disco2000

Great discussion, and glad to see we are at two pages and it hasn't really turned to personal attacks (yet, but let's hope not)! For those not in education, Goodyellowkorn182 has given in his spoiler post above a pretty realistic account of what a teacher deals with. Add on top of that SLO paperwork, and a bunch of other mandates that take time away from preparing lessons, and you have the life of a teacher. Like so many instances, the federal government that is here to help has managed to increase the problem. And it just isn't in education. Look at the now defunct (at least in southwest Ohio) air emission testing that you had to take your vehicle to in order to get renewed - it didn't improve air quality and is one of the few things that actually got rescinded. Look at your sewer bills increasing because the government is making wasterwater treatment plants meet almost unattainable permit limits (most that are already producing treated wastewater that is close to drinkable), when a single cow dropping manure in a creek as it walks through puts more contaminants into the creek that 10 years worth of treated wastewater. Same with all the fertilizer going on lawns and crops. We are spending billions to put extra treatment in place on an already effective treatment system, yet the cows can dump away and we can over-fertilize our yards to get them nice and green and that run-off collectively in one rain event is worse than a lifetime of treated water from the poop plant. The wrong source is being targeted for the fix. The same goes with education - as long as the government keeps coming up with common core and standardized testing and what not, they continue to target the wrong source. Teachers can only do so much. The government needs to be targeting the parents. So many parents do not care, and even if they do, they simply do not have the time, will power, or education to become involved with their child's education. And a lot of parents consider school as day care, so those that don't want to deal with their children in the summer are all for year round schooling. Let's face it, with so many dual-income families, something has to give. And the single parent has it even worse because there probably is zero disposable income left for tutoring, etc. Why punish the teachers for poor test scores. If Johnny is doing poorly in school, the parents pay more. And to all the single moms living off the government having kids by multiple partners (because well our current "hand-out" system pays more per kid), you lose that funding. That is a whole other topic, but when the system is set up that you can get government hand-outs that financially are better off than a minimum wage job, why wouldn't an uneducated, or possible drop-out, exploit that opportunity? Once you are able to hold the parents accountable, a lot will change. But we will probably never see that happen as politicians like to keep their comfy job, and let's face it, there are more parents out there that vote than there are teachers, so which one are they going to "cater" to? And to those saying "our test scores are not as well as other countries", I encourage you to go visit one of those countries for yourself and tell me if they are better off or are we. The child suicide rate is through the roof; you have to travel two-hours one way to go to work for low pay; cheating in school is more prevalent than here; your living conditions suck; but you supposedly can ace a math test. Next I encourage you to talk to students from one of these countries and ask them why they came to the USA to go to college - and have a real conversation with them and you will find out that they are "taught to the test" more than we could ever envision and in that respect, they do put teachers here to shame (if having the ability to teach to a test is the stick with which to measure a teacher!). Of course there are exceptions, but many of these students that come to the USA struggle with the idea of "having to think on their own" because they were not taught that. If they haven't seem an exact similar example, they are stuck. And this has nothing to do with a language barrier. That is the direction our education system is moving towards.

Hmm..could a topic not touched for 20 months suddenly being bumped by the ever-cryptic Terpy serve as a clue as to the future fate of such ride?

Surprised it took this long: https://movies.yahoo.com/news/seaworld-hit-lawsuit-over-failure-advise-blackfish-impact-144014912.html

We do not know the facts with certainty whether it was a policy change or a policy being more strictly enforced, but policy change or not, it doesn't matter whether someone rode it in the past or not and now is being told they cannot ride. Just because someone has visual evidence that they rode the ride doesn't mean they should have been allowed to in the first place and should thus be allowed this time - they could have been able to sneak on. I have seen parents at Woodstock Express get mad when an employee tells them their child is too small to ride and have watched said parent then pull out their cell phone showing photo proof that their little child had rode it - the employee still will not let them ride. That kid was unfortunately able to be overlooked last time and rode in error and like I said before, parent should just be glad that nothing happened to their kid (and KI should be as well if such child was hurt and was found to be below the height requirement we know the parent would file a lawsuit). The height requirement for that coaster hasn't changed since before such kid was even born (if the height requirement has even changed since its existence), so it isn't like it was a change in policy that doesn't allow them to now not ride. If you get pulled over on I-71 for speeding and tell the police officer "Well I speed everyday on this stretch of highway and here is a selfie proof of my speedometer" that doesn't make it right and doesn't mean the speed limit policy changed the day you got pulled over. You simply got caught. And if you said that to a police officer, you are probably getting a ticket instead of a warning! I don't know... That's another can of worms. If the rider was ejected from the ride or even had a heart attack during the course of the ride then they would have been, "checked out and deemed healthy or in good enough shape to ride" by the park's medical staff. That's just waiting for a legal or PR nightmare. Somewhat related - I have even seen attentive employees question a child's height, although they had a height bracelet indicating they are tall enough, and do a measurement in the station and if the kid isn't tall enough, they did not ride, even with the bracelet. Parent was ticked, but how does the employee not know that it wasn't a bracelet from an older sibling. If they didn't measure tall enough in the station, they do not ride. Simple. And the ride op should be given that authority as it is part of their responsibility anyway.

I hate when folks pull the "but he/she rode it last time", whether it be this type of situation or a kid that is denied a ride in Planet Snoopy because he isn't tall enough and the parent claims they rode it earlier in the day - if that truly happened then count yourself lucky that the employee missed the kid that time around AND that the kid returned safely. I saw a mom in line in front of me once and I could hear her trying to talk her son up that he would like the ride and it would be fun and other such things that I could tell that little kid had never been on the coaster before. I could tell he was too short and knew the employee would have him get out of the coaster for a measurement. Guess what, employee asks to measure the child and the mom pulls that "he just rode it" spiel - kid missed the measurement guide by 2 inches. She was flat out lying using the "he just rode it" spiel! Just because you rode it last time doesn't make it right or acceptable this time. Policies change and|or are more strictly enforced based on an incident, etc. Same goes with lots of things - I remember when folks could smoke in a shopping mall and grocery store; newborns would leave the hospital in a vehicle on the mom's lap; speed limit was 70mph; minimum drinking age was 19; etc. None of which is now legal in Ohio.

These stories always amaze me - and same family would probably be first to file a lawsuit if the kid flew off the ride. http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/attorney-kings-island-may-have-violated-federal-law-by-barring-boy-with-disabilities-from-rides I am all for ADA, etc., but sometimes you just cannot design for every scenario. I love the quote from the attorney: “The fact that this child has been able to perform an activity in the past without incident is strong evidence that he could continue to do so again in the future, safely.” So if I drive my vehicle on I-71 past KI doing 120mph without incident is that strong evidence I could continue to do so again in the future safely? (I have not done this and do not endorse speeding, just making a point)! And this quote: “They don't get to decide based on their view that he's not able to have control over his body,” she said. “People with disabilities can do things that everyone else does… and if Logan and his mom say he is able to maintain a position or control that’s necessary to ride those rides, that really should be the end of the story.” Will they then sign a legal form that says they will hold park harmless? I think not, and if they did and said boy was injured or killed, then they would claim they didn't know what they were signing. The industry is in a lose-lose situation when these events happen. And if parks were truly in violation of Federal Law, every ride and park as we know it would cease to exist.

Well since you are in a paying mood, making this site a paid site may prevent some of the funny-stuff that has happened lately as well I will let you pay for me...

Most parks (and golf courses among other things) have a lightning detector and have a policy with which if it is within X miles, it shuts down. A lot of places go with 10 miles, wouldn't be surprised if KI is 15 miles due to 3 structures at 300' tall.

Many of my visits to the park are early in the season and late in the season and Don doing that is nothing that he hasn't done before. Last year he did the hot dog thing, worked The Beast, and he and Greg were collecting parking money two years ago - and these are just events I have witnessed and remember. I seem to recall seeing him picking up trash and others things. All part of the job in a seasonal environment when the majority of employees are off in school.

Yet, KI posted on that same Facebook page, August 22nd "A sure sign that summer is almost over: Daily operation ends this Sunday." The person knew how to post a review, so obviously they knew how to check out a Facebook page....they apparently couldn't comprehend what daily operation ending that coming Sunday meant. I smell a troll. I smell a troll as well - go to any "seasonal"-type web page and you will see the same thing. Dollywood had a similar comment last week. Folks just jealous they cannot afford to go to the park, so they post something negative hoping to "hurt" the business or hoping that they are given some complimentary admission at a later date. Not saying it doesn't happen that someone drove someplace to find out it was closed, but I bet more times than not, posts on a Facebook page are false - I mean this person obviously knows how to use a computer!

since they read these forums, they may start checking now

check out this find: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTuKhw0Rpdg&list=UUW46Tj9GzEGn5lTuchJ0stg

and with that, next time you may be more inclined to leave the wallet of the delinquent who is not following the rules (siting on railing) alone and let them sweat it out when they realize it is gone!

or they dropped someone off and was driving and texting - in my unscientific study one day when I had to park out near the entrance and make that long walk, 3 out of 4 cars passed me in the lot driving and texting. Really!!! Drives me nuts.

I agree with you that the characters do get some attention, but nowhere near the attention the characters at parks in the Orlando area get (where some of those lines rival/exceed a wait for Diamondback). I have watched on many occasions where Snoopy is out in the Thriller jacket 10-15 minutes before the Flashback 80's show and not a single picture is taken with him. My point was from my experience, the current demographic/draw of a typical KI patron does not really appreciate the theming package, including characters, like you would see at a park in Orlando. Are there exceptions, of course, just like you will find someone that goes to an Orlando park just for the rides and not pay any attention to the whole theming experience. I have rode Banshee many times and have asked folks what they thought of the tombstones so I could interject that a couple of them are named after folks on a forum I belong to, and more times than not, the reply is "what tombstones?" They are there to ride rides. Look how many people don't even see the sign that says "no loose articles in line" and have to be stopped - most of these same people are also oblivious to the theming. It is not a knock on any park or patron, simply a well known observation/expectation that you will not get the same theme experience at a regional park like you would a Disney park. Would Banshee theming done by Disney be incredible - yes - and the same ride probably would have cost $100 million. Would that expenditure have drawn enough crowds to justify it at KI, probably not?

Personally, I think of KI as a season pass park (compared to other parks) that I think a lot of the theming is not appreciated by the guests that attend. I think back to the early Paramount days and the Star Trek and other characters walking around and you wouldn't see them get the same attention as characters at other parks. Not many guests would stop or even form a line to get their picture with them. And you cannot compare that to the lines for the Marvel characters that visited KI as that was a short-run duration. Other than enthusiasts, most of the folks I talk to look at Back Lot, Drop Tower, Invertigo, Bat, etc. as basically the same ride as when Paramount had the park, it is just a new name (can you believe that!). In other words, the theming was lost/not appreciated by them. Although I loved the whole Top Gun experience and felt a let down when it became Flight Deck, I think current Cedar Fair management can do a fine job with non-license theming elements (like Banshee) and invest what would be a license fee into other improvements. I don't think they would see the return investing Harry Potter-like money into an area, but then again Disney didn't think so either when they passed on the Harry Potter experience - wonder what Universal thinks about the investment?

I will bite on the Blue's Clues and say we are getting Blue Man Group maybe with a Cirque spin

For those of us concerned about Flash, are we not concerned that they are most likely using Flash when we purchase season pass at the park (unless you pay cash that is!)? After purchasing something one time (somewhere else) and saw that the kid working the computer that my card was entered into had some webpages open (including an email application), I decided that I would rather take my chances with my own computer knowing what sites I am going to, security on computer, etc., than to trust it with some kid that could easily steal the info or be looking at websites that may log keystrokes and company security didn't pick it up. Or I just pay cash now...

For those interested or too lazy to get to the KI website - RENEW a season pass before 11/2 and receive one Fast Lane Plus to be used on one Sunday in the fall of your choice (9/21, 9/28, 10/5, 10/12, 10/19, 10/26, 11/2), subject to availability. They also added bring a friend day for $14.99 for up to 4 friends on these Sundays (which would encourage Fast Lane purchases by your friends IF you cash in your perk that day). So, the good news is this should prevent the Fast Lane line being longer than the regular line since it is part of the daily max of Fast Lane's issued. Bad news is depending on when you go, if the quota is met before you get there, you may not receive such perk.

Unless they change it, it is only renewals that get the Fast Lane perk and not new passes (unless they change it). Instead of offering a discounted price for renewals, a renewal and a new purchase are the same price, but the renewal gets the Fast Lane perk. However, I do agree with with you that I am sure one of the goals of the offer/perk, in addition to driving more renewals early, is to increase Fast Lane sales next year by pass holders; however, IF the season pass holders DO overwhelm the Fast Lane queues with this offer this fall, then I believe it will cause more harm than good and just make the pass holder Fast Lane naysayer's even more vocal, and tick off the purchasers of Fast Lane on Sunday's in the fall if the Fast Lane queue is longer than the non-Fast Lane queue. At the end of the day, we have to assume that CF management played devil's advocate on this perk as we have been doing in this topic and either feel it will not be an issue or "rolled the dice" to see what happens. I do hope that come November 2nd, all of our concerns did not come to fruition and this was a great promotion to keep the parks profitable and sustainable.

Is attendance more important than revenue? Seems to be the case. Giving the gates away equals increase in attendance, but not necessarily in-park spending. Once upon a time folks would probably say something like "Wow I get in for $10, I ought to buy a meal/ice cream/etc. with the money left over" Those days are sadly gone. Mentality now is "$10 to get in and $15 for a meal, no way - lets go to the fastfood joint down the street". I am probably in the minority when I say "The season pass is such a great value that I will pay more for in-park food to support the park". I for one was a fan of Fun Perks and am a fan of the discounts given for having a pass - it shows the park that I contribute to per cap numbers and not one of the many who have spent nothing in the park other than the season pass purchase - those are the ones that really cause revenue to be down, especially at a season pass park like KI. And I am sure some on this forum fall in this category! Once the industry goes to attendance as the primary success factor = admission is free and pay per ride.

I agree with BoddaH1994 that the comments on here are not negative for the deal and are not looking/kicking a gift horse in the mouth, but rather pointing out a potential problem that may or may not present itself with such perk. I personally am all for "free stuff" as long as it doesn't devalue the experience/enjoyment for others - case in point the Share a Coke machine that was at KI where you could stand in line to get your name and a friend on the can - it was free and doesn't devalue my experience/enjoyment of Coca-Cola, but rather enhanced it. In this instance, I think the potential of a 2-hour Fast Lane queue full of free Fast Lane users due to season pass renewals will devalue the Fast Lane experience for those unfortunate that pay for it that day. I think the last thing the park/chain is interested in is a devaluing of the cash cow Fast Lane and this has the potential to do it! Again I hope these concerns expressed in this topic do not occur as it would be real shame for a "perk" to result in more harm than good. And again for the record, for me, I do not need incentives to renew my pass as the price is already reasonable for the opportunity and experiences it brings. Now I do realize some need the incentive to do so and I sincerely hope this one works and doesn't backfire, particularly with a huge season pass park like KI.

Some people don't have the extra cash to renew in the fall. I usually wait till I get my tax refund in February to renew my Platinum Pass. So it has nothing to do with wanting to spend more money it's just the way it is sometimes. Plus purchasing in the fall ensures we do not see another story on the news the following year about some kid who had a junior pass and grew and was asked to pay the difference for an adult pass! Many reasons why folks don't renew in the fall - available funds is high on the list; as would be not knowing if your interests would be the same the following year; maybe you are contemplating a job change or move; maybe you feel worn out of KI after visiting so many times this year; and then just plain ole procrastination! But if it waters down the Fast Lane line such that its line is of equal size or larger than the non-Fast Lane line, then it probably has done more harm than good. Inevitably there will be someone that didn't get to use the Fast Lane perk this year (either park met quota for day or every Sunday is horrible weather or something else) and then we will hear the complaints again. Just look at this forum or the park's Facebook page with complaints about the free food exclusive event at Soak City this year. Personally, I haven't bought Fast Lane and I am more in line with your thinking. Some of my best memories are standing in the long lines and talking with friends. However it is (well potentially was now!) nice to know that Sundays in fall could be the ride days due to lower crowds. With it being season pass holders, I can't see the per cap spending increase in the fall, but the perk may increase attendance. Personally, I think the price of the pass is incentive enough and all the perk needed to purchase. If they were to add anything, I would like to see them continue with items that will hopefully encourage in-park spending by pass holders, such as meal deals, discounts, etc.

According to one of the workers at the Carousel, it broke again but is being worked on - no date or anticipated schedule known though.

So, if you take the tweet literally, it says those that renew on Thursday get the Fast Lane Plus - is that offer only valid on a renewal this Thursday or is it valid if you renew anytime between then and the end of the operating season? And I do believe/agree the perk will cause more harm than good - it has been duly noted/witnessed/experienced by members on this forum that pass holders come out of the woodwork for "free stuff" - some of the longest waits of the season for Banshee was on exclusive ride time for pass holders; reported almost 2 hour lines for free food at Soak City event, etc. We may see the Fast Lane lines be longer than the general public line on Sundays in the fall! It will probably turn the pass holders that are not fans of Fast Lane into even bigger haters; and could potentially tick off those that do not have a pass that purchase a Fast Lane for a Sunday in the Fall and experience Fast Lane lines longer than the non-Fast Lane lines and cause them to never want to visit again as they would not see the advantage of a Fast Lane perk! We all know that even with a low attendance, folks still purchase Fast Lane. Take today for example - in many instances I would follow a Fast Lane person into the respective general public ride line and get on same train as them and even once ahead of them! Another problem I see - are the "free" Fast Lane Plus wristbands for renewals included in the allotted/supposed 20% cap of Fast Lane passes sold each day based on historical attendance numbers? If so, what happens if more than 20% of the pass holders wait until the last operating Sunday to redeem and are then denied the free perk. And if the free perk is not part of the 20% cap, then potentially you could see the abovementioned problems of a larger percentage of Fast Lane holders to non-holders. Now if the perk is only valid if the passes are renewed this Thursday, then I don't think it would be as big of a deal as I don't think the entire renewal population would even know about the renewal offer and even if they do, would probably procrastinate on it. But if the perk is extended to a renewal anytime between Thursday and the end of the season, look out!