Kentucky Kingdom

[MDMC01]

(re: 5D theatre being the old Starchaser building) I never knew that; good to know.

Also, it's a shame that KK won't get a launch coaster; I think it would be fun to see a terrain hugging launch coaster (or an Inverted Impulse coaster) at the park.

[Tera Ryzing]

Money is the issue as well as the continued electric bill rate increases.  Mr. Hart is a smart man regardless of what that "interpreter" says.

[Vortex lover]

Ed Hart is talking it up to be the biggest investment in park history. He said that area by Skycatcher is being saved for something big and that the area had a height limit of 200ft+ and kinda winked. I also got to talk to Mark and he was saying that while the placement of Skycatcher makes no sense at the current moment. In 2019 it will be one of the most popular attractions in the park due to the new attraction. The 2019 coaster is also said to have a new area built alongside it and the entrance for this new area was to be around Skycatcher. Some things are also new in the 2018 season. The park switched over from Coke to Pepsi (The park now has Big Red  ) and there is a new eatery called Scoops that serves hand dipped Ice Cream Cones and some form of Cinnamon Bread. Himalaya also has a much more respectable height requirement of 48'' inches. (Down from the insane 60'' inches when Kentucky Kingdom first opened.) If you have any questions let me know!

[silver2005]

On 4/28/2018 at 10:47 AM, MDMC01 said:

(re: 5D theatre being the old Starchaser building) I never knew that; good to know.

Also, it's a shame that KK won't get a launch coaster; I think it would be fun to see a terrain hugging launch coaster (or an Inverted Impulse coaster) at the park.

KK has no hilly terrain, it's all flat.  

[Vortex lover]

1 minute ago, silver2005 said:

KK has no hilly terrain, it's all flat.  

The only thing close to a hill is the hill they made to cover up Chang's footers. (which is pretty much just a mound of dirt)

[silver2005]

^And the badly designed paths leading up to the equally badly designed bridge on the entrance side of the park. 

[Kenban]

12 hours ago, Vortex lover said:

Ed Hart is talking it up to be the biggest investment in park history. He said that area by Skycatcher is being saved for something big and that the area had a height limit of 200ft+ and kinda winked. I also got to talk to Mark and he was saying that while the placement of Skycatcher makes no sense at the current moment. In 2019 it will be one of the most popular attractions in the park due to the new attraction. The 2019 coaster is also said to have a new area built alongside it and the entrance for this new area was to be around Skycatcher. Some things are also new in the 2018 season. The park switched over from Coke to Pepsi (The park now has Big Red  ) and there is a new eatery called Scoops that serves hand dipped Ice Cream Cones and some form of Cinnamon Bread. Himalaya also has a much more respectable height requirement of 48'' inches. (Down from the insane 60'' inches when Kentucky Kingdom first opened.) If you have any questions let me know!

Looking at a satellite view, and going off my memory that basically means behind the picnic pavilions, and the water park.  There is an existing lot of some kind in this location, any idea what it is used for now?  Storage, overflow parking, employee parking?

I assume this means the long term goal is to expand the park into the lot behind the lazy river.  It would reconnect to the park around T3 or the amphitheater.  Does the park control this land already?

My concern is that for the next few years before that large of an expansion project can be built the park has a huge dead end.  Unless they plan to build out the whole path at once and lead it back around.  Also it completely would encircle the water park limiting its expansion potential.

[BeeastFarmer]

My understanding is that there is about 20 acres that the Fair Board has made available for expansion and it near the picnic pavilions and in between the water park and the hotel.  The height limit is 200-215 feet here, I think.  That is why the sky swing ride is placed there.  Also, from the end of this area (SW end, I think) over to the amphitheater and over to Storm Chaser--the Fair Board owns all this and is letting leases expire to  make the land available for future park expansion.  This would require the city to vacate the streets of Adair, E. Southern Heights Ave, Seneca, Sioux, Huron and Dakota.  Much of that is vacant land and I've been told that many of the businesses on Dakota were used by SIX when they operated the park, so likely they would expire sooner than later since new businesses moved in.  It would also be nice if they could get control of the small piece of land between Cheyenne and the parking entry gate, but I think that is privately owned.    Ed Hart said in a local newscast "live broadcast" that he based his placement of rides around the water park on Coney Island in NY.  

 

All that being said, besides a new coaster, I hope the park infills much more.  So much potential for this around Storm Chaser and Eye of the Storm.  I'm excited to see the new bird show in the amphitheater.

 

[Vortex lover]

6 hours ago, Kenban said:

Looking at a satellite view, and going off my memory that basically means behind the picnic pavilions, and the water park.  There is an existing lot of some kind in this location, any idea what it is used for now?  Storage, overflow parking, employee parking?

I assume this means the long term goal is to expand the park into the lot behind the lazy river.  It would reconnect to the park around T3 or the amphitheater.  Does the park control this land already?

My concern is that for the next few years before that large of an expansion project can be built the park has a huge dead end.  Unless they plan to build out the whole path at once and lead it back around.  Also it completely would encircle the water park limiting its expansion potential.

Im pretty sure the park has the option to expand into the parking lot (it's not used for anything besides a rare overflow day) The area marked in red is owned by the State Fair Board. And Kentucky Kingdom has first dibs on that land (They were talking about it to be used for the 2019 addition). The area outlined in blue the state fair board does not own. However, they are waiting for the current owner to move out and then they will buy the property immediately. Also what jtro said sounds really great and I hope it happens soon!

[jcgoble3]

49 minutes ago, Vortex lover said:

Im pretty sure the park has the option to expand into the parking lot (it's not used for anything besides a rare overflow day) The area marked in red is owned by the State Fair Board. And Kentucky Kingdom has first dibs on that land (They were talking about it to be used for the 2019 addition). The area outlined in blue the state fair board does not own. However, they are waiting for the current owner to move out and then they will buy the property immediately. Also what jtro said sounds really great and I hope it happens soon!

Note that while the area marked in red is indeed owned by the Fair Board and available to Kentucky Kingdom, it is unlikely to be used for much more than backstage buildings (maintenance, landscaping, etc.). This is because that area of the property is the closest to the airport across the highway (specifically the runway 17R final approach) and therefore has a very low height restriction (75 feet, IIRC). I was told this at the March 2017 Keys to the Kingdom tour.

[BeeastFarmer]

IIRC, the area that has the higher height limit is the vacant lot between the hotels (Manning Rd) and the waterpark.  It is used for staging now, I think.  If not, maybe it is up by the overflow parking lot to the right of the picnic pavilions.  If that is the case, the lift could go there with the smaller hills and ground hugging sections in the vacant lot between the hotels and the water park.

[jcgoble3]

The runway 17R approach line crosses Crittenden Dr. just west of the park at the intersection with Huron Ave. I would guess that height restrictions likely get higher the further east you go in the park, and the further north (but moreso to the east). The runway 17L approach line (on the east side of the airport) is probably not a significant concern for the park since it lines up with I-65, east of the entire fairgrounds property.

[Tera Ryzing]

Watch kk start taking a slice out of ki attendance.

[jcgoble3]

36 minutes ago, Tera Ryzing said:

Watch kk start taking a slice out of ki attendance.

That's not likely to happen, at least not on a scale that would seriously hurt KI. KK and KI may be physically close to each other, but they draw different audiences. KI draws people in for over a dozen big coasters, large flat rides, shows like Cirque, and such. KK is more of a family park with a bunch of small flats and a few coasters, but the waterpark is the main draw, very much like Holiday World (which I would say is KK's most direct competitor). Because of the height restrictions, it's difficult (but not impossible) for KK to build anything that can make a noticeable dent in KI's attendance, so I wouldn't count on it.

[Tera Ryzing]

Kk can prevent ki from growing at the clip that the brass expects though.

[silver2005]

^Are you rooting against KI on a KI fansite?
 
Have fun with that. 

[Tera Ryzing]

A hypercoaster at kk would have a negative affect on ki.

[dtk1378]

Last time SFKK tried to seriously compete with KI it didn't end too well for SFKK... oh wait, I mean KK.

[Maverick44]

KK has nothing and will never have any thing on KI.

[BeeastFarmer]

Deja vu...

Scroll back many pages and you might see these points:

CF would be  foolish to not pay attention to KK.  A very realistic 1000 Gold passes lost out of the market means $100,000.00 of lost revenue for CF/KI, based on a Gold pass price.  Add in Fuxpix, Meal plans, season drink passes, Blue Ice Cream cones, Preferred Parking, Christmas tree ornaments, funnel cakes, Slingshot rides, t-shirt sales etc.  A small amount of Kings Island's yearly revenue, but that revenue counts.

CF/KI execs either laugh at a threat or don't even know KK or HW exist.

KK reopens with Flying Scooters and a frog jumping ride and a major water park expansion.   KI installs Flying Scooters and Snoopys Space buggies one year and another year has a waterpark expansion.

KK opens a RMC coaster one year, the next year KI opens a CGI.

Happenstance or move-checkmate?

Myself, personally--I love having KK re-opened.  I do think CF/KI pays close attention to all competition because they are smart.  Competition is good in the industry.  Both parks seem to be making smart investments.  I think the future is bright for both.

[stashua123]

KK has nothing and will never have any thing on KI.

They certainly have a waayyyyyyy better waterpark imho.

Kk I think is starting to draw ki's attention but I don't think it's to the level of 1998 SFKK V KI.

[TheRickster]

I would do anything for KK and KI to be competitive, but I don't see it happening, at least not for a decade or more. KK would just need way to much growth. Does anyone know how Louisville is as far as median/average incomes etc? A BIG reason KI has so much success is because of it's direct location in such a upper middle-class area (Mason/West Chester) where things like season passes and days off work to actual go exist and thrive. I've always felt like KK was more of a traditional blue collar location that would struggle to sell passes and would just have the occasional every couple of year family visit, or visit during work picnics etc. Basically more like Americana used to be. So knowing how the location could support and make a park profitable enough to have the growth necessary is the big question.

I did some research...

For Comparison Median household incomes:

Mason: $83,466.

WC: $83,904

Louisville-Jefferson County--Elizabethtown--Scottsburg Kentucky metro area: $54,546.

Cincinnati: $48,900 (The Coney Island - Current Location move was a HUGE reason we have the park like it is today.)

[SonofBaconator]

I agree that not paying attention to KK would be a huge error. Though KK has stricter height restrictions and less land than KI, they can continue to add a diverse set of attractions. KK could add a dive coaster to their lineup- something that no park in a 100 mile radius has. The same could be said if they added a 4d freespin or any other unique coaster that KI lacks. Enthusiasts might have a different opinion on rides but Dive Coasters and Freespins are always GP eaters.

[BeeastFarmer]

According to city-data.com, the average median incomes for Louisville and Cincinnati are:

Louisville:  $38,005.00

Cincinnati:  $38509.00

 

I am not enough of a data cruncher to know if these are based on ZIP codes in the cities proper of the complete MSA's of the cities.  Cincinnati has a much larger MSA than Louisville however.  

I don't think KK can ever compete with KI on sheer scale, but I do think they can chip away at market share.  KI and CF would be prudent resource managers to pay attention and adjust accordingly.

[Tera Ryzing]

That was what I was saying.  Kk can take away ki's growth.  Shareholders wont like not seeing enough growth year over year.

[SonofBaconator]

10 minutes ago, jtro223 said:

According to city-data.com, the average median incomes for Louisville and Cincinnati are:

Louisville:  $38,005.00

Cincinnati:  $38509.00

 

I am not enough of a data cruncher to know if these are based on ZIP codes in the cities proper of the complete MSA's of the cities.  Cincinnati has a much larger MSA than Louisville however.  

I don't think KK can ever compete with KI on sheer scale, but I do think they can chip away at market share.  KI and CF would be prudent resource managers to pay attention and adjust accordingly.

I agree incomes play a huge role in park attendance. For example forget about the Ohio river flooding and imagine if Coney Island started to add more KK style roller coasters to their lineup- you would start to see more seasonal attenance for CI and slightly less attendance at KI. If a family can save a couple bucks to go to an amusement park thats cheaper, they generally will. Like what @jtro223said, KK will slowly chip away at KI's Kentucky market. 

Ed Hart wouldn't have returned to KK if he didn't see the potential the park had. I still see signs for KK all over Cincinnati

[Kenban]

Just because the attendance at one park goes up it does not mean the other park will see a decrease in attendance.  Honestly I doubt they have much of an effect on each other.

[Gannersdaddy]

I believe that KI / CF keeps an eye on KK.  Why would they not?  Do I think that KK poses some imminent threat to KI?  No.  

I would love to for KK to provide KI some more competition, as it would improve both places.  It sounds like they are trying, but have some obstacles to overcome.  How they will do this, we will see.

I agree that if they get some unique ride, attendance will spike.  How long that will last is unknown, but it will draw enthusiasts from all over and not just KI.

[BeeastFarmer]

I would do anything for KK and KI to be competitive, but I don't see it happening, at least not for a decade or more. KK would just need way to much growth. Does anyone know how Louisville is as far as median/average incomes etc? A BIG reason KI has so much success is because of it's direct location in such a upper middle-class area (Mason/West Chester) where things like season passes and days off work to actual go exist and thrive. I've always felt like KK was more of a traditional blue collar location that would struggle to sell passes and would just have the occasional every couple of year family visit, or visit during work picnics etc. Basically more like Americana used to be. So knowing how the location could support and make a park profitable enough to have the growth necessary is the big question.
I did some research...
For Comparison Median household incomes:
Mason: $83,466.
WC: $83,904
Louisville-Jefferson County--Elizabethtown--Scottsburg Kentucky metro area: $54,546.
Cincinnati: $48,900 (The Coney Island - Current Location move was a HUGE reason we have the park like it is today.)

But you are comparing a MSA to a city. (Mason Ohio to a large section of Kentucky. Etown is a fur piece from KK.). Also, a huge market for KK is Nashville which has a very high median income. Finally, KI draws daily tickets and season passes way beyond Mason and even Cincinnati. I have a platinum pass to the CF parks and a season pass to KK and I live much closer to KK, but I visit KI much more.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[SonofBaconator]

I don't think KK will overthrow KI at all, but when you're in any industry you have to keep a close eye on any potential competition.