disco2000

CP had international workers in 2019 when they gave away their gate in gold passes.....ask any of us, or look at the newspaper articles, at how horrendous the experience was with everything open and too many people there..... As I mentioned, part of the issue is with all the add-ons, people are staying in the park instead of going to the parking lot or hotel to eat. Let's say that averaged 5,000 people at any given hour that would have left the park but instead are now in food lines to use a meal plan and the lines can't accommodate that additional demand....and this also keeps people in the park longer cause "gotta get my value out of the meal plan" when in the past they may have got in the rides they wanted and the left for the day...or the folks that just stop by after work to get their free meal on meal plan and leave...most people didn't do that pre meal plan... Demand went up but supply didn't...econ 101 says prices go up when demand exceeds supply and yet CP (or CF for that matter) have maintained or lowered gate and food costs...

Land being seeded and strawed is not necessarily an indicator of how long a plot of land will sit vacant. Per stormwater regulations, any disturbed land that will be left idle for more than 21 days needs to be seeded and strawed, even if they plan on doing construction 25 days later...contractors complain all the time about that timeframe on active sites and have been known to occasionally move some dirt around to "loophole" that regulation LOL.

As does Dominion...

This isn't the first year they have closed early due to weather...it has been going on for a few years...many times recently they tweet out that rainy days are good days to visit the park as crowds are low....only to tweet out a few hours later they are closing early....

What I think they fail to recognize is that with all the pass add-ons, FL, etc., while bringing them additional revenue, also means that there is more demand for everything in the park than there was previously, if that makes any sense... Basically, before meal plans, a large number of people would leave the park and/or pack food and eat in the parking lot. Now with the economical add-ons or the $30 daily meal plan for a meal every 90min means that if they let 65,000 in, a larger number of that 65,000 guests are staying within the park gates riding, eating, shopping, etc. than say 10 years ago when folks would go back to their hotel or eat in the parking lot...and the current model ends up degrading the overall experience for everyone. The days when they could overprice the food to help balance supply/demand is tossed out the window now...in the past they recognized the higher prices for food would drive folks out to the parking lot, and they were ok with that because they knew they couldn't keep up with the demand if they offered dollar meal prices...but the demand has increased exponentially with meal plan offers without substantial improvements to the ability to handle it.

^this! The slightest blip of declining attendance will cause them to give away the gate like never seen before. At what point is a correction made and what is that correction? Is it increased pass costs? Is it truly capping daily attendance based on available staff? Or is it more of the same. Hey the gold pass at $99 brought in the guests, let's try $50. This has been their model moving forward for quite some time. What is the point of them requiring reservations if they then cannot balance the attendance to available staff?

If CP were smart they would not offer that again at CP....but we both know they will...

It will certainly be interesting to see how many pass renewals they get come August. Granted people always complain on social media and say they won't buy a pass again, but most do. Could this be the year were people say the value just isn't there anymore...too early to tell...but I think given how a park like CP ended last year and haven't seem to learn from it, I could see a mass exodus of pass holders for next year.

Given they did not open last year for regular season, let's hope you don't experience the long wait times you did at KI today multiplied by a lot!

Great pic! The joy and smiles and laughter (almost) make it worth the wait!

Until they close early like recent precedence has set the last few years...and even more so this year trying to save a nickel...

I hope I am wrong, but I think the daily attendance numbers this year will be significantly higher than what we have experienced pre-covid. Between passes rolling over to another year, new passes sold for this year, many people staying away last year, the fiasco happening up north at Cedar Point that will drive folks to KI instead, and all covid restrictions basically removed for this season, I foresee the park being way more busier than usual, even for a typically slower weekday. While a season attendance record may not be set due to reduced operating days, I do think that the per day average will set a record...

At some point people will say FLP is not worth the cost for hour long waits...and this was with the park doing reservations....what was the cap? And I assume that FL had to be cut off close to when they did for the regular line as well? And then cutting off the lines before park close... CP guests continue to get less rides in per visit. That will have a trickle down effect. Unfortunately for KI fans and regulars, the current operation of CP will turn all but the truest enthusiasts to come to KI for more ride times...thus increasing the attendance at KI and wait times for all...

@Kenban - I have heard of many that experienced that as well at CP as well. Did your friend say if they will skip CP this year? I experienced that as well in October 2019 with their gold pass offering idea and was a horrible guest experience. Even with FL it was ridiculous. I made the decision to not go to CP again and didn't last year and glad I skipped after hearing all the issues last year and not planning to this year...and yes I am sure someone will comment that is one less person in line now LOL. I would be willing to pay more for FL at CP if it was not 45 minute waits for FL. So I will either skip the park altogether or suck it up in general line LOL. But how much more I don't know LOL. But as long as people are still buying FL, they don't have any real incentive to improve the guest experience for those purchasing it.

I'm not complaining or irritated or angry LOL, just introducing some business aspect sides of this discussion why we may see a this versus that...my apologies as I just re-read your OP and see you said keep it to the guest perspective LOL. Well at least now we can point people to this thread as the unofficial definitive reason why from a guest and park perspective FL is here to stay! I agree we haven't seen anyone complaining on this thread about FL yet, but the thread has only been active for a day and the park hasn't opened yet to the GP, so I am cutting it off at the pass and being proactive rather than reactive LOL... Outside of KI, the other parks see a lot of foreign money come to the states (or Wonderland) to experience the parks and I assure you those people have no problem dropping down large sums of money to provide them with a personal experience. If park surveys were made public, I think we would all be surprised how many say they would rather pay more for a better overall experience...now how much that more is is a relative term. @JimParker85 stated he would be willing to pay more for a better experience, but I suspect that at some price point he would bail out as well...

But the finer points of product pricing certainly comes into play... What enters the equation as well with any publicly traded company are shareholders (or in CF's case unit holders) and attendance becomes a component of that. Many will argue that squeezing 10 more cents per cap along with a 3% increase in attendance is better optics than increased revenue on a declining attendance percentage. If attendance is going down year to year, then people instinctively will say "hey they are declining in attendance every year so the place must suck now so let's not go there" even if the park is making more money on less attendance. Contrast that to the privately owned Bengals that Mike Brown doesn't care whether a fan is in the stands or not because he still gets his share of the more lucrative TV revenue that is signed and sealed whether he spent big bucks on an O-line to protect Burrow last year or not... Certainly they could do the math and say if we up the FL price by $X dollars but only sell Y number and still make the same amount at the current price point and selling more of them to make it up on volume, they will lean towards the option that increases attendance. Because of the publicly traded aspect, the offering of FL is as much about increasing attendance as it is making money. Selling more FL at a cheaper price point brings more people thru the gate than a higher price point and less FL being sold. The FL offering in and of itself brings people with the money to come to the park and ability to pay for FL to improve their personal experience. These same people may otherwise skip going to a park without the FL offering... CF execs have said in the past that they are totally fine with CP's FL lines being 30-45 minutes long (and many here have experienced that). It means more people have come thru the gate. At some point, people will skip buying FL for a 45 minute wait in FL and maybe skip going to the park altogether and return when the FL prices increase to the point that they can then have a 5 minute wait...that is how someone wouldn't purchase a FL now but would purchase a FL if it were more expensive and made their personal experience better. I am sure there are many out there that would rather pay more for a personal better experience.

People will pay it regardless. Maybe it costs you out of it if they increase the costs, but to someone it won't. Just like there are people that cannot afford to go KI once a year, and many more that cannot afford a gold pass. Classic scenario of the have and have nots. Generally, those that cannot afford FL or don't want to spend that kind of cash do not like it and those that can afford it and purchase it like it. Around 2016 Disney started to raise rates exponentially and more frequently than annually as an attempt to lower attendance for crowd control..and up until Covid, they were still increasing attendance every year. The more expensive it gets, the more people assign an exclusivity to that experience. Disney attracted new visitors with the higher price point because these new visitors now associated the experience that they could afford that others now could not as a status symbol of their wealth. I could see that happen with FL here as well. Granted CF is not Disney, but there are people that will pay for it even at CF. CF could double FL prices and I think they could still sell the numbers they do now if they wanted to. It becomes an even bigger status symbol at that point and many in society will pay for that exclusivity. Basic human nature and supply and demand. It's the same across all aspects of our life, from the range of vehicle prices to 1-star to 5-star hotels and restaurants and everything in between. It's a status symbol. Even if they changed FL to you only got one ride on each ride per wrist band, there would be people that would then use up that wrist band and rip it off and then buy another one. Why - because they have the money to do so and will then brag about it to their social media channels... Heck, I know people that wanted to add another meal plan to their pass and the system doesn't allow that, so the person bought a second platinum pass with another meal plan, so now they have two platinum passes and two meal plans and two drink plans. It does provide another benefit as well... At some point someone will come here and complain about how unfair FL is and how expensive, etc., and that they will never visit the park again, but as long as people buy them and as long as they continue to have increased attendance, they are here to stay. Guess what, CF hears that argument all the time. It rears its ugly head on this forum every couple of years as well. Remember when they first introduced Fast Lane at KI as a test and people were posting here and on FaceBook that Cedar Fair will never get another dime of their money for being unfair and allowing people with money to have a better experience....most of those complaining ended up renewing. Some of them didn't renew the following year and sat out a year or two, but then got a pass again. And even a smaller few have held steady and haven't got a new pass. I know people in each category....That "never getting another dime of mine" complaint happens every year about Fast Lane or some other issue. So what was Cedar Fair's response to that test - they introduced season long Fast Lane the following year at KI and then later Fast Lane chain-wide and then later chain-wide season-long Fast Lane pass add-ons. Same thing happened with the meal plans. People complained about the lack of quality of food and the long lines and they would never buy another meal plan. Most sit out a year and then renew. The value is just too good. We see that argument here and on social media every year too. We will see posts of people on social media saying “because of this you are never getting another dime of my money”, but guess what, the reality is that as long as attendance increases every year and as long as the number of new passes sold are greater than the number of passes that do not renew, they will continue to sell them...they will always have incentives to entice new pass holders… As a business, they account for these losses of people not renewing. I personally thought all the complaining on social media about meal plans and Fast Lanes would have tipped the scales the other way and it didn’t…Maybe maxed out to capacity crowds everyday will, but probably not. Disney keeps raising their prices and keeps breaking attendance records… Look at the Bengals. Same thing. Their season pass holders have been complaining for years about the product put on the field and don’t renew, yet we still get the same promising 8-8 team or worse…Mike Brown is doing just fine in the bank account either way… At the end of the day, complaints and all, Kings Island provides a tremendous value for the dollar. A family can load their kids up with passes and meal and drink add-ons and drop them off to KI Daycare all summer for less than the cost of one week of day camp somewhere… When we have to worry is IF the scales tip the other way and they have more people staying away from the park because they felt the guest experience was not worth their time and money...at that point is when we see gate give-a-ways to increase attendance. And many of us remember some BAF free days under Paramount that were insanely crowded horrible guest experience days...

Even in 1979 prior to social media, a death at an amusement park would have made the news. I suspect someone is telling tales or mixing up the Eiffel Tower incident with The Beast.

Yep, there were many days The Beast line would be cut off well before park close and every queue was open and line was out past Larosa's when an employee would stand at the end of the line informing guests the line was closed... One has to wonder if Fast Lanes will be cut off when the regular line does or will that be open until it's line is "full" which at CP for some rides could be quite early...

Wow - Disney passes implementation across two parks is worse than Cedar Fair lol...cross-threading with people's experiences with platinum passes... although the issues have been getting better every year.

Wow....that was fast...

^Not true - historically it would appear they had an allocation for the fall purchases and then another allocation for those wishing to purchase in the spring as the park was opening up. Last year they allowed Fast Lane purchases after March 2020. There were 2 different windows that opened up after that time on KI's website. I know 12 people that purchased all season Fast Lane on KI's website on July 7, 2020...I know this because I saw the window open again and texted my friends that wanted them and I went back and looked at the date of the text. One immediately jumped in their car and drove to KI to purchase to only be told that they could only purchase online, so they bought it online while at KI standing next to the Fast Lane booth.

I understand that there are two types of Fast Lane season passes (park specific and platinum), but I am trying to warn people to read the fine print because based on the crowd restrictions, all of the Cedar Fair platinum pass season long Fast Lane allocation has been sold out (since early July) and until crowd restrictions are lifted, the only season long Fast Lane passes that will be sold are park specific and even with that KI has sold all of those too as has CP. Once Cedar Point opened last year, the platinum pass season long Fast Lane allocation was sold out chain wide and the $850 pass being sold at Cedar Point was only good at Cedar Point and many people bought it there to only find out it wasn't good at KI. Despite me warning them they were park specific, I know several people that were burned by this. Based on the crowd restrictions, Cedar Fair has sold all of the allocations of platinum season long Fast Lane and as of right now all that is being sold are park specific if they haven't met their allocation. Unless every park can open this year with no restrictions, I do not expect to see platinum season long Fast Lane passes being sold this year. That is why when passes went on sale for this year that you could not purchase platinum Fast Lane as an add on at any park. I am simply trying to warn people that because of the pandemic to read the fine print and not assume that if they can add a season long Fast Lane to their platinum pass from another park to make sure it is good chain wide. For example, I do not believe you would see platinum season long Fast Lane being sold at one park and not another - either the allocation is available and will be sold at every park or the allocation has been met and is not being sold anywhere.

Also keep in mind we are in a different time right now and as of now all the platinum pass season pass fastlanes are sold out. If capacity restrictions are lifted across the chain then we may see more open up. Read the fine print as well because at the end of last year Cedar Point was still selling season pass fastlane, but it was clearly marked in small print that it was only valid at Cedar Point even with a platinum pass. For parks that didn't open for the regular season, I would expect they would start the season selling Fast Lane for their respective park only regardless of the season pass you have. In fact Carowinds is selling Fast Lane now and the fine print states valid at Carowinds only. Of course this all changes with open capacity across the chain, but as it stands now, the platinum pass allocation is sold out.

^Actually, Canada's Wonderland had the covid screening tents up most of the summer and filled the wave pool and tested rides in anticipation of opening...but never got government approval... If KI were going to do a winter event, why would they have removed all the screening tents...and the social distancing markers (all the entrance ones and ones for shows were removed before park closed on the last day...), etc....