Decoding 2020

[WoodVengeance]

I had a concept for a ground-up wooden RMC coaster that reused the old SOB station and went over the main entrance similar to Fury and GateKeeper. I was thinking it could go over 200 feet so Kings Island would reclaim the record for the tallest wooden coaster.

[CedarFairFan787]

3 minutes ago, WoodVengeance said:

I had a concept for a ground-up wooden RMC coaster that reused the old SOB station and went over the main entrance similar to Fury and GateKeeper. I was thinking it could go over 200 feet so Kings Island would reclaim the record for the tallest wooden coaster.

That would be very cool. Do you have pics, screenshots, or videos of it?

[FUN&ONLY!]

I love how this thread has already turned into another RMC Son of Beast discussion!

[corn4ahead]

1 hour ago, New Horizons said:

my only complaint with mystic is how short it is. other than that i could literally ride it all day.

That's why SV is the best ride in the world. It never let's up AND it's an incredibly long ride.

[WoodVengeance]

2 minutes ago, CedarFairFan787 said:

That would be very cool. Do you have pics, screenshots, or videos of it?

Right now, I don't have the concept of where it reuses the SOB station saved on this computer, but I have this alternate version that uses the land currently occupied by Invertigo/Congo Falls. I'll post the concept I had for the SOB station later if you guys want to see it.

[KI Guy]

Instead of Orion or Polaris how about Shooting Star?

That would be a great throwback especially since it's in the Coney Mall section.

Imagine a modern version of this signage with an LED shooting star! 

[Benjamin22]

I don’t know if a wooden rollercoaster would be the best for an entrance, all of the supports might be somewhat overwhelming. Even scaffolding steel supports would be somewhat overwhelming... if they do a from entrance coaster I’d want it to be a B&M which don’t have a ton of supports, look simplistic & look cool. Just my take on a front entrance coaster.  

[CedarFairFan787]

I would love a new coaster that interacts with a current coaster!

 

A front entrance coaster would be cool, too! I would like to have something different that a B&M. Don't get me wrong, I love me a B&M, but a Intiman would be great.

[ethancoaster]

Wow, this thread has gone wildly off topic. The quality of KIC seems to have dropped drastically since the last time I was active on here (3 years ago). What happened? 

[kirbias1]

2 hours ago, BSBMX said:

Dropping in images from mobile. IDK why on PC they drop in as links. 

How many feet between Levi's lift footers?

[sixohdieselrage]

8 minutes ago, ethancoaster said:

Wow, this thread has gone wildly off topic. The quality of KIC seems to have dropped drastically since the last time I was active on here (3 years ago). What happened? 

Hell, in the past two days it's gone downhill. 

Spoiler

I blame all the new people. 

  

[CedarFairFan787]

1 minute ago, sixohdieselrage said:

Hell, in the past two days it's gone downhill. 

  Reveal hidden contents

I blame all the new people. 

  

lol

[Sorner]

11 minutes ago, ethancoaster said:

Wow, this thread has gone wildly off topic. The quality of KIC seems to have dropped drastically since the last time I was active on here (3 years ago). What happened? 

How did it go off topic? Haha, everyone is trying to figure out the new coaster. I don’t get it?

[New Horizons]

4 minutes ago, Sorner said:

How did it go off topic? Haha, everyone is trying to figure out the new coaster. I don’t get it?

the past page i think has just been talk about an RMC. i guess its not decoding but i dont think its wildly off topic.

[CedarFairFan787]

Just now, New Horizons said:

the past page i think has just been talk about an RMC. i guess its not decoding but i dont think its wildly off topic.

Agreed

[BeastForever]

5 hours ago, kirbias1 said:

It is the fact that CF does not want to outdo CP and Carowinds.

This just does not make much sense to me. Carowinds is 7-8 hours away and situated in an almost entirely different market. How much overlap could there possibly be? How far away do parks have to be to avoid these so-called "proximity" issues?

A record-breaking B&M giga would perhaps carry as much notoriety as a record-breaking RMC in Steel Vengeance, but they would offer entirely different experiences...

5 hours ago, kirbias1 said:

Carowinds went bigger the year after DB opened in 2009 when they built their hyper coaster- Intimidator in 2010. Intimidator is higher and longer than DB. 

The difference between Intimidator and DB in height and length is negligible. Honestly, I find it a bit laughable to use that as an example of them "going bigger".

Intimidator is 2 ft taller and only 34 ft longer. Do you consider that as "one-upping"?

At the same time, DB has a 4 ft bigger drop, with a top speed of 80 mph, whereas Intimidator tops out at 75 mph. So if anything, it could be argued DB has the edge overall. Not to mention it consistently outranks Intimidator in a number of different polls/rating systems (and NOT just the Golden Tickets) : 1 , 2 , 3 , 4

5 hours ago, kirbias1 said:

When Banshee was built in 2014, it was a very good KI addition, but in 2015, Carowinds built the highest, fastest Giga in world- Fury 325.

So a giga just wasn't in the cards that year? After all, Carowinds already had a full-circuit, full-scale invert in Afterburn. KI was checking off a box that virtually every other major thrill park in the world had in some form.

5 hours ago, kirbias1 said:

In 2017 KI made yet another good, but not great addition IMO with Mystic Timbers. The following year CP opened Steel Vengeance, which IS a great addition.

And KI was coming off a $24 million coaster in 2014. So a relatively inexpensive GCI obviously would have made more sense.  CP was coming off a dive coaster from 2016, which while we don't know the exact cost, are generally are among the most inexpensive B&M models. (Griffon was $15.6 million, Sheikra $13.5 million).

I'm not denying that CP warrants more investment than KI, but I think the instances you're pointing out are largely just products of the rotation/timeline.

----

KI, as we know right now is getting what is probably $25-30 million coaster for 2020.

Meanwhile, all Cedar Point is likely to get in 2020 is some retro stuff/odes to the past. Nothing extravagant.

But the answer to as to why that is is simple: The timeline...

[befat]

14 hours ago, Thane Of Price Hill said:

The teaser campaign for Banshee started on opening day 2013. The teaser campaign for Mystic Timbers began on passholder preview night. 

Banshee and MT were announced under a different management team and under different circumstances. Every addition to the park is unique.

Industry trends have also been fluctuating on this. Universal broke the mold when they announced the Wizarding World of Harry Potter 2.5 years before opening. Diagon Alley was announced 1.5 years before opening. Hagrid’s coaster wasn’t officially announced until February of this year and it opens in June. I think they realized that people were deferring their vacations.

My guess is we’ll see a short teaser campaign to hype up an announcement in late summer.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

I'm guessing our teaser campaign should be similar to how Copperhead Strike was teased where different posters saying different things go up throughout the season. I also hope the announcement is on a public operating day where everyone can attend and not like Carowinds where they announce on a closed day and was just for the media.

[FirefighterENG44]

28 minutes ago, sixohdieselrage said:

Hell, in the past two days it's gone downhill. 

  Reveal hidden contents

I blame all the new people. 

  

My face every time I open my phone to KIC on this thread.  

[FUN&ONLY!]

7 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

I'm guessing our teaser campaign should be similar to how Copperhead Strike was teased where different posters saying different things go up throughout the season. I also hope the announcement is on a public operating day where everyone can attend and not like Carowinds where they announce on a closed day and was just for the media.

I have seen Carowinds new coaster announcements before (not in person), and they are consistently worse than Kings Island’s new coaster announcements... i mean, who had the idea to announce the coaster before the announcement video played? I think the coaster announcement is planned by the park themselves, and Kings Island has usually been pretty good with them...

It will be interesting, however, to see how Mike Koontz handles it because the 2020 coaster announcement will be the first coaster announcement with him involved as the previous ones had Greg Sheid...

I do not know if the Antique Autos announcement tells us much about what the event will look like other than that the public will most likely be invited to attend like in the past!

[kirbias1]

9 minutes ago, BeastForever said:

This just does not make much sense to me. Carowinds is 7-8 hours away and situated in an almost entirely different market. How much overlap could there possibly be? How far away do parks have to be to avoid these so-called "proximity" issues?

A record-breaking B&M giga would perhaps carry as much notoriety as a record-breaking RMC in Steel Vengeance, but they would offer entirely different experiences...

The difference between Intimidator and DB in height and length is negligible. Honestly, I find it a bit laughable to use that as an example of them "going bigger".

Intimidator is 2 ft taller and only 34 ft longer. Do you consider that as "one-upping"?

At the same time, DB has a 4 ft bigger drop, with a top speed of 80 mph, whereas Intimidator tops out at 75 mph. So if anything, it could be argued DB has the edge overall. Not to mention it consistently outranks Intimidator in a number of different polls/rating systems (and NOT just the Golden Tickets) : 1 , 2 , 3 , 4

So a giga just wasn't in the cards that year? After all, Carowinds already had a full-circuit, full-scale invert in Afterburn. KI was checking off a box that virtually every other major thrill park in the world had in some form.

And KI was coming off a $24 million coaster in 2014. So a relatively inexpensive GCI obviously would have made more sense.  CP was coming off a dive coaster from 2016, which while we don't know the exact cost, are generally are among the most inexpensive B&M models. (Griffon was $15.6 million, Sheikra $13.5 million).

I'm not denying that CP warrants more investment than KI, but I think the instances you've pointing out are largely just products of the rotation/timeline.

----

KI, as we know right now is getting what is probably $25-30 million coaster for 2020.

Meanwhile, all Cedar Point is likely to get in 2020 is some retro stuff/odes to the past. Nothing extravagant.

But the answer to as to why that is is simple: The timeline...

It's not just "the timeline" you speak of. It's the fact that management has said they want to invest more in the two aforementioned parks to keep CP what it's been, and to make Carowinds the thrill capital of the south. They have mentioned this on multiple occasions. Once again, I'll maintain what i've always said, KI will continue to receive very good additions from CF, they probably will not receive many record breaking attractions though. 

[Benjamin22]

7 minutes ago, kirbias1 said:

It's not just "the timeline" you speak of. It's the fact that management has said they want to invest more in the two aforementioned parks to keep CP what it's been, and to make Carowinds the thrill capital of the south. They have mentioned this on multiple occasions. Once again, I'll maintain what i've always said, KI will continue to receive very good additions from CF, they probably will not receive many record breaking attractions though. 

Yeah but Yukon Striker broke all of Valravns records.... I think CedarFair will have their rides break records due to the fact it’s much easier to market them that way. 

[BeastForever]

^^Correct. Its not just the timeline.

But how would something record-breaking at KI 7-8 hours north diminish Carowinds' title as the "thrill capital of the south?"

 

[AdventureExpress35]

1 hour ago, ethancoaster said:

Wow, this thread has gone wildly off topic. The quality of KIC seems to have dropped drastically since the last time I was active on here (3 years ago). What happened? 

The former SOB area behind Banshee, and what the park may put there, is related to this topic. One thing that doesn’t add much to the discussion is complaining.

[silver2005]

1 hour ago, ethancoaster said:

Wow, this thread has gone wildly off topic. The quality of KIC seems to have dropped drastically since the last time I was active on here (3 years ago). What happened? 

Every other decoding thread has veered off topic from time to time.   Sometimes people's individual logical progression and frame of reference will have that happen.  It's just how discussions happen.  

It also tends to lead to some occasional shennanigas, which are the parts of decoding threads I like. 

[kirbias1]

10 minutes ago, BeastForever said:

^^Correct. Its not just the timeline.

But how would something record-breaking at KI 7-8 hours north diminish Carowinds' title as the "thrill capital of the south?"

 

It wouldn't diminish Carowinds. It would diminish CP. Per capita spending at CP is higher than KI. CF wants CP to remain what it is, The Roller Coaster Capital, which gets people to go there from afar. Building something larger than Fury would take away from that. Unfortunately, KI is stuck in the middle. Don't get me wrong, KI is still one of the best parks in NA, but unfortunately it's just not in CF's game-plan to make KI into what it's trying to create with Carowinds and been doing with CP.

[BSBMX]

1 hour ago, kirbias1 said:

How many feet between Levi's lift footers?

Using Google maps, I get about 520' for Levi. Sounds a bit too close to what I measured on Fury, but there's definitely some potential there for error. 

[ldhudsonjr]

1 hour ago, kirbias1 said:

It wouldn't diminish Carowinds. It would diminish CP. Per capita spending at CP is higher than KI. CF wants CP to remain what it is, The Roller Coaster Capital, which gets people to go there from afar. Building something larger than Fury would take away from that. Unfortunately, KI is stuck in the middle. Don't get me wrong, KI is still one of the best parks in NA, but unfortunately it's just not in CF's game-plan to make KI into what it's trying to create with Carowinds and been doing with CP.

I really don't get this line of thinking. Cedar Fair owns BOTH parks. I really have a hard time imagining that part of their plan is to make certain parks worse than others. KI and CP will always have some attendance overlap, and I'd be willing to bet some years they draw from each other more than others. If anything, building up both parks with stellar lineups will help them to up sell to Platinum passes in our market.

It doesn't really make sense to me that they'd build a "meh" Gigga Coaster intentionally in order to keep Cedar Point where it is in people's minds. A Gigga is going to make Kings Island the star of next season in Ohio regardless. They can't adjust the "Gigga-ness" like a dial to try and reach the perfect level of luke-warm hype to keep Cedar Point on top.

At the end of the day, I think most of this hand-wringing about Kings Islands place in the chain is unwarranted. Kings Island is clearly a big part of the companies plans. It's in a perfect spot drawing from multiple city's and states, it still has plenty of room to expand in the future, and it's one of the most heavily attended parks in the chain. I don't think businesses think the way some of you seem to think they do. Cedar Point isn't going anywhere regardless of what they build at Kings Island, but Kings Island is CLEARLY being developed into something bigger than it was before IMO.

On the topic of the ride itself, there are a lot of assumptions being made here that I just don't think we're in a position to make yet. If the ride sucks, we'll revisit this and maybe I'll change my mind, but until we actually know the details of this ride, I don't think we're in a position to be talking about how it was built on a shoe-string budget, or it's intentionally the "WORST" Gigga or whatever.

[DustinTheNow]

1 hour ago, BSBMX said:

Using Google maps, I get about 520' for Levi. Sounds a bit too close to what I measured on Fury, but there's definitely some potential there for error. 

Keep in mind Leviathan’s lift angle is 38 degrees if I’m not mistaken. 

[KevM86]

It wouldn't diminish Carowinds. It would diminish CP. Per capita spending at CP is higher than KI. CF wants CP to remain what it is, The Roller Coaster Capital, which gets people to go there from afar. Building something larger than Fury would take away from that. Unfortunately, KI is stuck in the middle. Don't get me wrong, KI is still one of the best parks in NA, but unfortunately it's just not in CF's game-plan to make KI into what it's trying to create with Carowinds and been doing with CP.

True to an extent. I completely understand them wanting CP to remain what it is and ahead of KI in terms of coasters. At the same time, Cedar Fair gets my money no matter which Park I visit. I can say ( for me at least ) that if KI were to get a massive giga with a great layout, I would start going to KI every year while continuing to go to CP every year. On the other hand, if they get a lack luster giga, I would probably just skip out on going to KI at all and still just continue to go to Cedar Point. I guess what I'm saying is I'm going to Cedar Point every year no matter what like I always do. Kings Island on the other hand doesn't have what it needs to consistently draw me in.

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