family attraction to Coney (not to mention sprucing up the lighting packages of several flats in recent seasons) Add in the B&M2020 project that was on the permit forms and all signs point to this happening in and around coney. Given age and/or maintenance issues, Firehawk and Vortex are the obvious choices. With DA alive area opening up the Que could be anywhere; doesn't have to be back in X-base and therefor doesn't have to be at a dead end. Or, they could re-purpose some of the maintence building and with the removal of DA, add in a loop that would connect X-base with the old DA cut thru of The Racer. At any rate, talk of them removing any ride (or I guess coaster now) outside of Coney isn't going to happen, not this season at least. While many bemoan the Stunt coaster, it fills a huge market for them in the smaller, not so scary family coaster; I doubt that is going away, so that leaves us The Racer (ain't happening), FoF, Vortex or Firehawk. My only note of Vortex is to ignore the "short" lines that machine is a people eater, always was. Even when the lines would extend past the start of the fence area next to the retaining wall, the lines always moved quickly. IIRC, the start of that fence meant you were only 15 min away from getting on the ride. Can't ride Vortex much anymore, but I'm a huge fan; I love Firehawk and FoF as well, Firehawk might be my favorite ride in the park, so no matter what, its a sad day in coaster world, but I can only imagine that 2020 is going to be well worth it.

May want to ask the Navy about that, though I'm sure they'd love for the Air Force to use their own recruiting budget to promote their program.

Route 76 at ValleyFair is a nice setup, goes under and around one of their big coasters (I believe its called wild thing, but its been a while), however it doesn't come close to matching what KI had with its two antiques when I was a kid. Sadly, I suspect those days are long gone as that ride(s) took up a ton of real estate.

Thanks for the correction. As others have said, Vortex is in need of a paint job, as is X-flight Firehawk which is showing its green undertone; don't know if Bynum painting does woodies, but there is plenty of steel in that area in need of some TLC

If B&M were to install a Giga (or any large scale coaster) for 2019, we'd see obvious progress by this point. Retracking The Racer, while needed would not drive new customers to the gate, neither would "tiques or a ferris wheel or similar flat. KI also had no big announcement for this year (not that one was needed with the Banshee still being "new" and Mystic being "new" to the average guest) so as a result, i suspect that attendance at KI was down this year. Now examine what they've done with their last 2 coaster installs: Banshee, they not only installed Banshee, but they rethemed and painted The Bat, while also painting the swing ride (forget its name), did they repaint Drop Zone as well?? I want to say yes, but i can't recall. They also installed the chicken place either at the same time or the year prior. Mystic Timbers, Potatoe works moved to a nice new building, and the que for WWC was great enhanced by bringing back the Vine Tunnels that so many remembered and loved from their youth. Last year a nice, new restaurant was added to Coney, also keep in mind its been several years since Coney has had anything added to it and its been a decade+ since anything major was added (if you want to included Firehawk as a Coney addition). By resprucing up The Racer, adding in "Tiques and perhaps another Flat (Ferris Wheel for the Zodiac reference is my guess) is a good way to kick off a huge Coney refresher, it gives guest a reason to ride The Racer not only once for the update, but again and again and again to watch the construction of the 2020 B&M project. It also gives you incentive to ride the Ferris Wheel again and again for an even better look at the 2020 construction. So, with all that said, and the clues they've sent out, my official guess would be an update to The Racer and a return to one half being backwards. Tiques going out in front of The Racer as diagrammed earlier (the DA area is way too hilly for Tiques), and a Ferris Wheel somewhere in the back. The "Tiques pick up some sort of Model T/Barn yard themeing (remember the teasers about letting it "out of the barn" as well as the "Sooveniers" which makes me think Moo...cows). I also think we get an obvious nod to a huge 2020 project the complement the 2019 additions, but they'll leave us hanging on what that huge addition is going to be, something they will officially announce this time next year, but with obvious signs that something huge is going in by the time next april comes around. It will be awesome, no matter what I'm sure, I'd love a set of 'Tiques for my kids to experience, my oldest love getting to drive my daughter and myself around in the 'Tiques installed at Valley Fair 3 or 4 years ago, now my daughter would be old enough to drive us around, not to mention my youngest son who was still in my wife's stomach on that trip to Valley Fair Even if there is no mention of a 2020 project or a large coaster, but you are dissapointed about the addition of 'tiques then you have no soul

Loop The Racer, retrack and add in a transition element so that the 2nd half of the ride is ridden backwards all while enhancing the timing aspect to ensure that a true "racing" element is brought back. Possibilities are great, "tiques, enterprise, ice show to the feshaus, SOB re-do, etc.... Of course of all those ideas, mine is the best (unless KI has something better they reveal tomorrow)

The first 3 park coaster, taking patrons from CP, to KI, to CW, and back to CP.

A couple of weeks while in the new Coney BBQ, someone points to The Racer and says to his friend "you know, that used to be the coaster at Coney Island, they tore it down and moved it here when the park opened" Sometimes you learn the darndest things at KI

First congrats. I don't know how to do it, but I'm pretty sure that you can figure out distances using Google Maps. Another option, assuming you have a smart phone is to down load something like Nike+run club (free, or there are many other apps that you can use to track your running, don't need a smart watch for it to work) hit start when you get to the front gate, or out of your car, or wherever, hit pause, then stop when you get to where you want to stop. If you look at your phone and think "I need more steps" take a turn and figure out a route that gets you the steps you want. For instance, my soon to be 10 year old kept saying that he wanted to go running with me. At first I told him "no, I'm going 4 miles today, plus up/down the big hill, that is far too much for you" but he kept insisting, saying that he'd do it. While he's a pretty good athlete, and has good speed for his size, distance running isn't his thing (at least it hasn't been to this point); he's gone with me in the past for short runs, but has "petered" out early. Anyhoo, I figure ok, I'll amend my route and go the 2 miler that I sometimes do, if I have to stop I'll stop and I can always get him back home, then go do "my thing". Anyways, he kept up for the most part, sometimes he'd get ahead and walk until I meet him, or he'd fall behind and start walking but would catch up in a few. He struggled to keep a steady pace, but he's managed alright, to the point where he wasn't a hindrance to my goals (actually my pace was a shade quicker with him yesterday). Anyhoo, to the point, as we were getting close to being back home and seeing that he was doing a good job, I shot down a couple of side streets that added another 0.6 miles to our run. I was able to adjust on the fly how far I wanted to go based upon what was happening. You'll be able to do likewise. For whatever its worth, I'm not sure if you can track steps if that is your goal thru the nike+ app (perhaps with the watch in sync) but you can track pace, distance, time, etc.. It will save them to your phone so that you can compare them the next time out. Enjoy. One word of advice, even though its a newborn, I was once told that my new born had to have shoes on to ride the carousel. I know why the policy is in place, but its not like that kid was getting up and walking anywhere for several months.... just make sure you have them with you in the stroller or however your transporting that newbie around.

You could slow it down with a different type of wheel I'd imagine (though I'm not sure how much you could alter the speed). Likely its the reason above, or just your perception. People have often said the same thing about The Beast, but somewhere there was a side by side comparison of an early (like 70's early) POV and a more recent one (I want to say in the last 5-10 years) and The Beast hit different markers on the track at very similar times in the POV.

If you have a season pass, and are flexible on the days/times you can go, you could always try to "risk" it on a day that looks potentially rainy. We went Wednesday night last week, rain was in the air, but the 2 main cells looked like they were going to pass one just north of KI, and other just south of KI. I figured it was going to rain a bit while we were there, but we weren't going to see any of the heavy rain, and it wasn't going to last more than an hour (assuming of course that the future radar was reasonably accurate, which is a big assumption). Not only did we avoid the big cells that was definitely in the area, we didn't get any rain at all on Wednesday at KI. Mystic Timbers was a walkon, with a couple of people marathoning it in the middle rows. My wife and son went to ride Diamondback sometime after 9:15 just after my son and I rode Mystic twice in a row, I told her the line looked short as we were walking back to Planet Snoopy and if she wanted to ride Diamondback twice (or more) with our son, I'd be good with the 2 youngest. They ended up riding Diamondback, Mystic and got to The Beast just a shade after 9:45 or whatever time they close down the line for fireworks and track clearing. She didn't want to wait that long, so they meet us back in Planet Snoopy for fireworks. If not for the fireworks, they could have been on Diamonback, Mystic and The Beast in under 30 minutes.

So you do care some then

That looks like it would work very well. But I do have to ask, why have that "walk" over all the way in the back; seems like it would be hard to patron to legally get back there

There are pros and Cons to using the SOB station. Pro...A throwback to the memory of SOB Con...Reminding people that SOB ever existed and its numerous issues Pro...Support Steel, roof, power, utilities are all there Con... While the station would certainly have to be retrofitted the money saved would be peanuts in comparison to the overall cost of a giga Pro... Lots of room to run behind Banshee (assuming you can get past Banshee and out to that free area from there) Con... perhaps too much foot traffic in that 1 spot, major congestion Pro... Que Line is largely in place Con... Said Que line has little to no themeing, something which thankfully they've hit heavy on with their recent additions. As mentioned in point 2, the station is a small chunk of the cost to build the coaster, and whatever retrofitting that needs to be done, will certainly offset some of those savings. I think primarily, its got to be location, location, location as the determining factor if they ever use that station again for a coaster (giga or otherwise) They can certainly put it the building to good use for other purposes if they so desired. Frankly, all signs point towards Coney/X-Base/Oktoberfest getting the next big thing, whenever that should be.

Is that tunnel wide enough for a Dive coaster? Perhaps its perspective, but it doesn't look wide enough for the long, 3 deep trains that I've seen on the B&M dive coasters, perhaps a narrower car dive coaster? I'm thinking something like Griffon would be too wide to pass thru that tunnel, or if not, it would provide some serious "chopper" effects.